Great Library and Army Confusions

[THEMike]

I've been reading the thread SirPleb, Going for Sid, even though I'm only playing my first Monarch level game ;-)

I'm confused by a couple of things.

Great Library

How does this work? Initially it gives you any tech that more than x number of AI players have, becoming obsolete when people learn education, is that correct? But then it becomes useful later on? How come?

Armies
When you get a great leader, you can turn them into an army in any city with a barracks correct? How do you load troops into the army? I've got one army in another game I'm playing, but I didn't get as far as putting anyone into it before I started playing the current COTM. But I still have the archer that was the great leader renamed. I'm a bit confused as to how come I still have the archer, and I have the army. And you can also build armies at the military academy?

 

[budweiser]

The Great Library stops working for you when you learn education. I'll let someone else address the other part of the question. I think the 'usefulness later' part of what you are talking about borders on an exploit.

After you turn your leader into an army, you have to move a unit into the same tile as the army. Then you will get a button on the screen that allows you to load units into the army. You do not need a barracks and it doesn't even have to be in a city. The army shell just has to be created in the city. You can add troops in the field.

Later on you can build armies in the city that has the Military academy. Up to 1 army per 4 cities you control.

 

[JG99_Korab]

The Great Library Gives you all advances ALREADY KNOWN by two other civs.

 

[Brain]

Great Library

How does this work? Initially it gives you any tech that more than x number of AI players have, becoming obsolete when people learn education, is that correct? But then it becomes useful later on? How come?

The Great Library works this way:
- You get any tech that has been discovered by at leasts 2 other civs that you know. If you don't know anyone, or you know only one other civ you don't get the free techs.
- As soon as you learn education the Great Library expires. It doesn't expire if another civ has education but you don't.

I don't know how it can be useful after it has expired except for giving you a lot of culture per turn.

Armies
When you get a great leader, you can turn them into an army in any city with a barracks correct? How do you load troops into the army? I've got one army in another game I'm playing, but I didn't get as far as putting anyone into it before I started playing the current COTM. But I still have the archer that was the great leader renamed. I'm a bit confused as to how come I still have the archer, and I have the army. And you can also build armies at the military academy?

budweiser has already answered the first part of your question.

Just to add to this, your elite archer spawns a leader, but he doesn't become a leader himself.

 

[garyg]

Also after your elite unit spawns a great leader it can't spawn anymore.
That's why you name him, so you don't waste your time having him attack red-lined opponents in hope of more leaders.

 

[chunkymonkey]

The trick with the Library works as follows:

Build it, and then give it away before you learn Education (as done by SirPleb in his game) or capture it before you learn Education. This means (for you at least) it won't have expired yet. Next turn you will gain all advances known by at least two civs, including those further up the tech tree than Education, since the trigger for Library obsoletion occurs after the inter-turn has finished. It is quite possible in this case to launch yourself from the Medieval Age to the Modern Age in one turn this way.

I did this in COTM08 by capturing the Library from the Byzantines who were already at the end of the Industrial Age. Trouble is, by the time I had managed to position my stack of 30 longbows and 30 trebuchets outside the Library city, they had garrisoned it with 5 or 6 infantry . But it still worked. I manage to launch myself into the Industrial Age and went onto win the Space race by the skin of my teeth.

It wasn't the most honourable tactic to use, but there was no way to win otherwise. It comes down to what feels right for you.

 

[vmxa]

Note this trick will not be of any use, if you capture it while all civs are just barely past Education. IOW it works best in games like Sid, because you can get so far behind in techs. It is not useful in games you are more or less even in techs.

You must avoid research or trading for ED. This is easy as you probably are not researching at all.

 

[vmxa]

You do not have to rename the unit as it will have an "*" appended to its name and be easy to spot. I do not remember when that was added, so an unpatched CivIII may not do this.

 

[budweiser]

Please note that if you upgrade the elite unit it reverts back to veteran stats and is once again a candidate for promotion and great leader generation.

 

[Xerol]

Please note that if you upgrade the elite unit it reverts back to veteran stats and is once again a candidate for promotion and great leader generation.

Except it still has the old name. It's wierd seeing "Spearman +" running around with a Rifle.

 

[THEMike]

Thanks guys that's cleared that all up for me.

I think the library "trick" seems fairly honest to me. Think in real world terms. you've started the great library it's great for educating the world. It becomes obsolete to you, so you hand it over to a lesser nation. They still use is storing the worlds knowledge. When your descendants claim back their heritage they find loads of useful stuff in it.

Seems less power-gaming than a lot of the techniques I see discussed.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Build it, and then give it away before you learn Education (as done by SirPleb in his game) or capture it before you learn Education. This means (for you at least) it won't have expired yet. Next turn you will gain all advances known by at least two civs, including those further up the tech tree than Education, since the trigger for Library obsoletion occurs after the inter-turn has finished.

For C3C, that is not entirely true. You do not get ALL techs known by at least 2 Civs.

There are notible exceptions; in short, you won't get any tech with only Edu as prerequisite, and you won't get late optional techs of eras you do not complete.

The details are highly confusing; OTOH, most of that doesn't matter for unmodded anyway.

Only the following:
*You will not get Music Theory.
*You will only get Free Artistry, Economy and Navigation if you advance into the Industrial Era.

Capturing the Great Library isn't seen as an exploit - makes perfect sense historically.
Gifting it away (the 'GLib Elevator') is clearly an exploit for many players and outroled in the SG community. But, so is the free palace jump, ship chaining and RoP raping - all of them even allowed for xotMs.

 

[chunkymonkey]

I stand corrected.

I didn't know those exceptions Doc, thanks!

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I should mention that it worked the easy way in Civ3/PtW, and that those techs you do not get hardly ever matter - even if you miss out say Navigation, you will get Demo and any mandatory tech, and thus should be able to easily trade for the missing techs.

It just is a pretty big issue for modpacks. Namely RAR. Here, you will miss out several important and expected techs, namely Absolutism.

 

[budweiser]

Gifting it away (the 'GLib Elevator') is clearly an exploit for many players and outroled in the SG community.

You should say 'outlawed' or 'ruled out'.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Uh...does 'outroled' happen to have any hidden meaning I'm not aware of, just OOC?

Nitpicker.

 

[budweiser]

I wasn't aware that outroled was even an english word.

EDIT: I only bring it up because I am assuming that english isnt your first language and I was trying to help.

 

[Wolfwood]

OT:

I wasn't aware that outroled was even an english word.

Imagine a situation in which you have two spearmen, one better in every respect than the other. Thus, the first one's "role" as a spearman is superior and he, therefore, "outroles" his fellow spearman.

 

[Tomoyo]

I always thought that "outrole" was either a noun meaning "breakout performance", or a verb meaning "to be more prominent than"...

 

[budweiser]

I always thought that "outrole" was either a noun meaning "breakout performance", or a verb meaning "to be more prominent than"...

English isn't your first language either, is it?