Gotm24-Korea Pre-game Discussion

[Email10]

As stated before - a no-brainer settler factory, but I expect some tricky map features to be discovered later. Maybe with help from that wheat it's possible to get 2 settler factories. That would mean 20+ cities by 1000BC. If it's archipelago which I strongly suspect it can be hard to fit 20 cities. I will probably go for lots of cities with about distance 3, like in GotM23. I'm thinking of moving over to Predator class and will try to follow the medal goal.

 

[Megalou]

Diplomatic awareness will be crucial and rather difficult. I am playing an archipelago deity game right now with a very tough tech pace. I managed to get Theory of Evolution but have been forced to break almost every type of deal in the game. (I think "alliance" is the only type I haven't broken.)

With 10 opponents and a hard tech-pace, we may have to fling other civs into wars in order to slow down their pace, but the more MPP:s and alliances we enter into, the bigger is the risk of a damaged rep. I think I will pick out one or two pet-civs and then try to eliminate as many others as I can.

One question is whether it's good or bad to earn techs by trading MPPs and Alliances all over the place. To get diplo victory, maybe one key is to not break MPPs until it's time for the UN vote.

This feels like a 70-hours-venture.

 

[MadScot]

One thing comes to mind, though I'm no expert on the diplo thing. There more AIs are left when the vote is called, the more complex it may be. Reduce it to Korea plus 2 others, say, and all we need do is manipulate the other civ. Arranging our 'pet civ' to be at war with the only rival won't be too hard, surely.

If you go down that route, rep is hardly a major concern (outside the normal trade concerns) since they'll be our war allies when the vote comes.

If they have the gall to abstain, well, who needs the UN anyway

 

[The Moose]

Somehow I'm tempted to move the settler East. After the expansion, the 2 wool luxuries will be within the city limits and enough for a settler factory. A 2nd factory could then be built on the coast.

The reason why I'm considering this is that I don't like my capitol on the coast due to increasing corruption if you can only build in one direction. I'd rather have my capitol somewhere in or near the middle......

Anyway, my worker will go North and then I'll decide

 

[Sylock]

First a few questions about what we see on the map there.

1) N, NW, NW. The tile looks like it will be a plains. It's obviously coastal, but the question is will it benifit from the river?
2) What does wool give? I've played a few GotM for fun, never submitted and I don't remember. I'm also at work and won't be able to look for a day or so. What bonuses will it give F/S/C?

Well, you have to be _really_ careful about your GA. It's very easy to start one around 900 BC with Korea. I always get the Great Library if for no other reason than to make sure another civ doesn't get it. If we are isolated and/or there are civs outside our starting continent then the Great Lighthouse will be very important. Well, those two give us our GA. That would happen at the exact time that Republic/Monarchy should be learned. Now if we can time it so that Republic/Monarchy is not only learned, but has been switched to, then we can go through a huge MA growth spurt producing mega tech and some troups for an early MA civ anialation or two. All while all other civs are in Despot, we are in a Republic governed GA. This will be my goal. That's my overall goal for the AA. Republic in 900 BC.

Starting position is good. But I'm leaning on moving to the E. I'm assuming that wool will give a +1 food, +1 shield, +1 gold. I'm also assuming that the answer to question 1 is that the tile will benefit from the river and I plan on that being my second city. Thus getting a RCP of 4-4.5, and a second ring at 9. I think that we are on a penisula and that tile is where it meets the 'main land'. Further I think that the area will be a land rush and since I don't want a war until _after_ I've learned Republic, I want to get my cities out there fast. I don't think there will be anyone to the South of us.

Research will be on full blown while I'm out hunting barbs with my warrior and trying to make contacts. Writing, Map Making, Lit. Then whatever I need that the AI's haven't learned in order to get Republic.

 

[scubagtr]

I'm thinking of moving my settler NW, which will keep me on the river and bring the wheat into my radius.

 

[AlanH]

The GOTM24 Incremental installer for Mac OS X 10.2 is now available via the link in my signature.

[Edit]There are now two Mac Incremental installer options. One adds the basic Gotm24 file set, the other adds the full set with the graphics options. As the second one is almost 10 MBytes, Mac players with low bandwidth connections may prefer to use the first one (6.3 MBytes) and miss out on the prettier units.

 

[Megalou]

Originally posted by MadScot
Arranging our 'pet civ' to be at war with the only rival won't be too hard, surely.

If you go down that route, rep is hardly a major concern (outside the normal trade concerns) since they'll be our war allies when the vote comes.

Just remember that MPPs will be expensive to sign if you have broken MPPs in the past, even if your treaty violation has not affected the pet civ itself. (I'm sure you will remember, being a more successful GOTM-player than me so far. )

scubagtr,
I will not move the settler. The wheat will be valuable for a second city too, if we want a good prebuild.

 

[killerloop]

Does anyone have experience how to use the Hwach'a unit to the best benefit?

Oops, wrong forum I guess, should have asked this in the speculation thread.

This is an appropriate question to ask here.

For reference, once you visit this thread you cannot go back an speculate about what the game may be because by then the proverbial gato is out of el bago. - cracker

 

[ControlFreak]

I think I may move 1 W. As others have said that will require a duct to be built if I want the capital to get above size 6. But as so many have written, the capital (and probably the second city too) will be a settler factory. Since this site can be a 4-6-4 settler factory I don't need the river or the aquaduct. On the large map, I suspect that I will always be building a settler or worker from the captial so the only improvement it will get is granary and it will never be larger than size 6.

Depending on the rest of the area the second city will use the wheat in some way. Note that in depotism there won't be two 4-turn settler factories unless there is more food bonuses to the N (not likely).

I am suspecting this is a several continents map. Water movement will definitely be important as indicated by the altered movement ON. I loved this feature in GOTM22 (accidently left on for PTW) I hope to make good use of it and might focus on building the G.Lighthouse.

I plan to research as quickly as I can, first to MapMaking. I would love to eliminate some civs but will not be a priority because that takes to long RL time. My score will suffer but I really want a chance at submitting a GOTM this month.

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by ControlFreak
I am suspecting this is a several continents map. Water movement will definitely be important as indicated by the altered movement ON.

GOTM#23 on pangea had this on. I don't think this tells us much about the game.

================

Initial thoughts:
1) I am way out of sync with Cracker - my guess under speculation was nowhere close to what we got.

2) No reason to move the settler. This time the settler factory is quite clear. I don't even need to wait for the fog busters to see this fact.

3) I am debating between 40-turn on writing or pottery. I need to see F10 to guess. Our historical neighbors of Japan and China can't help. If Russia is in the game - writing, else I don't feel safe hoping to get pottery before I need my granary.

4) Early contact and getting some foreign workers and early trading will be key. I plan to build at least 3 exploring warriors, if not 4, for the large map.

5) We have a good luxury situation already for potential trading. I want to find a good site for a harbor to take advantage of the wool.

 

[cracker]

Just a reminder about the setup and download files.

The files are large this month because of the number of unit animations and leaderhead/Civ Identity graphics.

For the Civ3v1.29 version of the game you must download and install the base setup files first. Currently the Add-on packages are verified and functional for both Mac and PC and these add-on packages must be added to a working version of the Gotm21 (or Gotm22 or Gotm23) Setup.

We are working on bypassing the file interrupts so that we can get the full download options available for new players who may have never played a GOTM before but who would like to play this Gotm24 on Civ3v1.29. Be patient with us as we get the solution verified.

Additonal Optional Unit Graphics
AFTER you get the base setup installed, then you have an optional unit graphics package that I would recommend that you download and install over the top of your basic Gotm24 setup. These optional unit graphics just overide some of the simple bypass files that have used graphics in the basic setup for multiple puposes. By using the optional added graphics you will just get to see a little bit more variety in the units that you will hopefully encounter. The graphics do not change gameplay.

Here is a great image courtesy of Kinboat to give you a perspective of how some of these added unit graphics will expand your enjoyment of this unique GOTM game experience:

Some of these units are included in the base game setup, but here are the direct links to the supplimental files to make sure you get the full experience:

Auto installing supplimental unit graphics for PC
Manual Files in a zip for older Mac OS versions

 

[rabies]

Diplomacy....ugh....hard to be the Diplomat when you have a 100 cavalry taking over the world. I am unsure if I will persue the tourney victory conditions this time, or go for a high GOTM score. Although I do remember Sir Pleb's great victory in GOTM 18...and I'll look to see if I can emulate that here and pull off a high scoring Diplo victory.

The units above look great..I can't wait to see them in action.

I plan to build exactly 1 Hwa'cha just to see what it looks like. I have never played Korea before, so I have never seen it...however, looking over the stats, I doubt severely I will use it....who needs a UU that cannot trigger a GA? ...and who needs artillery anyway..they just slow things down? bleah.

 

[cracker]

Originally posted by rabies
I plan to build exactly 1 Hwa'cha just to see what it looks like.

I enjoy the looking at the Hwach'a fire as well. I particularly like the way the little man stands behind the thing when he lights the fuse and fires off all the rockets. Each Hwach'a unit must have had a hard time getting volunteers to be the guy with the match. It sounds like a short life expectancy, one-time use sort of job. Sort of like the artillery man's version of the Kamikaze or Human Cannonball.

The unit substitute for the Hwach'a in the Civ3v1.29 version is the Seige Cannon.

Here is a link to thread showing preview images of the seige cannon by aaglo:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52530&highlight=siege+cannon

We have implemented a slight change that should allow you to capture cannons and upgrade them to Hwach'a or Seige Cannons instead of having them just blow up in your face. Any Civilization that can make gunpowder for muskets and rockets would certainly have the technology to load an fire a cannon.

 

[kryszcztov]

A little deeper in my thoughts...

This starting position is an EXCELLENT position for a settler factory ! Almost never seen such a good one actually. It even seems that with the 3 wool tiles irrigated and another plains tile as well, we can set up the capital as a 4-turn settler factory from size 3 only. Incredible ! I'm almost sure I'll settle right away, then move the worker SW, irrigate-road, then SW, ditto, then to the last wool tile, ditto (even though the bonus gold from the road won't be added (despotism)). Well, you got the beginning of my log here. In any city (PTW) you have 2 food in the city tile (no less, no more). And I'm almost sure we can irrigate through hilly cities (PTW).

@ King Of America & ControlFreak : Moving to the west is bad IMHO. The only advantage is to be on the coast. Could be the 2nd city, I say... You don't only have to build an aqueduct, but also you miss several river tiles.

@ scubagtr : I think moving 1 tile NW is a mistake IMHO. The only thing you win is a wheat tile, yet overpowered by the wool tiles. In despotism, you don't need +6 food tiles if you can't have +7, which seems the case here (a few tiles are hidden, but it's almost sure there aren't more bonus food tiles here). This is because you won't get any benefit in mining the wool tiles, so you'll irrigate them obviously. And thus the wheat won't add any clear benefit to your capital. But more importantly, you'll lose 1 turn, lose your hilly position, lose some river tiles, and gain some half-useless coast tiles (unimprovable without a harbour).

I'll add that going to NW or W will lose some hills anf forest for the capital... and there is already "enough" gold to get from the river and the wool.

Raging barbs, so cities on hills are nice.

As for the wheat, well that's a nice tile, but it's not what will turn a possible 2nd city into a settler factory. I don't need more than ONE 4-turn settler factory, the settler pace is already too high to keep up with military defense for new cities.

@ Sylock : From my experience, I think the tile N-NW-NW won't have access to the river. What the new bonus resources give, you can check it over the GOTM21 page, I think. Anyway, cracker provided us with a picture where you can see what they give, just look at those green, blue and yellow stuff next the sheep icon on the map : wool is F/S/C = +2/+1/+1.

Going for the Medal, but also trying to get a nice rank in plain GOTM, I find it nice the idea to conquer several civs until we're only 3, then ally with one of the 2 others to get his vote. Anyway, I'll try to help the AIs on the tech pace, I want everyone to research like mads ! I know I won't have much difficulty to keep up with the AIs on Emperor, so the faster they research, the faster I'll be able to get a UN victory.

I pretty agree with LKendter. I'm almost sure I'll research Pottery at max. With so good tiles, I won't have time to wait for someone to give me the tech ! Damn, those 3 wool tiles are the juiciest stuff I've ever seen in a Civ game !

 

[ControlFreak]

Originally posted by kryszcztov
@ King Of America & ControlFreak : Moving to the west is bad IMHO. The only advantage is to be on the coast. Could be the 2nd city, I say... You don't only have to build an aqueduct, but also you miss several river tiles.

As I said, since the settler factory is stuck at 4-6 (3-5 in your case) you miss out on those tiles anyway. Why not move your settler factory to somewhere you know it can still work its 3-6 tiles but leave room for the surrounding cities to grab the remaining good (read river) tiles. Leaving it on the start position but making it a settler factory means you will be hogging all those food tiles (or else having another city only 2 tiles from your capital). If I move it W I have a grow-every-2-turns-city using three bonuses. When out of despotism I can chop-irrigate the grass under the forest and still have a grow-every-2-turns city using 2 bonuses and the irrigated grass. Since my capital is now out of the way, I have had room for another city to use the wheat and one wool to do the same (grow every two with an irrigated grassland). Since my second city was founded to do this from the begining, I still work the river tiles at least as much as not moving the settler. Plus I have an extra hill to mine in a food rich area.

 

[RowAndLive]

A brief question: Was it ever firmly resolved whether a city on an outside corner of a river bend is counted as being on the river for Aqueduct purposes? Thanks.

I'm trying to think of this in city pairs. My initial thought was to move NE into the corner of the river bend to gain three sides of protection from the river. This is a double-edged sword, however, and hampers movement. It would allow for Seoul to use the wheat and 1 wool, while sharing a second wool with Pyongyang, which would be placed on the hills SSW from the start. That also moves the capitol inland for a larger potential RCP. With the river coming from the E, the coast will not be too close in that direction. I am wondering, however, if the hills SSESE are coastal, and if so, whether they may be a better site for Pyongyang. That would have RCP at 4-4.5. Alternately, the plains at SESESE are coastal, and would have access to 2 hills as well as wool, with no adjacent mountains to have to worry about. Another possible issue with this is whether the NE tile is jungle, rather than forest, since I can't tell from the view.

My second city pairing, inspired by a posting above, would be to found Seoul to the W, on the coastal plain, with Pyongyang NNE from the starting hill (again dependent on the river question). RCP would be 3-3.5 for this, and each city would still have 2 bonus tiles, with 1 being coastal, and the other on a river. 2 settler factories early would allow for faster early expansion. If the W coast turned S or SE, though, this would constrain our first RCP circle. I've not used RCP before, so I'm obviously enthused to try it. NENE is defintely forest, not jungle, and I'm thinking that NNENE may be forested plains. (I'm not a fog guru...)

I'm looking forward to this, and anxious to get started. Given the large map, it'll probably be QSC only, so please, Cracker, give a comment on whether (future, not 21/22) QSC will still be an ongoing item, or just a reminiscence. Thank you, and good luck to all!!!

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by RowAndLive

I'm trying to think of this in city pairs. My initial thought was to move NE into the corner of the river bend to gain three sides of protection from the river.

What is the likeihood that you'll need the river for protection?

 

[Pirate]

Originally posted by RowAndLive
I've not used RCP before, so I'm obviously enthused to try it.

Since RCP was considered an exploit and 'fixed' in the upcoming Conquests expansion pack, is RCP considered an exploit in this game?

 

[planetfall]

Cracker may holler at me again for posting on the right thread but I can't find a better thread.

First a great big THANKS for including a link to the announcement about GOTM 24 in the opening of this thread.

Alas, it sounds interesting. Shucks, it is a large game. That will make it both fun and long, but think I am willing to try. I have been off for awhile and want to see what the game plays like with the enhanced naval changes.

Now for the quesiton Cracker won't like. What do I have to download to get ready/play the game.

PC choices are:

A- add on for 1.29 (6.9Mb)
"not recently played"-- hummmm, game 19 was last game downloaded. Is this "recent" or not?

B- Full setup (18.9Mb)
all ptw civs

C- Enhanced graphics (2.9Mb)
optional

D- Addon files for PTW (3.3Mb)
no description.


My guess is I don't need option B, but need to get A,C and D.

Does this sound right? Or do I do B,C and D?

Thanks in advance for your advice. I don't want to do downloads yet
because I still want to be able to read this thread.

-- PF