ThERat
Deity
I'd say not to disconnect. Wouldn't we also have the issue with iron still being connected? I rather we have salt for cavalry which we need to build up forces for the next strike
GR8 - Phoenix Rising
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Northern Pike
Deity
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Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
950 (0): I think I'll keep every university build within three turns of completion, and change some of the others to units.
We have 28 foreign slaves in addition to fifteen native workers, so the worker situation, while not great, isn't as bad as it first appears.
Paegam library --> courthouse.
960 (1): The Celts, of all people, take Salamanca, and the Spanish are down to one city.
Madrid flips, and we lose a longbowman--though no city improvements, since there weren't any. This is why we're going to have to eliminate the Spanish, unfortunately, instead of taking techs for peace.
Kua library --> courthouse.
970 (2): We take Madrid back from a Spanish spearman (1-0).
We launch our "Back to Basics" rearmament program
, pillaging our saltpetre and iron tiles and resuming Enk builds.
The Celts declare war on us, even though they were polite and I was careful not to tempt them with empty cities. They lose a cav attacking Barcelona (2-0).
Fortunately the Celts are already at war with everyone on our continent except the Carthaginians, so we're in no immediate danger of being dogpiled.
Four universities complete, as well as Pyongsong's courthouse and Zabalam's aqueduct.
980 (3): We just take Valencia in a rather ugly attack, and eliminate the "Solid Spanish". We lose two longbowmen to defeat the garrison of three musketmen and a longbowman, and capture a trebuchet (6-2).
Research down to 10%, Physics still due in one turn.
We found Tutub in a gap between formerly Korean Aztec cities. This is moderately risky, but it's not a provocative settlement, and we won't lose anything important if the town flips.
Physics --> Magnetism, due in six turns at 60%.
We get a palace expansion.
990 (4): We found Kutallu in a gap between our Spanish cities.
We found Anshan, which like Tutub is in a gap between the Aztecs' Korean cities.
Nampo university --> barracks.
Tutub library (rushed) --> university.
We get a palace expansion.
1000 (5): We take Salamanca from two Celtic spearman and an MDI, after some bloody exchanges between the Celts and Aztecs reduce the garrison considerably (9-2).
Valencia and Anshan library (rushed) -->university.
1010 (6): Not much. Our war with the Celts is a phony one now, since they've got nothing left on our continent.
1020 (7): We found Babil in a gap in the far north.
The Vikings are down to their last city, so we send them 196 gpt for Theory of Gravity, Magnetism (on which we've done most of the work), and their 280 gold.
We enter the IA, and get Medicine as our free tech. It has trade value, if only with Carthage, so we send Medicine, 84 gpt, 5 gold, and WM to Hannibal for Steam Power.
We have no coal, but for whatever reason it's available dirt cheap, and we buy it from the Hittites for 595 gold. Could the fact that we don't have iron hooked up be depressing the price?
The Hittites and the Aztecs both have coal sources just across our borders, maddeningly.
We send the Vikings Steam Power and Medicine for Economics, Music Theory, their WM, and the 196 gpt we just gave them (so no exploit is involved, even if gpt deals with soon-to-be-extinct civs are beyond our limits
).
We're fully caught up in required techs.
The Aztecs and the Celts make peace, so now we'd like to end our Celtic war as soon as possible.
Barcelona library --> university.
1030 (8): Ur bank --> cav, Nampo barracks --> cav, Isin university --> barracks.
1040 (9): Pyongsong and Sariwon library --> university.
1050 (10): We found two colonies on luxuries a little beyond our borders. They'll only last until the nearby AI cities get cultural expansions, but I think it's worth doing. I'm able to cut the lux rate to zero, and Industrialization is now due in 13 turns at 60% research.
One elite victory this round didn't produce a Great Leader.
We have 28 foreign slaves in addition to fifteen native workers, so the worker situation, while not great, isn't as bad as it first appears.
Paegam library --> courthouse.
960 (1): The Celts, of all people, take Salamanca, and the Spanish are down to one city.
Madrid flips, and we lose a longbowman--though no city improvements, since there weren't any. This is why we're going to have to eliminate the Spanish, unfortunately, instead of taking techs for peace.
Kua library --> courthouse.
970 (2): We take Madrid back from a Spanish spearman (1-0).
We launch our "Back to Basics" rearmament program
, pillaging our saltpetre and iron tiles and resuming Enk builds.The Celts declare war on us, even though they were polite and I was careful not to tempt them with empty cities. They lose a cav attacking Barcelona (2-0).
Fortunately the Celts are already at war with everyone on our continent except the Carthaginians, so we're in no immediate danger of being dogpiled.
Four universities complete, as well as Pyongsong's courthouse and Zabalam's aqueduct.
980 (3): We just take Valencia in a rather ugly attack, and eliminate the "Solid Spanish". We lose two longbowmen to defeat the garrison of three musketmen and a longbowman, and capture a trebuchet (6-2).
Research down to 10%, Physics still due in one turn.
We found Tutub in a gap between formerly Korean Aztec cities. This is moderately risky, but it's not a provocative settlement, and we won't lose anything important if the town flips.
Physics --> Magnetism, due in six turns at 60%.
We get a palace expansion.
990 (4): We found Kutallu in a gap between our Spanish cities.
We found Anshan, which like Tutub is in a gap between the Aztecs' Korean cities.
Nampo university --> barracks.
Tutub library (rushed) --> university.
We get a palace expansion.
1000 (5): We take Salamanca from two Celtic spearman and an MDI, after some bloody exchanges between the Celts and Aztecs reduce the garrison considerably (9-2).
Valencia and Anshan library (rushed) -->university.
1010 (6): Not much. Our war with the Celts is a phony one now, since they've got nothing left on our continent.
1020 (7): We found Babil in a gap in the far north.
The Vikings are down to their last city, so we send them 196 gpt for Theory of Gravity, Magnetism (on which we've done most of the work), and their 280 gold.
We enter the IA, and get Medicine as our free tech. It has trade value, if only with Carthage, so we send Medicine, 84 gpt, 5 gold, and WM to Hannibal for Steam Power.
We have no coal, but for whatever reason it's available dirt cheap, and we buy it from the Hittites for 595 gold. Could the fact that we don't have iron hooked up be depressing the price?
The Hittites and the Aztecs both have coal sources just across our borders, maddeningly.
We send the Vikings Steam Power and Medicine for Economics, Music Theory, their WM, and the 196 gpt we just gave them (so no exploit is involved, even if gpt deals with soon-to-be-extinct civs are beyond our limits
).We're fully caught up in required techs.
The Aztecs and the Celts make peace, so now we'd like to end our Celtic war as soon as possible.
Barcelona library --> university.
1030 (8): Ur bank --> cav, Nampo barracks --> cav, Isin university --> barracks.
1040 (9): Pyongsong and Sariwon library --> university.
1050 (10): We found two colonies on luxuries a little beyond our borders. They'll only last until the nearby AI cities get cultural expansions, but I think it's worth doing. I'm able to cut the lux rate to zero, and Industrialization is now due in 13 turns at 60% research.
One elite victory this round didn't produce a Great Leader.
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
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The most dangerous aspect of our situation is that the Aztecs have just become furious with us, even though we have a RoP and they're getting wines from us (for another four turns). In about ten turns we'll be able to face an attack from them with confidence, but right now it would still be a huge problem. We should probably discuss this and do something about it before hitting Enter. I'd suggest that we ally with the Aztecs in their war against the feeble Arabs, unless someone sees a problem with this.
The Celts still won't talk to us, but we should make peace as soon as they will.
The project of getting at least one Enk into all our cities is mostly complete. A few Enks are still making their way towards our northwestern towns.
There are a couple of lux deals available--wine to the Hittites, wine and dyes to the Ottomans--but I haven't made them because, as usual, the amount of gold offered to us is ludicrously disproportionate to the benefit to the AI.
The deal that brings us furs from Persia is just about to expire, but we don't really need that fifth luxury at the moment, so the next player doesn't have to make his decision about it on the interturn.
We'll be able to start building railroads when our iron comes on line next turn.
We aren't far from the point at which most builds can be treated as factory pre-builds.
We have a settler in Kua. We could try using it to steal Seoul's coal, although in this case, unlike when we stole Seoul's horses, the settlement would have to be a provocative one.
The Celts still won't talk to us, but we should make peace as soon as they will.
The project of getting at least one Enk into all our cities is mostly complete. A few Enks are still making their way towards our northwestern towns.
There are a couple of lux deals available--wine to the Hittites, wine and dyes to the Ottomans--but I haven't made them because, as usual, the amount of gold offered to us is ludicrously disproportionate to the benefit to the AI.
The deal that brings us furs from Persia is just about to expire, but we don't really need that fifth luxury at the moment, so the next player doesn't have to make his decision about it on the interturn.
We'll be able to start building railroads when our iron comes on line next turn.
We aren't far from the point at which most builds can be treated as factory pre-builds.
We have a settler in Kua. We could try using it to steal Seoul's coal, although in this case, unlike when we stole Seoul's horses, the settlement would have to be a provocative one.
Northern Pike
Deity
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The chessboard:
Excellent trading turn, NP.
I agree on trying the Alliance. It may hold off their war with us for long enough. I think we should work full speed on preparing a war with the Aztecs. Even if they are not planning an attack, I suspect we will want to go for them so the war prep is worthwhile in either case.
Note that sometimes planting a forest can make a city no longer "front line". I don't know if we have such a city, but having one less city to guard could make us stronger overall.
I would not have guessed we could recover from near defeat this quickly though we are not out of the wood yet either.
Roster:
Greebley - On Deck
ThERat
Heroes
Northern Pike - just played
Obormot - Up
I agree on trying the Alliance. It may hold off their war with us for long enough. I think we should work full speed on preparing a war with the Aztecs. Even if they are not planning an attack, I suspect we will want to go for them so the war prep is worthwhile in either case.
Note that sometimes planting a forest can make a city no longer "front line". I don't know if we have such a city, but having one less city to guard could make us stronger overall.
I would not have guessed we could recover from near defeat this quickly though we are not out of the wood yet either.
Roster:
Greebley - On Deck
ThERat
Heroes
Northern Pike - just played
Obormot - Up
ThERat
Deity
Agree on the alliance and then go full steam for a war preparation with Aztecs. We need to fight them no matter what anyway, so it is best to preapre the assault. By the way, which victory condition are we aiming for in this game as it will determine the strategy as well.
Northern Pike
Deity
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ThERat said:
Domination or conquest, I assume. We won't need to choose between those two for some time.
I was thinking along the lines of Dom/Conquest as well. It seems the most appropriate wins for the variant.
Obormot,
I noticed you were up in both Handy21 and this game. Do you want a swap? I am assuming things are busy for you since you haven't posted your got it yet nor the Handy21 move.
Tomorrow is a good day for me to play.
I noticed you were up in both Handy21 and this game. Do you want a swap? I am assuming things are busy for you since you haven't posted your got it yet nor the Handy21 move.
Tomorrow is a good day for me to play.
ThERat
Deity
I would just go ahead, Greebley. Obormot will surely be fine with a swap
Northern Pike
Deity
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- Messages
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Heroes said:
Since the Aztecs are already at war with the Arabs, that alliance won't cost us anything.
We'll need to build up our military a fair amount before a war with the Aztecs or the Hittites would be prudent, even with the other one as an ally.
Greebley, do just play as Rat suggests, and we'll work Obormot in later.
oK, i got it. I will probably be building up our military for the eventual war.
Preturn: I do the Arabia deal mentioned by NP also getting 66 gold and WM. Aztecs are now annoyed.
IBT: Vikings are destroyed. Our Deal with Persia for Ivory expires. I trade Med + 1 gpt for Ivory, and Navigation and gold.
1060 AD: Celts will talk. I decide to get Nationalism in trade which costs Steam, Medicine and 41 gpt, WM and change. Rifles are much more cost effective than Muskets and should help us defend sooner. Don't like giving the Celts tech, but since the Ottomans are making progress against them, I think it is acceptable - It gives us a bigger leg up than it does for them.
I also trade Ottomans 2 Lux for 888 gold. I will upgrade our Muskets.
Early: Building Rifles, Cav, and Workers for the most part.
Mid: Much Railing
1130 AD: Most towns railed. Most AI get Industry before us.
IBT: Carthage and Arabs are both destroyed. Aztecs angrily cancel our ROP.
1140 AD: Going to wait until 1150 so we can all discuss if we want to do something about the Aztecs.
1150 AD:
Notes:
We are probably not yet ready to fight, but we are closer. We have 12 Rifles, 8 Cavalry, 47 Enkidu.
I was thinking an MPP might be useful, but that will break our deal with the Celts and hurt our Rep. Everyone is at war with the Celts right now.
Industrialization in 2.
The real question is whether we should do something about the Aztecs. We could attack them with an Alliance with the Hittites. Most of the Hittite troops are in or near Aztec Territory since they just destroyed Carthage. It may be worth trying. It could get rough though as I am sure the Aztecs have a lot more Cavalry than us.
We can also do something about the Aztecs after we build factories, but we do risk them attacking us which is much worse than us allying with the Hittites and attacking them.
Capitol is building Colosseum to switch to a factory when we can.
There are a lot of fortified units in different towns and a settler just outside our capitol.
We got 40 workers now and should be able to rail quickly.
I didn't abandon Kisurra yet. Next player can do so if we think it wise.
Roster:
Greebley - Just Played (swapped)
ThERat - On Deck
Heroes
Northern Pike
Obormot - Up
IBT: Vikings are destroyed. Our Deal with Persia for Ivory expires. I trade Med + 1 gpt for Ivory, and Navigation and gold.
1060 AD: Celts will talk. I decide to get Nationalism in trade which costs Steam, Medicine and 41 gpt, WM and change. Rifles are much more cost effective than Muskets and should help us defend sooner. Don't like giving the Celts tech, but since the Ottomans are making progress against them, I think it is acceptable - It gives us a bigger leg up than it does for them.
I also trade Ottomans 2 Lux for 888 gold. I will upgrade our Muskets.
Early: Building Rifles, Cav, and Workers for the most part.
Mid: Much Railing
1130 AD: Most towns railed. Most AI get Industry before us.
IBT: Carthage and Arabs are both destroyed. Aztecs angrily cancel our ROP.
1140 AD: Going to wait until 1150 so we can all discuss if we want to do something about the Aztecs.
1150 AD:
Notes:
We are probably not yet ready to fight, but we are closer. We have 12 Rifles, 8 Cavalry, 47 Enkidu.
I was thinking an MPP might be useful, but that will break our deal with the Celts and hurt our Rep. Everyone is at war with the Celts right now.
Industrialization in 2.
The real question is whether we should do something about the Aztecs. We could attack them with an Alliance with the Hittites. Most of the Hittite troops are in or near Aztec Territory since they just destroyed Carthage. It may be worth trying. It could get rough though as I am sure the Aztecs have a lot more Cavalry than us.
We can also do something about the Aztecs after we build factories, but we do risk them attacking us which is much worse than us allying with the Hittites and attacking them.
Capitol is building Colosseum to switch to a factory when we can.
There are a lot of fortified units in different towns and a settler just outside our capitol.
We got 40 workers now and should be able to rail quickly.
I didn't abandon Kisurra yet. Next player can do so if we think it wise.
Roster:
Greebley - Just Played (swapped)
ThERat - On Deck
Heroes
Northern Pike
Obormot - Up
Greebley, i think you forgot to attach the save.
About the aztecs: i don't think we are in a hurry. We can surely defend successfully with the forces we have, but 8 cavalry seems a bit too little for an offensive war. We'll only be able to do slow progress and WW will hurt us before we can do any serious damage. I think we should build factories, research RP and build a nice artillery SOD first. BTW, what is the cultural situation? We might be forced to attack celts first.
About the aztecs: i don't think we are in a hurry. We can surely defend successfully with the forces we have, but 8 cavalry seems a bit too little for an offensive war. We'll only be able to do slow progress and WW will hurt us before we can do any serious damage. I think we should build factories, research RP and build a nice artillery SOD first. BTW, what is the cultural situation? We might be forced to attack celts first.
Northern Pike said:
The Arabs are down to 4 cities, I don't know how many turns they can hold. But anyway, it cannot hurt, Abu is unlikely to buy in any one against us. Can we gain any cash from Aztecs by supporting their jihad vs. Abu?
I suggest to sell lux at least to Ottomans, because it seems that they are defeating Celts, the main threat of culture. And Ottomans have a lot of cash (3104) to pay.
Are there coals in Persia territory? If so, we can sell them steam power, then buy coal.
What's our plan about nationalism and communism? I think Nopt is ~40 (large, deity, not commercial, FP, courthouse, no police station, republic). We have 34 cities now. I think we'd better switch to communism after winning a war against Aztecs or Hittites.
Do we want to build Evolution and Hoover? I guess yes. That means research in order of industrialization - electricity - scientific method, then hope nationalism, communism, and maybe RP can be traded by atomic theory and electronics.
About building now: no more banks? Since we are doing full speed research, the bonus of bank is marginal. When 30% avenue goes to treasure, a city with 20 base gpt gains only 3 gpt from bank, largely offsetted by 2 gpt maintenance.
Ya, the save no longer can attach because it is over 500 KB (I didn't notice it didnt attach). We are going to have to use the upload instead.
Here is the Save
I am guessing you cross-posted Heroes. Banks are not useless though. For example we are now running 50% cash. 30% gold is not going to be viable if we want a larger army. Banks would help going to 60% cash. Note that the current banks are factory prebuilds at the next players discretion.
Actually our biggest problem now is too many Enkidu and workers. However, we also have lots of towns to protect so I would keep the Enkidu for now. And the workers of course will get our rails up and running faster. Both can be gotten rid of/upgraded/merged in the long term.
Edit: Actually, I simply made all builds take longer than the number of turns until Industrialization for max flexibility. Go thru all town and decide what we want first.
Here is the Save
I am guessing you cross-posted Heroes. Banks are not useless though. For example we are now running 50% cash. 30% gold is not going to be viable if we want a larger army. Banks would help going to 60% cash. Note that the current banks are factory prebuilds at the next players discretion.
Actually our biggest problem now is too many Enkidu and workers. However, we also have lots of towns to protect so I would keep the Enkidu for now. And the workers of course will get our rails up and running faster. Both can be gotten rid of/upgraded/merged in the long term.
Edit: Actually, I simply made all builds take longer than the number of turns until Industrialization for max flexibility. Go thru all town and decide what we want first.
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