GR15 - AWE on Ultra Huge Map

[vmxa]

Whoops forgot give this run down of the armies. I named the 3 man armies xxth-3x.

So we have:
(7) Gallic 1st - 7th
(9) Knight 8th - 16th
(14) Cav 17th - 30th (4 man)
(17) Cav 1st-3x - 17th-3x
(1) empty and unnamed
(1) leader

Total 49

 

[M60A3TTS]

ok, I got it

 

[Greebley]

My personal choice is to keep all temples. If we have a high culture we can keep ciities instead of razing them. That saves us building lots of settlers which cost more than we save if we disband temples. Razing cities also costs us tons of science since every city hast to build from scratch.

If we can get our culture to be double most other civs it is a real win for us with very few in any flips.

We sound pretty close to clearing the continent if there are only 40 cities left. I would give it 10 turns or so based on the terrrain (at a guess). I hope we have all our size 3 armies over to the other continent by then (or at least well on the way).

Roster:
Greebley
markh
Northern Pike - Out till March
vmxa - Just Played
M60A3TTS - Up
ThERat - On Deck

 

[Greebley]

Out of curiosity, why didn't you conquer Taejon (Korean) this turn? We have plenty of healthy (and nearly healthy) armies with sufficient movement to do so. We have at least 2 fully healthy armies in Hareid and Odese and Grunter in Camulodunum 2 would make another size 3 Cav Army (this is from a fairly quick look around there may be more). That is 5 attacks on the city that can all be done with full health armies. I believe I spotted a full health GS Army as well if we needed 6 attacks. We could probably get 2 or more Korean size 12 cities this turn if we wanted to, but Taejon at least looks trivial to capture with only Muskets on top.

Glad to see we are sending Armies across sea

Looks like many units are fortified. Probably worth unfortifying them at the start to locate them. One trick I use is to make stacks near the capitol that I can fortify. If they need healing they go in a city, otherwise in a stack nearby the capitol. That way if I need a unit of a certain type I just hit H to find one. They don't get lost as easily. If they stop elsewhere (supresssing resistors for example) I use space to use up their movement and leave them in the rotation. Its not necessary, but I find I lose units if I don't do something like this.

Edit: Lapurdum is a coastal town building an Infantry. I think it is better off building a Galleon. We still need a lot of them if we are ever going to get our Armies and Artillery across the ocean.

I would also consider if we want to have our max size towns build a worker. We can use them to either build outposts so we have visibility on our rails or grow towns that are new. It would be great to completely rail the coast and build outposts so we could observe any landing, though that might be too much work. Key coasts at least I would do.

 

[vmxa]

My personal choice is to keep all temples. If we have a high culture we can keep ciities instead of razing them. That saves us building lots of settlers which cost more than we save if we disband temples. Razing cities also costs us tons of science since every city hast to build from scratch.

If we can get our culture to be double most other civs it is a real win for us with very few in any flips.

We sound pretty close to clearing the continent if there are only 40 cities left. I would give it 10 turns or so based on the terrrain (at a guess). I hope we have all our size 3 armies over to the other continent by then (or at least well on the way).

I am only talking about the the new temples after they pop borders, not any of the ones that have double culture or are needed for happiness. The culture flip is not an issue on our contient and we won't need many towns on the other one will we?

I guess I thought you were only going for conquest, but if you want a culture them we should have maake some cath along the way.

I don't know about the time to clear, if we have to keep going over mountains and hills it will take some time. I hope not as we should have a foot hold on the other side soon.

I railed into the Korean land and railed into the vike town so we can rail out from it.

 

[Greebley]

Not sure if we will take cities or not. My guess though is that we will (on the other continent). Otherwise we go below 512 towns (or are building useless settlers instead of troops - note that if we have to rush settlers we lose much more cash doing that than we gain by selling temples). Going below 512 towns and the AI will send out settlers everywhere making them difficult to eliminate due to rogue settlers.

After our foothold on the other continent is secure, the best thing seems to me to be to keep all cities as we go for conquest. It just seems easiest. A few extra gold for temples isn't going to help much. Most of our science comes from scientists and not our commerce so raising our commerce doesn't increase science by a significant fraction.

This game differs slightly in that there is plenty of places to settle in the late game. Usually there aren't so the AI doesn't produce settlers - the world is already full. I do agree in smaller games there is no reason to not raze cities. Any settlers head toward the razed parts and are easy to catch.

If there are any cities left on our continent after ThERat's turn, I will be suprised.

 

[vmxa]

"Greebley"
"Out of curiosity, why didn't you conquer Taejon (Korean) this turn?"

I just forgot that I had not taking the city. I thought I had already done it. The map is so large that once you get jumping around with workers and clean up you can just get lost.
Well actually I am presuming that it was/is the one just by the coast. Now I am suspecting you are talking about the one that I sent about 5 or 6 amries toward that kill unit in front of it.

I cannot even recall now if it can be reached in one turn by cavs, but gallics can't reach it and I would not attack anything in a city with them at this point, why risk it.

There is no big rush to take them down one or two turns faster. The armies going over seas are waiting for ships and can easily go when we get them.

The 4x armies are not going any place till transports, so they will have time to finish off any stray towns. There is no real flip risk as we are putting all pop to specialist and getting up a temple in a few turns.

"Looks like many units are fortified. Probably worth unfortifying them at the start to locate them. One trick I use is to make stacks near the capitol that I can fortify."

That is what I do as well, put spare units and workers in a central place. We have so many unit I did not track them all down. I left a bunch in the place with the empty army and leader, mostly MDI types as I did not need them after they repelled the babs.

The only ones I forted are those explorers out in the boonies. I just did not want to bother moving them around and they make good outpost. I lost a couple scouting the vikes and korean, but they are expendable and probably will fall back into our hands anyway.

They could be shipped around to do some MP duty or even used to speed up builds in some cases. I know the Vikes are not sending any serious numbers out and I doubt the Babs will now either.

I can't say about Korea, but we have so many treb types that it does not matter.


"Edit: Lapurdum is a coastal town building an Infantry. I think it is better off building a Galleon. We still need a lot of them if we are ever going to get our Armies and Artillery across the ocean."

Hum that is strange, it that not the place I finsihed off the factory to get it making ships? I usually run with build last, but I know that save will over ride my preference.

I could have sworn I went around checking the core towns to find coastal place to build ships. I may have screwed up that one as I did let a few inland places make infantry to send over seas once we get airfields. I probably thought it was inland.

"I would also consider if we want to have our max size towns build a worker. We can use them to either build outposts so we have visibility on our rails or grow towns that are new. It would be great to completely rail the coast and build outposts so we could observe any landing, though that might be too much work. Key coasts at least I would do."

Well I am all for railing all the coastal tiles and getting up some outpost, I don't see the need to do it by building workers. We already have more workers than anyone wants to manage.

Not to mention that the lots of pop will cost us beakers and gold, even if it is only only for a short while.

Landing will not be a problem as long as we have few towns isolated and some sentry/outpost in the key gateways. They will not land that much and the more time goes by the more units we will have to act as sentries and defenders.

So far they have not even landed any units that I know about. I have railed a lot of coastal tiles, so we can get arties to bear if they give us a chance.

 

[vmxa]

Not sure if we will take cities or not. My guess though is that we will (on the other continent). Otherwise we go below 512 towns (or are building useless settlers instead of troops - note that if we have to rush settlers we lose much more cash doing that than we gain by selling temples). Going below 512 towns and the AI will send out settlers everywhere making them difficult to eliminate due to rogue settlers.

Again I have no real clue on the location or the speed at which we can get to those cities.

I was not thinking that we would not build towns for all razed, only that we will build them mostly on our contient, so they do not need to be defended or looked after or have work done (roads and such), under danger as would be the case over there.

We do not have to use gold, we can make cheap units to disband in those corrupt places. Also we can raise cash by taking a turn off of research after discoveries from time to time after getting to flight or tanks.

I doubt we will need to race as fast as we can on science all the time, especially once we start slamming those civs. They can't be ahead of us and won't be able to catch up.

 

[vmxa]

Not sure if we will take cities or not. My guess though is that we will (on the other continent). Otherwise we go below 512 towns (or are building useless settlers instead of troops - note that if we have to rush settlers we lose much more cash doing that than we gain by selling temples). Going below 512 towns and the AI will send out settlers everywhere making them difficult to eliminate due to rogue settlers.

Again I have no real clue on the location or the speed at which we can get to those cities.

I was not thinking that we would not build towns for all razed, only that we will build them mostly on our contient, so they do not need to be defended or looked after or have work done (roads and such), under danger as would be the case over there.

We do not have to use gold, we can make cheap units to disband in those corrupt places. Also we can raise cash by taking a turn off of research after discoveries from time to time after getting to flight or tanks.

I doubt we will need to race as fast as we can on science all the time, especially once we start slamming those civs. They can't be ahead of us and won't be able to catch up.

 

[vmxa]

I guess what I am not wanting to face is having what we had here much of the game. Lots of open land not seen by us where units can swoop down on towns from several directions. Grab workers and also a lot more land to have to have workers deal with.

Once airfileds are available we can send over lots of slaves to add into towns that make settlers. Then strong cities can make a settler in 1 turn. Add workers into it or slave of dead civs and not suffer much.

Slaves of live civs can be used from time to time to speed up settlers in the corrupt places as well.

Here and there we can hold a place to get faster access and then abandon. Many of the areas will be railed by the time we find them, so no need to hold cities.

 

[M60A3TTS]

The upload isn't taking at the moment, but here is the summary. I'll try uploading again later today.

Preturn: Kill 3 muskets and a zerk in Bodo. Raze the city. Cardinal Biggles founded.

IBT- A red Vike musket captures a large stack of trebs and kills a bunch of workers that were unguarded by Reykjavik.

Turn 1 (1725AD) 3 muskets and a zerk killed and Stockholm falls. Two muskets killed and Tromso falls. 3 muskets and a cav are killed and Taejon falls. 3 rifles killed and Uruk falls. Lose a 3x cav army and kill 3 rifles. Shurrupak falls. 2 Bab rifles and two spears die and Carchemish is captured. Disband all the trebs piled in Dalandzagad to rush infantry and cavalry in various cities. Then disband almost all the rest to speed infra builds like aqueducts in science cities. Merge a good number of workers into science cities.

IBT- About 4 cities riot. Explorer captured.

Turn 2 (1730AD) 4 spears and a Bab LB die. Nippur falls. 3 Bab rifles and an LB die defending Ashur which was also hit by artillery. That town falls. Bab rifle and two spears killed and Mari falls. 2 Korean muskets killed and Paegam falls. 2 Bab rifles, spear and LB die. Eulbar falls. 2 Vike muskets killed in a city. 3 muskets killed and Copenhagen taken by 4th Gallic. 3 Vike muskets killed and Aarhus is razed. 2 Korean muskets and a pike die. 3rd Gallic captures Cheju. Lose an infantry attacking a pike in the open. Three muskets defending Trondheim are destroyed. Raze the city. Kill 8 Zulu units at some town. No effect. Land army on Hittite lands. Get MGL with cav vs. LB. Upgraded cannons for arty.

IBT- Korea recaptured Paegam that I left empty. Captured 5 gold. Nationalism>espionage in 4.

Turn 3 (1735AD) Easy part first. Recapture Paegam with knight army against Korean cav. Kill 3 muskets and a zerk. Bergen falls. Kill several ancient Hittite units. Kill 3 Korean muskets and we have Wonsan. Kill 2 muskets and a pike. 12th Knight captures Hyansang. Kill 8 more Zulu and Swazi burns. Lose a 3x cav army, kill 4 Bab rifles and Babylon is taken. Abandon Ashur and Uruk and replace them with cities near the Babylonian front. 3rd Gallic kills 2 Korean cav.

IBT- Lose a temple and market in Moscow to shore bombardment

Turn 4 (1740AD) Two muskets killed and Oslo is captured by 30th Cav. 23rd cav does the same to Karasjok. 4 Vike muskets destroyed and 7th Gallic takes Stavanger. The Scandanavians are destroyed . Four Bab defenders taken down and 2nd Gallic takes Nineveh. A musket, cav, and two pikes killed. Pyonyang captured. At Seoul, 4 muskets killed. 15th cav moves in. 3 rifles and a longbow defending Ellipi and 8th Knight captures it.

IBT- Frigate bombards. Persian frigate sinks a wounded frigate just one water tile from the safety of a port.

Turn 5 (1745AD) 3 muskets destroyed and Nampo taken by cav army. 3 muskets and Pusan falls to 30th cav. 16th and 20th cav capture Inch’on and Ulsan defended by muskets and pike. 3 cav attacks eliminate defenders of Kaesong. Pyongsong is captured by 18th cav after hit by artillery. Samarra defended by 3 rifles and spear. 3 rifles, a spear, and 2 Bab bows are killed and 24th cav takes Akkad. Eridu is taken next, defended by 3 rifles and a spear, but it costs 1st GS army. 15th Knight army takes Zariqum defended by 3 rifles.

IBT- Mari flips and some undefended workers captured.

Turn 6 (1750AD) 3 rifles and a spear killed. Cav army captures Sippar. 15th cav kills rifle and retakes Mari. Two rifles and a spear killed and Larsa is taken. Babylon is out.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_Bye_Babylon.JPG

Kill 3 Hittite LBs and spear. The force sent there with all the cannons is totally inadequate. Hittite reinforcements will stream into the city without some pillaging. The single cavs are injured and can’t heal. Identify the 3 remaining Korean towns (pop 1 and 2) which will finish our continent. Bring up artillery for two of the three. Bring forward some armies and done.

Naval strength: 16 frigates, 21 galleons.

Convoy status:

Hittite Convoy 1- Empty and returning home. 3 Frigates and 10 galleons. Return time between 9-10 turns.

Zulu Convoy 2- Full and heading for Zulu. 7 Frigates and 9 galleons. Arrival time 5-6 turns.

I merged a couple hundred workers into cities so our science is looking good. Espionage in 1 at 0% science. 1244 gpt. Once espionage is in a bunch of taxmen can be shifted to scientists. We still have a little over 300 workers so we have more that can be merged.

Except for a captured treb or two, all of them along with catapults were disbanded to hurry units.

I have quite a few totally corrupt towns on wealth. We have 100 settlers in queue as it is with 12 built and any time one gets spit out it messes up the specialists anyways. Could start some 90-turn infantry I suppose.

Got a late start on the Intelligence Agency pre-build which is the army in Alesia. Hoover due in 3.

As far as getting the 3x armies over to the other continent, we still don’t have the shipping. We have the two convoys and a couple spare galleons with frigates. Once we have a third group put together or the Hittite convoy arrives in 9 we can load the next batch. By then we should have a world map. It is looking like our core is simply a long way from the other continent. There are shorter crossing points, most likely on the western areas, but we have no ships anywhere near there.

The French and Indians have vessels sailing around the area of Lone Mountain towards Southern Whale. They may try a landing next to an unguarded city or the tundra area in the south.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Here is the save

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/43630/GR15_1750_AD_V2.SAV

For some reason the original file was 20 meg. When I did another save as it dropped to 2. Go figure.

 

[ThERat]

got it...will start tonight

 

[vmxa]

We did not get a late start on the IA, unless you wanted to use another city. The capitol was doing a pre for Hoovers and Alesia was doing a pre for the ToE.

Once the ToE finished I started an army for a pre. I did forget to mention it though, seems I went into a comma. The army was 10 turns and I expected we could do the two techs in 8.

 

[Greebley]

So Korea is the only civ left on our continent? Is that correct?

I suspect my turn will be fairly quiet.

Do we want Tanks before or after flight? I am thinking before will be better since we can start building tanks earlier. We can build several airports to get any across quickly when we do get flight. We will probably still be shipping Armies across at that point so there is no huge rush on the airports. We simply don't have enough cav (not in armies) to make earlier airports important and attacking with only cav isn't very effective anyway.

Agree that the map is so large it is very easy to miss something even if you check.

Edit: Post the world map when you get it, ThERat. I am curious.

 

[M60A3TTS]

Korea is the only one left and they may be gone next turn.

I'm thinking flight first may be better because we're going to have a good number of single infantry and cav that can fly over by the time flight is finished. We have some time before a decision needs to be made.

I'd like to see the WM as well so we can figure out what discussions are needed.

 

[vmxa]

No huge preference on tank over flight. The one thing that flight will do for us is to let us slow down and eventually stop the frigate activity.

I usually go with it first to prevent them busting up towns, unless I can get enough units into the town to absorb the bombardment.

 

[ThERat]

what we have all been waiting for...on turn 5 finally get something interesting going

will finish most likely 10 to make it less boring for Greebley

 

[vmxa]

So ugly that other contient is about as big as ours.

 

[ThERat]

summary of what happened (or the lack thereof) during the first 5 turns.
Defeated the Koreans at turn 2. After that it was pretty quiet except for some boring bombardment and the occasional landing.
I tried to unsuccessfully leaderfish, of course the turn we got IA, I got a leader

We have Hoover as well and many cities make something like 70spt, not very useful at this point. I switched quite a few of them to banks and now stock markets as they are free anyway.
We can do easy 4 turn research and have around 7k cash. So, I guess I will get us refining and a few turns steel. Let's get flight first after combustion as we want transports to get all the unemployed armies over and then airlift all the rest.

I think we can start to clear the land from Zulu and work our way up. We should establish a naval force in the west as it is obviously a far shorter distance from our shores. I started to cashrush some naval units in the west, but it is slow going.

As for the other continent, I got a MGL there but couldn't take that Hittite city and thus, needed to abandon the MGL. As for the Zulus, I managed to raze 2 cities by simply moving away from the initial target. I think it's a good idea to raze cities, not defeat units. Their unit support will kill them and research will drop to zilch. In addition, razed cities will make democracy a pretty bad choice for them. Slows them even further.