Graphical Quibbles...

[Lord Tirian]

One possible idea:do you think it would look good if the colour of the building from where the arrow starts would be used for the roof of the building the arrow points to?

It does look better - and I finished the cityset. Files attached. Should work by just putting it into the assets-directory (of 13c). Is fully working for Drone cities, including a new Governor's Office and new HQ.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Thanks awesome, and added for the next patch!

In the meantime I have two new little requests.

1) I'd like to add the Planetary Transit System at Superstring Theory, which would create a Dimensional Gate in each base. Would you be willing to make a Planetary Transit System button (Build or Conquer colour??) with that middle circle removed, so the "Doctrine:Mobility" circle can be enlarged somewhat?

2) I'd like to add a Radiotrophic Fungus resource, enabled at Xenobiology. Hopefully this might make more of the AIs go pro-Planet once in a while. Because of the melanin, the fungus should be black(ish?). Would you be interested to make such a texture?

Edit: kinda off-topic, but since I'm talking about resources anyway: how would you feel about renaming Uranium to Thorium?
Advantage: it's actually a futuristic tech.
Disadvantage: many may not know what's so special about Thorium.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Thanks awesome, and added for the next patch!

In the meantime I have two new little requests.

1) I'd like to add the Planetary Transit System at Superstring Theory, which would create a Dimensional Gate in each base. Would you be willing to make a Planetary Transit System button (Build or Conquer colour??) with that middle circle removed, so the "Doctrine:Mobility" circle can be enlarged somewhat?

2) I'd like to add a Radiotrophic Fungus resource, enabled at Xenobiology. Hopefully this might make more of the AIs go pro-Planet once in a while. Because of the melanin, the fungus should be black(ish?). Would you be interested to make such a texture?

Edit: kinda off-topic, but since I'm talking about resources anyway: how would you feel about renaming Uranium to Thorium?
Advantage: it's actually a futuristic tech.
Disadvantage: many may not know what's so special about Thorium.

I like all those ideas

Re Thorium, I don't see a problem. Either a player does not care for the reason, then it is just a name change and who cares can read in the Datalinks why the Chiron colonists are interested in Thorium.

 

[Lord Tirian]

1) I'd like to add the Planetary Transit System at Superstring Theory, which would create a Dimensional Gate in each base. Would you be willing to make a Planetary Transit System button (Build or Conquer colour??) with that middle circle removed, so the "Doctrine:Mobility" circle can be enlarged somewhat?

Sure, will do (if my upgrade to Windows 7 doesn't make my PC explode or something - I was postponing that for too long, I just wanted to get the cityset done before risking any PC failures!).

2) I'd like to add a Radiotrophic Fungus resource, enabled at Xenobiology. Hopefully this might make more of the AIs go pro-Planet once in a while. Because of the melanin, the fungus should be black(ish?). Would you be interested to make such a texture?

How should it look like? Like a little patch of black fungus, like brilliance now, just black instead of purple?

Edit: kinda off-topic, but since I'm talking about resources anyway: how would you feel about renaming Uranium to Thorium?
Advantage: it's actually a futuristic tech.
Disadvantage: many may not know what's so special about Thorium.

...totally in favour, but I'm biased since that's a topic close to what I study!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Sure, will do (if my upgrade to Windows 7 doesn't make my PC explode or something

How should it look like? Like a little patch of black fungus, like brilliance now, just black instead of purple?

Indeed!

...totally in favour, but I'm biased since that's a topic close to what I study!

Consider it done!

 

[Pickly]

Uranium to Thorium seems fine to me. I am curious, though, what is special about it. I've read about it being more comon on earth than uranium, and about potential fission reactor development using it, but am not sure if that's the special thing, or if I'm missing some other information.

Also, what would the radiotropic fungus do? (Are you planning to have it as a nuke aftereffect as the planet buster thread describes, or would this be another food and/or happiness resource?)

 

[Lord Tirian]

Uranium to Thorium seems fine to me. I am curious, though, what is special about it. I've read about it being more comon on earth than uranium, and about potential fission reactor development using it, but am not sure if that's the special thing, or if I'm missing some other information.

It's mainly the fission reactor development - thorium can be used in subcritical reactor designs. The main benefits of these design are that they the chain reaction is only kept going by outside neutrons - meaning:

• They can't blow up, if you turn off the neutron source, the whole thing turns off. That's an obvious plus.
• The waste is less radioactive only for a couple of hundred years (instead of the millennia of current waste), so it's easier to dispose of.
• One of the big factors: They produce less plutonium, i.e. no nukes for you.
• They have the potential to be smaller, though you need to put an accelerator next to it. On the other hand, one thing that people are working on are plasma accelerators - if they are successful, a LHC-level accelerator could fit in a van... so it probably isn't a problem.

Note: That's only for ADSR (accelerator-driven subcritical reactors). There are also other concepts involving thorium fuel cycles, but I'm no expert on these (I only came in these things, because the accelerator-driven designs have overlap with particle physics). But I think the point is that there is a host of possible designs with various advantages - and Planetfall doesn't need to choose a single one, meaning we get something futuristic yet plausible. And we can get rid of Uranium, which is nice, less overlap with CivIV resources reduce the chance of confusing the effects.

Cheers, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

Your fourth point sounds like a feasable fission reaction spacedrive, Lord Tirian.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Indeed!

Done. I went for a more brownish instead of blackish colour to make it a little more distinct from oil (though oil only occurs on water, so I'm not sure whether that's a problem at all) and to make it a bit more "organic" in its look. Also made the secret project button (colour has to be Build, I think, unless you see the effect as totally military or something - if so, I can still make a conquer version of it).

Though I have to say... isn't "dimensional gates everywhere" more like the Bulk Matter Transmitter project? Planetary Transit System sounds way more, er, mundane?

EDIT: Forgot to say, the fScale used on the screenshot is 0.8, as opposed to brilliance's 0.5.

EDITEDIT: Out of curiosity, which cityset should I do next? I'm not sure whether I'll immediately start working on another one, but I want to do'em - and since they take some time to do, I'd like to know which one has the highest demand. I guess Angels or Consciousness?

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

Thanks! It'll be included in patch e.

Though I have to say... isn't "dimensional gates everywhere" more like the Bulk Matter Transmitter project? Planetary Transit System sounds way more, er, mundane?

Judging from its secret project movie, the Bulk Matter Transmitter seems to be some space-based transportation method. I kinda imagined this new secret project as a train system connected through wormholes, as in Peter Hamilton's Commonwealth Saga. Planetary Transit System seems to fit that idea better. It should be said I consider almost all of SMAC's secret project names rather silly.

EDITEDIT: Out of curiosity, which cityset should I do next? I'm not sure whether I'll immediately start working on another one, but I want to do'em - and since they take some time to do, I'd like to know which one has the highest demand. I guess Angels or Consciousness?

I'd actually prefer the Pirates, because that set could be used for everyone's sea bases. That is assuming of course it's possible at all to have a water based cityset. Do you or Geo know this?

 

[GeoModder]

I'd actually prefer the Pirates, because that set could be used for everyone's sea bases. That is assuming of course it's possible at all to have a water based cityset. Do you or Geo know this?

AFAIK, citysets simply don't generate on water plots, but facilities do get placed.
If you want me to, I can try finding a way after I upload my latest additions.
Btw, sofar it's only the naval yard, pressure dome and trunkline that are supposed to appear in seabases, correct?

 

[Lord Tirian]

I'd actually prefer the Pirates, because that set could be used for everyone's sea bases. That is assuming of course it's possible at all to have a water based cityset. Do you or Geo know this?

Perhaps Geo knows more, but the last time I've checked (and played around with it), I could only get certain facilities to show up on water - that's the way harbours and lighthouses are done in Civ4 and how the seabase graphics are done in Planetfall.

IIRC, I've seen another way of doing it (I don't remember whether I tested it or just saw it in one of the Dune Wars art threads), but essentially the water line cuts the placement of buildings. By lowering the water line, you can change that - that's still very useful, since to get buildings in oceans, you'd need to put the water below the ocean floor and yeah...

Well, that's why I didn't think of the pirates, because they spend most time on water and shouldn't have a lot of land bases (and I don't have a good idea of pirate bases on land, because the domes appear a bit silly to me on land).

EDIT: Of course, waaaaay to slow, Geo has beaten me by half an hour!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Maniac]

"Sea Base", Naval Yard, Aerospace Complex and Subsea Trunkline.

 

[Pickly]

Judging from its secret project movie, the Bulk Matter Transmitter seems to be some space-based transportation method. I kinda imagined this new secret project as a train system connected through wormholes, as in Peter Hamilton's Commonwealth Saga. Planetary Transit System seems to fit that idea better. It should be said I consider almost all of SMAC's secret project names rather silly.

Given the advance that allowed bulk matter transmitter, and the other abilities it gives, the project seems more of a wormhole thing. (The space bit is odd, but the important element of the movie does seem to be the wormhole it goes through.) Based on the original, Bulk Matter seems a better fit. (Both names would work fine, though, just considering planetfall on its own.)

 

[Deliverator]

IIRC, I've seen another way of doing it (I don't remember whether I tested it or just saw it in one of the Dune Wars art threads), but essentially the water line cuts the placement of buildings. By lowering the water line, you can change that - that's still very useful, since to get buildings in oceans, you'd need to put the water below the ocean floor and yeah...

This post for the low down on getting sea bed citysets to show up. I did a fair amount of research into this and I don't think you can have sea-bed cities without giving up the water layer. This obviously wasn't an issue with Dune Wars, we wanted no sea anyway, but it is not really desirable for you guys. It may be possible to hack a workaround by raising the water layer NIFs on the Z-axis, but that is a long shot...

 

[Lord Tirian]

...about renaming Uranium to Thorium?

It just occurred to me: What would happen to the Planet map's uranium flats? Perhaps Thorium could get a new graphic and the uranium flats become an actual landmark again? Could become a four-tile landmark where each plot gives +1 energy, -1 nutrients or something like that.

Your fourth point sounds like a feasable fission reaction spacedrive, Lord Tirian.

I would still bet on Orion-style fission drives with pusher plates!

It may be possible to hack a workaround by raising the water layer NIFs on the Z-axis, but that is a long shot...

Hmm... even if that works, wouldn't it still mean that ships would be on the shifted waterheight, ditto for waves at coasts and land units travelling on water (which Planetfall has)? That sounds... potentially messy. Any idea on that - since you did lots of brilliant stuff with Dune Wars' terrain! By the way... why did the stream of new Dune Wars releases stop? It's on 1.7.1 for a while now (and doesn't get new art ).

The space bit is odd, but the important element of the movie does seem to be the wormhole it goes through.

The entire movie was a bit odd, because from the quote and the end, it doesn't even appear to be a successful experiment, because the starship remains some intangible energy thing (ironically, the Psi-Gate quote is still from Miriam and... sounds much more approving!). But together with the "bulk" it probably implies that it's only transferring matter well, not structure (or souls).

Cheers, LT.

 

[GeoModder]

I would still bet on Orion-style fission drives with pusher plates!

But that's so... bumpy a ride...
Besides, I wonder if the storage space for a fair amount of bombs isn't bigger then a "fuel tank" for a reactor+accelerator.
I'm sure acceleration of such a spaceship would be slower then what an Orion-style drive could accomplish, but the amount of preparation for a succesful flight sound so much smaller with a Thorium-fueled fission drive + accelerator.

Hmm... even if that works, wouldn't it still mean that ships would be on the shifted waterheight, ditto for waves at coasts and land units travelling on water (which Planetfall has)? That sounds... potentially messy. Any idea on that - since you did lots of brilliant stuff with Dune Wars' terrain!

I definitely like to hear a response to this too!

 

[Deliverator]

Hmm... even if that works, wouldn't it still mean that ships would be on the shifted waterheight, ditto for waves at coasts and land units travelling on water (which Planetfall has)? That sounds... potentially messy. Any idea on that - since you did lots of brilliant stuff with Dune Wars' terrain! By the way... why did the stream of new Dune Wars releases stop? It's on 1.7.1 for a while now (and doesn't get new art ).

Some findings on the water thing:

If you set iWaterHeight to zero in Civ4TerrainSettings.xml, then you can place cities on the sea-bed and the citysets are visible. If you then use the Python console command Graphics.setWaterHeight 49 (for normal height - use 30 for about half-way between sea-bed and land) you can adjust the height of the water layer in game, but the city stays on the sea-bed.

The problem is that nothing below the water line is visible. I'm pretty sure that this could be fixed by editing the ZBuffer or Alpha settings in the NIF, but the major problem is there seems to be no way to edit the water.nif, if it is what is actually used to make the water.

In the directory art/terrain/water you have a file water.nif, but even if you delete all the nodes from this file in your mod directory the water still renders fine. If you change the XML reference in CIV4ArtDefines_Misc.xml from water.nif to some junk, the water still renders fine. So, if water.nif is used to create the water at all (which I am beginning to doubt) it doesn't seem to follow the same rules for modding nifs as other things... The texture files in art/terrain/water can be edited and they change the look of the water, but I haven't found a way to mod the water model itself yet.

Yeah, Dune Wars is on a little natural pause after the intensity of last year. There are still things it would be great to get done with it, so hopefully we'll pick it up again at some point.

 

[GeoModder]

Some findings on the water thing:

If you set iWaterHeight to zero in Civ4TerrainSettings.xml, then you can place cities on the sea-bed and the citysets are visible. If you then use the Python console command Graphics.setWaterHeight 49 (for normal height - use 30 for about half-way between sea-bed and land) you can adjust the height of the water layer in game, but the city stays on the sea-bed.

In which python file do we need to use this command Graphics.setWaterHeight?

The problem is that nothing below the water line is visible. I'm pretty sure that this could be fixed by editing the ZBuffer or Alpha settings in the NIF, but the major problem is there seems to be no way to edit the water.nif, if it is what is actually used to make the water.

Mmm... I have a coastal texture laying around which makes the bottom visible through the water... or else the water.dds was adjusted.

Thanks for sharing your findings, though.

 

[Deliverator]

In which python file do we need to use this command Graphics.setWaterHeight?

Not a Python file - I'm talking about doing it dynamically via the Python console. To get the console, you need to set the cheat code in the INI file to chipotle, start a game, press Ctrl-Z and then pressing the @ key (on UK keyboards at least) will open up the Python window. Then using the Graphics.setWaterHeight command will let you move the water level up and down in game which is useful for figuring out how the thing works. I guess this Python could be called on game started if this solution can be made to work.

Mmm... I have a coastal texture laying around which makes the bottom visible through the water... or else the water.dds was adjusted.

The bottom is already visible through the water texture - the problem is that any part of a unit or building below the water line is invisible. This might not be an issue if you want the sea bases to be on the water surface rather than submarine. It is strange that modding the water.nif file seems to have no effect, but perhaps the water layer is just created by something in the game engine.

You can get buildings to appear on the water's surface using this bNoWaterTest attribute in the Lsystem file, but I haven't been able to get this to affect citysets at all and I read that this approach was discounted earlier in the thread. I presumed that it should be possible to apply this attribute to the cityset entries in the Lsystem xml file, but I haven't seen that work yet.