Government Structure Run-Off

[Strider]

Please choose one which goverment structure to use in Demogame #6.

Striders Modified Tradational - Based off the DG5 constitution, contains several modifications.

Daveshacks Alternative - Contains Strategic and Tatical leaders, designed to force leaders to do long term planning..

 

[Black_Hole]

ummm 7 days strider? CT will just pass this poll straight over by then

also: please sticky this mods

 

[Donovan Zoi]

After reading through both proposals, I am going to choose Strider's proposal. While DaveShack's alternative is commendable, there are a few things I disagree with:

1. DP as elected position
2. Administative official besides the Judiciary being part of the Constitution

Hopefully, this poll will supercede the other polls currently being opened in this subforum, but don't count on it.

 

[Black_Hole]

After reading through both proposals, I am going to choose Strider's proposal. While DaveShack's alternative is commendable, there are a few things I disagree with:

1. DP as elected position
2. Administative official besides the Judiciary being part of the Constitution

Hopefully, this poll will supercede the other polls currently being opened in this subforum, but don't count on it.

#1 was already struck down in a seperate poll, but that discussion was closed so I couldnt change it...
the main idea of DS's plan was to split strategic and tactical, i just made an example of it since everyone wanted to see details
#2 has yet to be discussed.... and we dont have overly much time to do so

 

[MOTH]

I'm voting, but I disagree with this poll. It should include a compromise position.

 

[Ashburnham]

I'm voting, but I disagree with this poll. It should include a compromise position.

Considering the looming deadline on March 1, we simply don't have enough time to hammer out an acceptable compromise. At this point, we need to choose one style or the other and stick with it.

 

[Black_Hole]

Why vote for the Alternate Government?
1. It is something new for once, we have played 5 DGs with 'traditional' offices
2. People without conquests can hold strategic positions, instead of forcing them to no office
3. You can choose a position that meets your fancy exacty, if you like discussing and polling then strategic is for you! if you like micromanaging and making your own decisions then tactical is for you!
4. More fiercely fought elections, because of #3
5. All long term decisions are discussed and polled while few nonimportant small things are polled
6. We actually get to use 'long term planning'

 

[YNCS]

2. People without conquests can hold strategic positions, instead of forcing them to no office

This is the reason I voted for DS's alternative.

 

[Strider]

Why vote for the Alternate Government?
1. It is something new for once, we have played 5 DGs with 'traditional' offices
2. People without conquests can hold strategic positions, instead of forcing them to no office
3. You can choose a position that meets your fancy exacty, if you like discussing and polling then strategic is for you! if you like micromanaging and making your own decisions then tactical is for you!
4. More fiercely fought elections, because of #3
5. All long term decisions are discussed and polled while few nonimportant small things are polled
6. We actually get to use 'long term planning'

1) I'll give you this one, but with the introduction of Conquests, I think we have enough "new."

2) While if we use the tradational government, they may not beable to hold "strategic" poistions. They will beable to hold any poistion (except DP) they want to. Overall... I think the tradational structure wins on this one.

3) I'll give you this one also, the only real bonus I can see from the alternative government.

4) I doubt it, and espicially not because of #3. The Alternative government creates more elected poistions, so the elections will be less fierce.

5) They both share the quality, the only differance being that tradational leaves it up to the citizens on wether or not they want to plan long-term or just wing it.

6) We've used it in DG1 and DG2.... it was okay.

 

[Black_Hole]

1) I'll give you this one, but with the introduction of Conquests, I think we have enough "new."

2) While if we use the tradational government, they may not beable to hold "strategic" poistions. They will beable to hold any poistion (except DP) they want to. Overall... I think the tradational structure wins on this one.

3) I'll give you this one also, the only real bonus I can see from the alternative government.

4) I doubt it, and espicially not because of #3. The Alternative government creates more elected poistions, so the elections will be less fierce.

5) They both share the quality, the only differance being that tradational leaves it up to the citizens on wether or not they want to plan long-term or just wing it.

6) We've used it in DG1 and DG2.... it was okay.

2. The thing is you can discuss strategy without having the game, you cant micromanage the game unless someone gives you lots of screenshots. In a traditional government long term and short term are mixed meaning you can only hold judiciary
5. We are going up to emperor or demigod, we cant just skip long term

 

[Strider]

Several reasons to vote for the Tradational Government:

1) It is what we've used for five demogames, it's tested, it works. How do we know the alternative government is even going to work, and even if it does work, there will still be many things that needs to be fixed in it. Do we really want to spend all game fighting over the constitution?

2) It allows our leaders freedom, they control every aspect of there respective department, and they can do whatever they want with it. While the leaders will be forced to goto the citizens VIA polls etc. it does give our leaders a certain amount of power, enough anyway to make running for one actually useful.

3) Freedom of Information Act. The Alternative government lacks an article requring leaders to post enough information for citizens to make an informed decision on a topic. With the switch to conquest and the save being out of reach of many people, this is a huge benefit.

4) The Alternative government is vague and missing several key features. Including the Naming commission, the Election office, and many other important factors.

 

[Strider]

2. The thing is you can discuss strategy without having the game, you cant micromanage the game unless someone gives you lots of screenshots. In a traditional government long term and short term are mixed meaning you can only hold judiciary

Wrong, you can hold any poistion you want to, all you need is knowaledge of how Conquests works. You do not need it. I've been Science Leader before without a copy of Civ3, there have been govonors who have managed the same feat. There is nothing stopping our citizens from repeating that.

 

[Black_Hole]

Several reasons to vote for the Tradational Government:

1) It is what we've used for five demogames, it's tested, it works. How do we know the alternative government is even going to work, and even if it does work, there will still be many things that needs to be fixed in it. Do we really want to spend all game fighting over the constitution?

2) It allows our leaders freedom, they control every aspect of there respective department, and they can do whatever they want with it. While the leaders will be forced to goto the citizens VIA polls etc. it does give our leaders a certain amount of power, enough anyway to make running for one actually useful.

3) Freedom of Information Act. The Alternative government lacks an article requring leaders to post enough information for citizens to make an informed decision on a topic. With the switch to conquest and the save being out of reach of many people, this is a huge benefit.

4) The Alternative government is vague and missing several key features. Including the Naming commission, the Election office, and many other important factors.

Do NOT hold 3 and 4 agains the alternate government. I just made an example constitution, that is not a good constitution, it was an example. When we are voting on this, we are basically voting for the offices.

 

[Strider]

Do NOT hold 3 and 4 agains the alternate government. I just made an example constitution, that is not a good constitution, it was an example. When we are voting on this, we are basically voting for the offices.

Yet, still it proves that it needs much more work. Whereas the tradational government is completed. This just inforces #1, and proves that the alternative government is not capable. It is not even finished! With very few days remaining untill the start of the game, we'd be much better off chosing the one that is done, instead of having to worry about actually have to build a brand new constitution anyway.

 

[Black_Hole]

Yet, still it proves that it needs much more work. Whereas the tradational government is completed. This just inforces #1, and proves that the alternative government is not capable. It is not even finished!

the alternate government idea is not an entire constitution, it would basically use yours and just modify the executive and legislative branches.

 

[Strider]

the alternate government idea is not an entire constitution, it would basically use yours and just modify the executive and legislative branches.

Which is even more a reason not to chose the alternative government. I built the articles to work together. Just ripping one part out and putting a completely differant part in would never work. You still have much to deal with, and your have to make heavy modifications inorder to get them to work together.

Modfications that will take time to complete, time that we don't have.

 

[DaveShack]

3) Freedom of Information Act. The Alternative government lacks an article requring leaders to post enough information for citizens to make an informed decision on a topic. With the switch to conquest and the save being out of reach of many people, this is a huge benefit.

The alternative government was inititally proposed as a means of allowing people without conquests to participate in a meaningful way. A critical aspect of the proposal is to ensure that all leaders are responsible for ensuring that complete information about their area is kept up to date. I'm not the first person to come up with the idea of leaders posting information, so I will not take credit for it, however I will point out that the only reason you have it in your document is that people who wanted the alternative style started pushing it.

The draft constitution based on the alternative style might not contain an article for freedom of information, but this poll is not about accepting one draft or the other as is, it is about how we want the leadership to be structured.

Will you abide by the people's decision, whatever it might be, and work together for the good of the game? I most assuredly will, and hope the sentiment is mutual.

 

[Strider]

The alternative government was inititally proposed as a means of allowing people without conquests to participate in a meaningful way. A critical aspect of the proposal is to ensure that all leaders are responsible for ensuring that complete information about their area is kept up to date. I'm not the first person to come up with the idea of leaders posting information, so I will not take credit for it, however I will point out that the only reason you have it in your document is that people who wanted the alternative style started pushing it.

The draft constitution based on the alternative style might not contain an article for freedom of information, but this poll is not about accepting one draft or the other as is, it is about how we want the leadership to be structured.

Will you abide by the people's decision, whatever it might be, and work together for the good of the game? I most assuredly will, and hope the sentiment is mutual.

Last time I checked, Donsig has not been seen inside of the demogame for several weeks... if not months. So this crap about people who wanted the alternative style pushed for it is false.

Still my point still stands, if we were to chose the alternative government, you will still be building a completely new constitution.

I will abide by my decisions, as I always have, and that is of no concern to you.

 

[Provolution]

No problem, Some of us will present an amendment for the government offices in a strategic and a tactical layer, and pass this article of as a constitutional amendment.
This coup to avoid a compromise solution will be contested.

 

[Strider]

No problem, Some of us will present an amendment for the government offices in a strategic and a tactical layer, and pass this article of as a constitutional amendment.
This coup to avoid a compromise solution will be contested.

No idea what the heck your talking about, care to elaborate?