Greebley said:
They were the cheapest MP units that could be made at that point or to be place holders. A number of places needed specialist for the lack of an MP, having none.
GR13 - AWE on LK's world map
- Thread starter Greebley
- Start date
They were the cheapest MP units that could be made at that point or to be place holders. A number of places needed specialist for the lack of an MP, having none.
Communism has more unit support than Monarchy, so we can go with fewer towns.
I would only abandon towns that are really squeezed in. The others can be productive and make up for a slight increase in corruption. I would also not abandon towns if we need the unit support (I don't think we will) or if we cannot build 4 more armies (number we might get fairly quickly with luck).
I think we would only be talking about abandoning 2-4 towns max based on squeeze. The desert towns are now all worthwhile.
I would switch to communism now. Note that things get better when we build that last HQ thingy that communism has. Also note that building a courthouse will make a big difference.
Our capitol does not have a courthouse. We may want to build that first if we switch.
I would only abandon towns that are really squeezed in. The others can be productive and make up for a slight increase in corruption. I would also not abandon towns if we need the unit support (I don't think we will) or if we cannot build 4 more armies (number we might get fairly quickly with luck).
I think we would only be talking about abandoning 2-4 towns max based on squeeze. The desert towns are now all worthwhile.
I would switch to communism now. Note that things get better when we build that last HQ thingy that communism has. Also note that building a courthouse will make a big difference.
Our capitol does not have a courthouse. We may want to build that first if we switch.
ThERat
Deity
ok, I will swap to communism and closely monitor the changes and try and put up some screenshots, so we can see what's going on.
I forgot about the army limits, so first priority will be to expand to the 3 chokes and settle a few more cities there.
Once we have spies, we can see who is the run away civ and who needs to be attacked first
I forgot about the army limits, so first priority will be to expand to the 3 chokes and settle a few more cities there.
Once we have spies, we can see who is the run away civ and who needs to be attacked first
Ya, sounds good. I think we are ready to try expanding. There are 8 settlers heading to the empty lands. We aren't building any new settlers since we had so many so you may need to start more.
I am not avocating going to commie or not, I don't care much. I would point out that every CH we build is worth a cav and I would rather have them. The Secret HQ will take a bunch of shields and be worthless after revolting back to Monarchy and we will lose a turn of production on each end.
We probably do no need the bump in support as we will soon be exploding out and have many new towns to provide unit support. We are just now getting to the point that specialist can make a significant contribution.
Ordinarily I would bemoan the corruption that will come to the core, but our core is not all that impressive for shields.
I will confess to very limited use of communism as I cannot recall the last time I had Religion and therefore do not consider a second switch.
We probably do no need the bump in support as we will soon be exploding out and have many new towns to provide unit support. We are just now getting to the point that specialist can make a significant contribution.
Ordinarily I would bemoan the corruption that will come to the core, but our core is not all that impressive for shields.
I will confess to very limited use of communism as I cannot recall the last time I had Religion and therefore do not consider a second switch.
ThERat
Deity
Pre-Turn
revolt, well actually it will take 2 turns until we are back to normal
MM for growth
we are still able to employ 91 scientists
we do have 105 cities and 19 armies, still room for 7 more
IT Aztecs land a big party in western Africa and the Russian send many cossacks in Babylon
the frigate bombardment is absolutely annoying
1. 1455AD
anarchy, workers are screwed
go 35-4, clearing 11 Aztecs and all Russian cossacks, it's tough to clear the area to make sure our workers are all safe
generate 2 MGL's, raze Akhad and found 1 new city
I think we need more Cavs to fill the armies
2. 1460AD
we are now communists
MM and am no too sure whether it was the right move. We now have a bunch of so so cities.
maybe courts and other stuff will help. swap most of the factories as we are very shield poor and IMHO factories make no sense there. We need more Cavs
electricity still takes 12 turns
raze darius Kabir and the Arabianm peninsula is ours (by the way razing a city takes several minutes now)
kill around 20 units without losses
3. 1465AD
40-0, move some Cav armies out to raze Bab cities so we can expand
get 3rd MGL, next army
found 3 more cities in Arabia
4. 1470AD
there are again landings from Aztecs and a lot of units from all nations. A big German stack is now within our borders
while several India stacks show up in the east
raze Persian Sardis to make way for a new city in the east, Baghdad
raze Nineveh in the north to get more space as well
I try and set up an army blockage in the west since there are too many units approaching
get yet another MGL (4th)
since we are short of Cavs to fill 2 armies anyway, use it to rush a factory
well, get 5th MGL,
send it to Kahun to rush factory next turn
found another city in Arabia
defeat around 30 units and lose 2
see that Australia is on the list and declare war on them
IT in the west there are still too many units pouring in since we didn't close the choke completely
we get Mil Academy
5. 1475AD
rush factory in Kahun
close the choke
kill 13 units
get 6th MGL, from an army this time, though we still have 2 more yet to be filled completely
raze Russian Corinth and we spot a nice choke at the Bospurus
found one final city to close the ring of cities in Arabia
move an army towards Persepolis, we need to remove the culture pressure of that town
defeat around 20 units without losses
situation at the front
note that the east is closed off with armies, we shall see whether the AI attacks the city
ther are nice chokes in the north and west
revolt, well actually it will take 2 turns until we are back to normal
MM for growth
we are still able to employ 91 scientists
we do have 105 cities and 19 armies, still room for 7 more
IT Aztecs land a big party in western Africa and the Russian send many cossacks in Babylon
the frigate bombardment is absolutely annoying
1. 1455AD
anarchy, workers are screwed
go 35-4, clearing 11 Aztecs and all Russian cossacks, it's tough to clear the area to make sure our workers are all safe
generate 2 MGL's, raze Akhad and found 1 new city
I think we need more Cavs to fill the armies
2. 1460AD
we are now communists
MM and am no too sure whether it was the right move. We now have a bunch of so so cities.
maybe courts and other stuff will help. swap most of the factories as we are very shield poor and IMHO factories make no sense there. We need more Cavs
electricity still takes 12 turns
raze darius Kabir and the Arabianm peninsula is ours (by the way razing a city takes several minutes now)
kill around 20 units without losses
3. 1465AD
40-0, move some Cav armies out to raze Bab cities so we can expand
get 3rd MGL, next army
found 3 more cities in Arabia
4. 1470AD
there are again landings from Aztecs and a lot of units from all nations. A big German stack is now within our borders
while several India stacks show up in the east
raze Persian Sardis to make way for a new city in the east, Baghdad
raze Nineveh in the north to get more space as well
I try and set up an army blockage in the west since there are too many units approaching
get yet another MGL (4th)
since we are short of Cavs to fill 2 armies anyway, use it to rush a factory
well, get 5th MGL,
send it to Kahun to rush factory next turn
found another city in Arabia
defeat around 30 units and lose 2
see that Australia is on the list and declare war on them
IT in the west there are still too many units pouring in since we didn't close the choke completely
we get Mil Academy
5. 1475AD
rush factory in Kahun
close the choke
kill 13 units
get 6th MGL, from an army this time, though we still have 2 more yet to be filled completely
raze Russian Corinth and we spot a nice choke at the Bospurus
found one final city to close the ring of cities in Arabia
move an army towards Persepolis, we need to remove the culture pressure of that town
defeat around 20 units without losses
situation at the front
note that the east is closed off with armies, we shall see whether the AI attacks the city
ther are nice chokes in the north and west
It will take time for our empire to get up and running in Communism. The SPHQ is very important as it definitely reduces corruption.
Once we are there though we will be generating a lot more shields that will pay for the courthouses and SPHQ.
Note that we should choose the town for the SPHQ wisely. The location of our palace, the SPHQ, and Forbidden Palace all will have less (and we can make that NO corruption with a police station, IIRC). It should be a town with a lot of POTENTIAL shields.
This may be a silly idea, but we could draft a few citizens and make a draftee rifle army. If it then wins some victories, it will promote and get more HP. It would have defense 12 and may promote fairly quickly on defense. The other alternative is to use the draftees to attack 1 hp units with low defense to promote first. Both alternatives fill an army without needing shields and could be good vs the large number of Rifles we will face in a certain number of turns.
BTW, does anyone know if an army of draftees promote faster than am army with vets?
Once we are there though we will be generating a lot more shields that will pay for the courthouses and SPHQ.
Note that we should choose the town for the SPHQ wisely. The location of our palace, the SPHQ, and Forbidden Palace all will have less (and we can make that NO corruption with a police station, IIRC). It should be a town with a lot of POTENTIAL shields.
This may be a silly idea, but we could draft a few citizens and make a draftee rifle army. If it then wins some victories, it will promote and get more HP. It would have defense 12 and may promote fairly quickly on defense. The other alternative is to use the draftees to attack 1 hp units with low defense to promote first. Both alternatives fill an army without needing shields and could be good vs the large number of Rifles we will face in a certain number of turns.
BTW, does anyone know if an army of draftees promote faster than am army with vets?
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
lurker's comment: Draftees will promote 4 times as fast as vets, yes, but the first 2 units will promote first, and then the last 2 will only promote if the army loses enough HP to "use" them, i.e. the first two units are redlined inside the army and the back benchers are awaken. Long story short, it would go from 8 to 12 HP pretty fast, but would take forever - and/or a lot of guile - to get over 16 if it ever does.
I think it's a clever idea given the circumstances, but it definitely isn't as promising nor powerful as an actual vet army because of the risk you have to take for the last 2 to promote.
EDIT: Btw, I think it should be called the MeHQ, Mukhabarat el-Harbeya Head Quarters, you being Egypt
I think it's a clever idea given the circumstances, but it definitely isn't as promising nor powerful as an actual vet army because of the risk you have to take for the last 2 to promote.
EDIT: Btw, I think it should be called the MeHQ, Mukhabarat el-Harbeya Head Quarters, you being Egypt
Can we rush the SCHQ or whatever it is called? It is a small wonder, so we should be able to use a leader. Nice going.
I was trying to remember if it was a small or great wonder and couldn't remember. If it is small then we should definitely rush it, but I was thinking it was a great wonder after all.
ThERat
Deity
funny, I actually played out the IT last night before calling it a night. I drafted 3 rifles and put them together with another drafted rifle into an army to defend against all those India units next to Baghdad. It worked brilliantly as the army defeated around 10 elephants and 5 Cavs. As BeF said, 2 rifles got promoted to elite while the other 2 are still 2hp rifles. It doesn't matter though, as this rifle army now has 10/14hp for the next IT.
I think Baghdad now is the perfect killing zone for all those units coming towards us. We can close the other 2 chokes soon and the AI will send all their units towards Baghdad
In order to build the HQ, we need espionage, which has low priority. We are still 9 turns from electricity, then we go for RP and sci methods. As Kahun now makes 40spt, it will complete the coal plant in 4 turns and then go for the palace prebuild for ToE.
After sci methods, I suggest to go for espionage immediately
Are you suggesting RP before Sci Meth? If so we would start the prebuild too early if we started it in 4 turns. In fact I think we would be too early even if we researched Sci Meth next.
ThERat
Deity
continuation:
draft 3 rifles and fill empty army with 4 rifles to defend Baghdad, hope this will be sufficient
IT India suicides plenty of elephants and Cavs at our Cav and rifle armies, the rifles get nicely promoted though the army is redlined
this city should be our killing zone
Kahun gets a factory and is at 45spt, goes for coal plant
6. 1480AD
found Beirut and Erewan,
get 7th MGL, decide to rush the coal plant in Kahun with it since we are still short of Cavs for armies
clear around 30 unit without losses clearing the space between 3 chokes
start to attack Persepolis, defeating 2 rifles
IT no units attack Bahgdad, but moer run towards it, I am a little puzzled here, Kahun is now at 60+spt
7. 1485AD
Kahun can produce the ToE in 10 turns, thus I go first for other stuff here like a uni
move Cav army next to Elippi to get closer to closing the chokes
clear most of the remaining units within the choke area
take city sinking many Russian frigates
selling the improvements lets us continue to run science at 70% (-33gpt)
IT we defend at Baghdad against 10 Mongol Cavs and then 5 Indian Cavs, army redlines and 2 pikes are defeated
we almost lose the town
8.1490AD
close the last choke, but unfortunately 15 cavs still made it through last IT
instead of giving the AI 3 tiles access to Baghdad, I get it to 1 tile that I occupied by Russian rifles
Mongols have impressive scary stack here
defeat another 3 units in Persepolis
IT we get a breather as the Russian rifles pillage some road and thus block the access for everyone else
9.1495AD
need to decrease science to 60% or we are bankrupt, however electricity still in 5
it was about time as we get 8th MGL
found 2 more cities, Izmir and Istanbul
raze Elippi at the northern choke
one of the armies that have been left behind disconnects the Indian capital, hope it will create some discontent
get 9th MGL, next army, we might want to fill another army with rifles later on
IT Mongol stack is back near Baghdad
10. 1500AD
get 10th MGL, rush a factory in Abydos
clear all remaining units within the new 3 choke area
found Armenia at the northern choke
finally
raze Russian Thermopylae
I put the empty army and 3 settlers in Alexandria
we have 118 cities and 25 armies currently
electricity is due in 4, I would strongly suggest to go for sci methods straight away, since we want to make sure we get ToE
Kahun can make that in 10 turns and I suggest to go for prebuild immediately next turn once we finished the uni there
the situation
the west, army holds choke
the north, 3 armies block the choke
the east with that Mongol monster stack. We can move out an army to block the city access or let them attack
I would let the city finish the walls first and block, but up to the team to decide
I am a bit unclear where to expand next. The AI has pretty scary stacks, I suggest to let Mongols waste their stuff first and then expand towards Europe as it is a bit secluded
save
draft 3 rifles and fill empty army with 4 rifles to defend Baghdad, hope this will be sufficient
IT India suicides plenty of elephants and Cavs at our Cav and rifle armies, the rifles get nicely promoted though the army is redlined
this city should be our killing zone
Kahun gets a factory and is at 45spt, goes for coal plant
6. 1480AD
found Beirut and Erewan,
get 7th MGL, decide to rush the coal plant in Kahun with it since we are still short of Cavs for armies
clear around 30 unit without losses clearing the space between 3 chokes
start to attack Persepolis, defeating 2 rifles
IT no units attack Bahgdad, but moer run towards it, I am a little puzzled here, Kahun is now at 60+spt
7. 1485AD
Kahun can produce the ToE in 10 turns, thus I go first for other stuff here like a uni
move Cav army next to Elippi to get closer to closing the chokes
clear most of the remaining units within the choke area
take city sinking many Russian frigates
selling the improvements lets us continue to run science at 70% (-33gpt)
IT we defend at Baghdad against 10 Mongol Cavs and then 5 Indian Cavs, army redlines and 2 pikes are defeated
we almost lose the town8.1490AD
close the last choke, but unfortunately 15 cavs still made it through last IT
instead of giving the AI 3 tiles access to Baghdad, I get it to 1 tile that I occupied by Russian rifles
Mongols have impressive scary stack here
defeat another 3 units in Persepolis
IT we get a breather as the Russian rifles pillage some road and thus block the access for everyone else
9.1495AD
need to decrease science to 60% or we are bankrupt, however electricity still in 5
it was about time as we get 8th MGL
found 2 more cities, Izmir and Istanbul
raze Elippi at the northern choke
one of the armies that have been left behind disconnects the Indian capital, hope it will create some discontent
get 9th MGL, next army, we might want to fill another army with rifles later on
IT Mongol stack is back near Baghdad
10. 1500AD
get 10th MGL, rush a factory in Abydos
clear all remaining units within the new 3 choke area
found Armenia at the northern choke
finally
raze Russian Thermopylae
I put the empty army and 3 settlers in Alexandria
we have 118 cities and 25 armies currently
electricity is due in 4, I would strongly suggest to go for sci methods straight away, since we want to make sure we get ToE
Kahun can make that in 10 turns and I suggest to go for prebuild immediately next turn once we finished the uni there
the situation
the west, army holds choke
the north, 3 armies block the choke
the east with that Mongol monster stack. We can move out an army to block the city access or let them attack
I would let the city finish the walls first and block, but up to the team to decide
I am a bit unclear where to expand next. The AI has pretty scary stacks, I suggest to let Mongols waste their stuff first and then expand towards Europe as it is a bit secluded
save
Looking good. We can afford to go RP first to get inf and fast workers. We are far and away the best researcher now. Not only that but it is very unlikely that any of the civs will beeline for the ToE.
In addition we will be very close to them in shields and they will not get so large of a discount as to beat us to it, with even a 4 turn prebuild.
In addition we will be very close to them in shields and they will not get so large of a discount as to beat us to it, with even a 4 turn prebuild.
I would rather TOE first. The problem is that the AI has prebuilds.
Note that the AI can beeline for Sci Meth if we get unlucky. I would rather not count on that not happening. Remember the AI can get TOE the turn after they get Sci Method with really bad luck. It is even possible we won't get it goiing for Sci Meth first - though I think that would be unlikely.
I would definitely go for Hoover. That means all our factories double shields. If a town takes 15 turns to build a factory, it will be only 30 until we have paid for the factory and start gaining shields (In 30 turns we have built as much military as if we didn't build the factory at all). The game will last longer than that I think. I would like to see factories in all the cities with a decent number of shields.
When the factories come online, then we will get RP and can start pumping out artillery. The game will be shorter because of it.
We should have another town on a Hoover prebuild so we don't have to wait long to get it after Sci method. I don't think US will fall right away. That is an expensive wonder IIRC.
I think grabbing Europe next is the best call.
Note that the AI can beeline for Sci Meth if we get unlucky. I would rather not count on that not happening. Remember the AI can get TOE the turn after they get Sci Method with really bad luck. It is even possible we won't get it goiing for Sci Meth first - though I think that would be unlikely.
I would definitely go for Hoover. That means all our factories double shields. If a town takes 15 turns to build a factory, it will be only 30 until we have paid for the factory and start gaining shields (In 30 turns we have built as much military as if we didn't build the factory at all). The game will last longer than that I think. I would like to see factories in all the cities with a decent number of shields.
When the factories come online, then we will get RP and can start pumping out artillery. The game will be shorter because of it.
We should have another town on a Hoover prebuild so we don't have to wait long to get it after Sci method. I don't think US will fall right away. That is an expensive wonder IIRC.
I think grabbing Europe next is the best call.
ThERat
Deity
I agree with Greebley to go for ToE and Hoover with it. We can wait a few more turns for artillery and infantry. But we must not miss the ToE.
I would finish the uni in Kahun and depending on the research time needed to get sci methids adjust builds. As it is, Kahun can make 2 turns Cav or rifles and we need more of them.
Istanbul can be turned into a second killing zone, if we wish to open the choke there to let the AI come forward.
I would finish the uni in Kahun and depending on the research time needed to get sci methids adjust builds. As it is, Kahun can make 2 turns Cav or rifles and we need more of them.
Istanbul can be turned into a second killing zone, if we wish to open the choke there to let the AI come forward.
RP will let you get better defenders and defenive armies. It will get the fast worker to get rails up sooner to aid in defense and add shields. It also allows farms to come into their own.
Infantry and faser workers means we can lose fewer units and not need as many replacements. At a point in time where they are not so readily available.
You can start a pre with the proper adjustments to the path chosen. There is no way they will get SciMeth before us, so no reason to be concerned about the ToE.
Although for my money I am not losing sleep over Hoovers anyway. We do not have that many cities that can justify factories and they will have a coal plants any how.
Actually for my money I do not even care that much about the ToE. I play mostly sid and do not even think about ToE or Hoovers. They are just a bonus and we win with or with out them. But then you guys are more interested in crushing the game as fast as you can, so I guess in that case it matters.
Me I just like to use the Boa style. I squeeze them after every exhale and take my time. They are not going any place.
Infantry and faser workers means we can lose fewer units and not need as many replacements. At a point in time where they are not so readily available.
You can start a pre with the proper adjustments to the path chosen. There is no way they will get SciMeth before us, so no reason to be concerned about the ToE.
Although for my money I am not losing sleep over Hoovers anyway. We do not have that many cities that can justify factories and they will have a coal plants any how.
Actually for my money I do not even care that much about the ToE. I play mostly sid and do not even think about ToE or Hoovers. They are just a bonus and we win with or with out them. But then you guys are more interested in crushing the game as fast as you can, so I guess in that case it matters.
Me I just like to use the Boa style. I squeeze them after every exhale and take my time. They are not going any place.
vmxa said:
I don't think we are in a huge rush for Infantry and Artillery. With the ability to close chokes with Armies we can make the losses nothing if we wished. Rifles and cav armies are good enough to keep us going. Agree the faster workmen is better sooner.
Hoovers however gives a huge boost to production and wins the game faster in the long run even though it slows us down at the moment. I generally prefer it for the faster win. I guess the real question is how likely are we to lose Hoover if we go for RP first. I am not sure of the answer to that one. Note that the short term production boost from Hoovers and the faster workers are about the same. If the AI's didn't have prebuilds, I would definitely go for RP first.
We also deny the AI two free techs if we get TOE which is pretty big. We don't want them getting to Air and tanks faster. The denial of the TOE to the AI is another strong reason for not risking TOE yet.
It sounds like you are willing to gamble not getting TOE to get Infantry sooner. I would prefer not to make that gamble as I don't see an immediate need to get RP. We can wait 10-15 turns to get RP after with very little loss and that loss is made up by getting Hoover sooner.
