GR8 - Phoenix Rising

[ThERat]

ok, let me explain my thinking during my turns.

Firstly, the capital has nothing to build really and I did NOT want to add any more troops to our empire. I did not want a temple either. But I wanted to capital to grow and make the maximum beakers possible.

I MM every single turn to try and squeeze the most beakers out of what we have in order to reduce tech turns for construction. When I started it was 35 turns and we were able to reduce that to 4 turns now.
I had roads as priority #1 to get more beakers. shields is secondary with us having maxed out our builds soon.
There are few tiles per town available and soon we have improved those. That's why I did not add more workers to increase unit cost. I was contemplating to disband more units but with the AI roaming freely through our empire, I did not want to weaken our military rating as well.

I did not see any spot possible to settle without really being aggressive, which we can't afford as this moment with zillions of troops running through our empire. Once a war is started we can forget this game. We have to try and stay under the radar.

As for the suicide run, the galley did survive 2 turns. I took a gamble and simply sent it to the west immediatly. There are so many other galleys around to block access to the best possible starting spot, I did not want to wait any further. Someone has started Maggelan on the last IT, so we do not have that much timw left before the AI meet each other and I thought, we either are lucky with the galley and meet them first.

 

[Heroes]

Market was much more important than the Heroic Epic. Remember that we are getting a markets worth of gold during all my and Rats turns rather than waiting for it to complete. It isn't just about how many shields, but whether you get immediate benefit or not is also important.

How many cities do we need for the FP? If 12 for a large map, we might looking into sneaking a town in somewhere - assuming there is anywhere to put it. We had 11 cities on my turn. I can never remember the OCN's for the different sizes...

I understand that market brought immediate benefit. What hurts me is that now Erech is in 0.254% probability of flip, needing 14 garrisons to supress, and we are putting an army there. This is because a Viking city's border expanded. If we rushed HE in Erech, Erech's border should have expanded before the Viking city and effectively diminish flip danger.

I am just thinking about FP and would try to squeeze a 12th city somewhere, -- as if we are playing "squeeze rematch"!

 

[ThERat]

What hurts me is that now Erech is in 0.254% probability of flip, needing 14 garrisons to supress, and we are putting an army there.

I put the army there to lower the flip risk, I think the risk is now reasonably low to put the army there. It's not as if this army is a game breaker, we are talking about an defense 2 army.

 

[Northern Pike]

Firstly, the capital has nothing to build really and I did NOT want to add any more troops to our empire.

Sure--I agree that HE is the right build in Ur, in the circumstances. But once we complete it we'll be right back to having no good build there, so some of Ur's shields might as well be shifted to towns working on galleys.

 

[Heroes]

Sorry, Rat, I didn't mean any complaint to your operation. If it looks like that, I apologize. It's just our situation is toooooooo thin and we have to be careful about every detail and I get somewhat too nervous. Sorry again.

 

[Northern Pike]

Heroes, I'll just ask because it isn't 100% clear--do you know you're up?

 

[ThERat]

Sorry, Rat, I didn't mean any complaint to your operation.

nah, no need to say sorry, I think we should have a good discussion, because at times, I felt a little stuck in this game. We need proper feedback and have to sort out what to do.

I agree with NP on the galley builds. So, if shifting tiles can help to get galleys faster, we should do so.

We could squeeze in more towns if we go CxC, but that would be really a tight build.

 

[Obormot]

About workers: sure they increase unit costs, but this only temporary because we can join them to our cities as soon as we complete building improvements and this will give us more money in the long run.

And i would squeese a few more towns at CxC. The advantage of such extreme spacing is that we would not need aqueducts in such towns

 

[Heroes]

Heroes, I'll just ask because it isn't 100% clear--do you know you're up?

Sure, I said I get it. Will do it after several hours ...

 

[Heroes]

Preflight, 350 AD (130):
We have 31 units: 10 workers, 4 archers, 2 armies, and 15 EWs. We are paying 28 gpt for them because only 17 are supported by our 11 cities.
The strongest AI is Hittites, they have 28 cities. Then Korea 17, Aztecs 16, Viking 14, Spain 13, Carthage 10 (even fewer than ours). We built an embassy in Aztec, and Hittites gifted us an embassy. Interestingly, Hittites is fighting every one except us! Hittites is in anarchy, I guess they are changing to monarchy. Our military is weak comparing to every one, of course.
Our sliders are 40% for science and 20% for lux. Construction is due in 4 turns with +9 gpt. Our gross income is 186 gpt, 26 corruption, 15 maintenance, 28 unit upkeep, 13 to other civs, 67 science.
Ur is buliding heroic epic and has 98 shields, ok, let's finish it first. Sumer is
building market and has 99 shields $#@! Change Agade from rax to temple, because it's in danger of flip.
There is only 1 place to found a 12th city without flip danger, which is a coastal forest tile near Ur. Change Kish from harbor to settler.
Shuffle the 1st EW army from flipable Erech to empty (!) Ur, which is surrounded by several foreign units. And the 2nd EW army from Zabalam to Sumer.
Several tens of Korean, Aztecs, Viking, and Spainish units are happily passing through our territory, which is so terrifying ...
IBT: It costs quite some time to see so many units roaming around. Carthage begins Copernicus.

360 AD (131):
Sumer market -> lib. Send out some slaves to explore.
IBT: We say ok to several boot orders.

370 AD (132):
Bad-Tibira harbor -> galley.

380 AD (133):
For some reason, we can now trade wines with Hittites. The reason must be that they know astronomy (although not building Copernicus) and have a harbor, otherwise the trade route cannot be connected when they are warring with everybody. By selling wines we may get 346 gold or 300 gold + construction. Via self research, construction is due in 1 turn with 50 gold investment and 1 scientist. So wines = construction + 300 gold. Note that they have 1 extra horse and we can trade it by wines.
We are now in the Middle Ages! And get engineering as free tech, which is the best. Because engineering costs more beakers than feudalism to research, and we desperately need invention. And we do have many rivers to cross, so bridge is helpful.
Of course every one knows every visible tech. Feudalism is due in 14 turns with -9 gpt. Monotheism would cost 16 turns under the same setting.
We build embassy in Spain for 80 gold, Korea for 59, Carthage for 108, Viking for 62. We have 43 gold left. The great thing is that embassy shows whether they have saltpeter even though we can't see it from F4. Carthage and Viking have saltpeter, while Spain and Korea not. The 4 gangs fighting Hittites are in peace with each other. Hittites is facing MAs of Aztec + Viking, Aztec + Carthage, Aztec + Spain, and Korea + Carthage.
IBT: Hittites and Carthage sign peace. I guess Aztec and Korea are unhappy with Carthage. Our archer is booted out from Korea. Our people are so excited with our breakthrough that they expand our palace twice.

390 AD (134):
Lagash temple -> lib. Kish settler -> temple. Drop science to 40% to get +7 gpt.
IBT: Hittites and Aztec sign peace. Spain and Viking are betrayed this time. Aztec begins Copernicus.

400 AD (135):
Akshak lib -> temple. Found Kisurra. Why FP is still not available? Emm ...
IBT: Hittites and Korea sign peace.

410 AD (136):
Umma temple -> courthouse. Zabalam lib -> temple.
IBT: Archer is booted out from Korea.

420 AD (137):
Sumer lib -> courthouse.
IBT: Carthage declares war on Aztec.

430 AD (138):
Ur heroic epic -> temple. Lagash lib -> granary. Agade temple -> granary.
IBT: Carthage suggests MA vs. Aztec + RoP. No thanks.

440 AD (139):
Erech temple -> colosseum (for fighting flip). Isin galley -> temple.

450 AD (140):
We can sell wines to Aztec, Korea, Spain, and Viking. Aztec: Wines = 1 gpt + 149 gold. Viking: Wines + 24 gold = Incense. Spain: Wines = Dyes + 9 gold + RoP. Korea: Wines = 16 gold + RoP. Pretty cheap, but it's safer than being demanded.
MM Ur to prevent wasting shields. Feudalism is due in 5 turns with +1 gpt.
Note there is an Aztec cavalry near Akshak.

 

[Heroes]

Besides current map, there are several pictures noteworthy which are what we saw when founding embassies.

 

[Heroes]

Suggest we go for invention and gunpowder at full speed. We would have some chance to beat Spain or Korea if we own saltpeter.

 

[Heroes]

For standard map, OCN = 20, and 10 cities triggers FP message. For large map, OCN = 28, I guess we will need 14 cities to build FP.

 

[Heroes]

We should build granary in some cities without fresh water (e.g., Agade), pop out workers, then insert them into food poor but gold rich cities (e.g., Umma).

 

[Heroes]

Another suggestion: don't build more rax, because they cost maintenance. Those cities with rax will build longbow and musket (hopefully!), those without rax will build trebuchet. A reasonable military before launching an attack to Spain or Korea needs at least 10 longbows and 20 trebs.
And yet another: since astronomy is well known, it's quite possible that navigation is already or will be soon discovered. Not being seafaring, our ship has 50% chance of sinking each time ending at sea or ocean. I guess AIs will quickly begin to sell communications and maps, and we don't need to send more suicide galleys.

 

[Northern Pike]

That sounds good, though I suspect I may change the temple builds.

Got it.

We're very lucky that the Koreans are still stuck with spearmen and horsemen, and my inclination is to begin building the forces for an attack on them as Heroes suggests, despite the effect on our unit costs. Would anyone object to this?

 

[Heroes]

That sounds good, though I suspect I may change the temple builds.

Got it.

We're very lucky that the Koreans are still stuck with spearmen and horsemen, and my inclination is to begin building the forces for an attack on them as Heroes suggests, despite the effect on our unit costs. Would anyone object to this?

We need temple to keep lux and flip danger as low as possible. Since the only worthy unit we can build now is trebuchet, I guess temple is not bad before we get invention. The time to begin attack is about 20 or 40 turns after, because wines are available to sell then. Hope Korea or Spain don't get rifle at that time ...

 

[Greebley]

No complaints from me. I think we want to gain more land ASAP if we can.

 

[Heroes]

Would that be honorable if we buy hard goods from Spain or Korea for gpt and resource and then boot them to trigger a war?

 

[Obormot]

That sounds good, though I suspect I may change the temple builds.

Agree with changing temple builds, temples are useless because we have cheap libs. And we still have only 10 workers

As for the techs i don't think it makes sence to gof guns and LBs. The nearest monopoly tech we can get this way is chemistry which is still quite unlikely. But if we choose the lower branch we have a chance at many monopoly techs.