[Graphic Mod] Varietas Delectat v9.2 [civ specific unit sets]

[Ermelinho]

I´ve to say that the swastika really isn´t a good choice here. historically correct maybe, but not politically. it represents a regime and an ideologie rather than a country. i think it´s fine using it in wwii scenarios. but it should just like hitler not show up in the main game. the tatzenkreuz (cross pattee or iron cross) is much better representing the country for it´s been used by the germans since the 12th century, and also by the nazis. the uniform of the wehrmacht doesn´t vary very much in style from before or after wwii, except of the hooked cross on it.

i also think, that trying to make this game historically accurate is totally absurd. it´s ok to have artstyles that represent an era like "ok, that´s how a civs unit could have looked like at that time", no matter what the regime.
it´s not only the hooked cross i have problems with. it´s also hammer and sickle. how historically accurate is it to have my units wear hammer sickle, when i run universal suffrage, free speech, free market and theocracy? so there shouldn´t be any political symbol on units imo.

 

[Wolfshanze]

We're not even talking about ONE FLAG to represent all of Germany through the ages... we're talking about a very specific unit from a very specific time-frame... you can go on-and-on-and-on about the Cross all you want... the simple fact of the matter is, the Cross is not what the Germans flew during WWII, and the cross is not what was emblazoned on the deck of the Bismarck, or on the tails of their aircraft, or on the breast eagles on their uniforms... historical fact, is historical fact... whether or not you want to get emotionally all tied up over stupid crooked cross, as opposed to the idiots behind it, baffles the mind.

When somebody goes to the trouble to make a historically accurate unit, with historically accurate markings, that's called history, not a political statement.

Political censure of history is not anything new... the Nazis did it, and I don't see that much has changed since then.

If you don't agree with historical fact, white-wash it and pretend it didn't exist.

You can take a pig out of the sty, but it still stinks either way.

 

[Ermelinho]

We're not even talking about ONE FLAG to represent all of Germany through the ages...

no but we´re talking about UNITS from a very specific time age to represent a not so specific time age in the game.

the simple fact of the matter is, the Cross is not what the Germans flew during WWII,

that´s not true

When somebody goes to the trouble to make a historically accurate unit, with historically accurate markings, that's called history, not a political statement.

i have no problem with historically accurate units nor with political statements. but i do have problems with a symbol representing a time period that´s been not as long as it appears in the game. there´s been german and russian generals and infantries, battle ships etc BEFORE and AFTER WWII.

Political censure of history is not anything new... the Nazis did it, and I don't see that much has changed since then.

If you don't agree with historical fact, white-wash it and pretend it didn't exist.

You can take a pig out of the sty, but it still stinks either way.

who´s getting emotional here?

 

[Zerver]

Me working on ethnically diverse settlers, cool3a2 helps me in that. They will be awesome. Uploading 12 cuirassiers...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Yep, I'm deciding on unit-by-unit bases. The reasons for a swap could be: better quality unit and/or historically more accurate unit.

But I thought we agreed the historically accurate thing was Chugg's department and VD would be alternate history?(Like with the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, and Incans in VD currently and soon to be the Aztecs, Persians and Mayans I'm sure when Bakuel releases his massive unit packs this summer).

 

[avain]

But I thought we agreed the historically accurate thing was Chugg's department and VD would be alternate history?(Like the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Incans and soon to be the Aztecs, Persians and Mayans when Bakuel releases his massive unit packs this summer)

Chuggi was not satisfied with the what-if units from this mod that I have no problems with. That does not automatically means I shy away from realistic ones. As for Aztecs, Persians and Mayans, etc., if Bakuel releases those units, I'll be more than happy to include them.

 

[avain]

Me working on ethnically diverse settlers, cool3a2 helps me in that. They will be awesome. Uploading 12 cuirassiers...

Thanks, Zerv', keep 'em comin'!

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

I think Avain you'll be glad to be rid of the Aztek Heavy footman(Maceman) holding the two pipes for weapons especially..

 

[avain]

I think Avain you'll be glad to be rid of the Aztek Heavy footman(Maceman) holding the two pipes for weapons especially..

Yeah, that's a filler unit, 'until better comes', though that pipe is impressive on it's own.

 

[Chuggi]

But I thought we agreed the historically accurate thing was Chugg's department and VD would be alternate history?(Like with the Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, and Incans in VD currently and soon to be the Aztecs, Persians and Mayans I'm sure when Bakuel releases his massive unit packs this summer).

I've already replaced the Hitler General with one based on Erwin Rommel for the next version of CDM. Hitler was more fun to make, though.

 

[Von Salza]

We all have different opinions, and of course for Avain and other creators cannot please everyone, and besides they have their own opinions and like for sure to see them reflected on their hard work.

However some people are just plain lazy, they can spend hours and hours playing the game, but cannot loose one hour to slightly change a detail on a texture or changing something on a xml, although the fantastic numbers of tutorials around.

I'm doing some changes in my CIV and VD to make it more to my liking, so that every civ of old has a link to its, ethnic, language, social etc. succesor.

Meaning:

Inca are Peru
Carthaginians, Tunisia
Rome, Italy
Sumerian, Kuwait
Babylon, Iraq

and so on...

I also try to reflect the markings of the era, so if its a German ME 109 it will get the swastica, if its a carthaginian F5 Fighter it will get Tunisia airplane markings....thats my view...

So, the mod user can try to make its on changes, to compliment some of the modders work...hey...you'll never know if you can be a great modder...

 

[Chuggi]

I'm doing some changes in my CIV and VD to make it more to my liking, so that every civ of old has a link to its, ethnic, language, social etc. succesor.

Meaning:

Inca are Peru
Carthaginians, Tunisia
Rome, Italy
Sumerian, Kuwait
Babylon, Iraq

and so on...

I also try to reflect the markings of the era, so if its a German ME 109 it will get the swastica, if its a carthaginian F5 Fighter it will get Tunisia airplane markings....thats my view...

That's pretty much what I'm going to do in CDM. Avain has done it to a certain degree in VD, as well.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Sumeria and Babylon are both Iraq if you ask me. That's twice-now that Sid chose to make two Civs from the exact same geographical area (Germany/HRE & Babylon/Sumeria) without adding a major civ from a differant location just a few miles over (like Poland or the Hittites).

 

[Chuggi]

I have Sumeria as Syria and Babylon as Iraq.

 

[Wolfshanze]

I have Sumeria as Syria and Babylon as Iraq.

Well southern Mesopotamia is definitely NOT Syria... it's modern-day Iraq... just like Babylon. The Sumerian civ pre-dated the Babylonians, but lived in essentially the same place.

 

[Von Salza]

Sumeria and Babylon are both Iraq if you ask me. That's twice-now that Sid chose to make two Civs from the exact same geographical area (Germany/HRE & Babylon/Sumeria) without adding a major civ from a differant location just a few miles over (like Poland or the Hittites).

Hi Wolf

DNA testing point to Kuwaitians being more Sumerian than Iraquis. Same way as the Khmer amount for about 80% of the the Cambojan ppl and are very less on Thailand or Laos.

I'd say

Khmer Cambodia
Inca Peru
Aztecs Mexico
Maya Guatemala
Babylon Iraq
Sumeria Kuwait
Zulu South Africa
Celts Ireland or Scottland

I will discart the Holy Roman and Byzantium, perhaps for Wallachia (Romania) and Hungary.

The problem for me its the Vikings and the Americans/Native Americans, if the Americans can be geographicly the Native, they are not the rest.

About the Viking, I'm inclined to go with the Kalmar Union or just break them apart.


On a different note, about Persia / Iran, do you guys know the Zulfiqar...
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_249.shtml

 

[Wolfshanze]

DNA testing?

If that's the determination for what Civ you are in today's world, then why wouldn't America be English since most Americans are DNA-related to the English (and most English are DNA-related to Germans, so I guess we need to change them too).

Americans live in... well... America...

Sumerians live in the Mesopotamia... which is modern-day Iraq.

It is what it is... the Tigris-Euphrates river system isn't called the "cradle of civilization" for nothing.

Sumeria lies in what today is known as modern-day Iraq... that's just a fact. If your great-great Grandmother was from Russia, but you were born and raised in Australia, does that mean you live in modern-day Russia? No, you live in modern-day Australia.

Sumeria is in Iraq people... it's not Syrian, it's not Kuwait... it's I-R-A-Q.

Don't get upset with me because Firaxis chose to make two civs from the exact same geographical location... that's what THEY DID... if it was me, I would have made Austria instead of the HRE and the Hittites instead of Sumeria, and I would have thrown-in Poland to boot. But Firaxis chose to place two civs from nearly identical locations in what is now known as modern day Iraq.

Don't blame me... it is what it is.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Thats exactly why I have the civs stay as they are...after all in Civ you are the Incans for example, and never get conquered, so why not reflect that in units?

 

[Von Salza]

Wolf
I'm not mad or blame you...besides I'm not trying to selling you anything. I have but to thank you for your work that made my game more enjoyable with or without Kuwait.

If Sadam managed to get Kuwait as a province of Iraq (as some historians say it is), this wouldn't matter...after all Kuwait is south of Iraq.

Now if we wanted to get the Kurds/Kurdistan in the game, that would be a problem, though we already have a LH, Saladin...yup..the Kurdish Saladin, Sultan of Egypt and Syria, leading the Arabs... ...hehehehehehe

Btw the greatest ethinc group on the USA population are the Germans amounting for 15%, then English and Irish are very close I belive...

 

[Wolfshanze]

Von Salza... you just proved my point.

If the single largest ethnic American group is German, that doesn't mean that Washington D.C. is in Germany... anymore then a single city-state of Ancient Sumeria is in modern-day Kuwait (not a single one of them is). Every single city of Ancient Sumeria lies in present-day Iraq... ethnic population doesn't equal geographic location. Sumeria is in Iraq, not Kuwait... Washington D.C. is in America, not Germany.

There is nothing wrong with being accurate... BOTH Babylon and Sumeria lie in modern-day Iraq. That's simply F-A-C-T.

I'm not a fan of both Sumeria and Babylon being in the game at the cost of other civs in different geographic locations... but it is what it is... and both Sumeria and Babylon = modern day Iraq... just like the Native Americans = modern day America (not Honduras).