Great Wonders Elimination Thread

[bbbt]

With amenities, you don't want just 'functional' levels of amenities. You ideally want +3 bonus amenities per city, so your cities are Ecstatic and you get 10% to all yields. That's not as easy to maintain at all points of the game, unless you have:

Colosseum [16] 15 +1 - With the AoE effect, significant boost to culture and amenities. And that can mean +10% to all yields and extra gold from selling your luxes you don't need anymore the AI. It's also pretty easy to rush if you don't sit on it, as the AI will take a while to get around to building the prereqs.

Mont St. Michel [7] 10 - 3 - A nice wonder, but extremely niche. You either have reliquaries, or you are one of the civs with bonuses to Relics (Kongo, Poland). Especially now that there's a lot of things to purchase with faith, the prospect of trading faith for relics (via apostles) isn't quite appealing outside of those scenarios.

Alhambra [4]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [5]
Apadana [16]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [12]
Chichen Itza [1]
Colosseum [16]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [21]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [8]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [17]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [5]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [16]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [18]

 

[lotrmith]

With amenities, you don't want just 'functional' levels of amenities. You ideally want +3 bonus amenities per city, so your cities are Ecstatic and you get 10% to all yields. That's not as easy to maintain at all points of the game, unless you have:

Colosseum [16] 15 +1 - With the AoE effect, significant boost to culture and amenities. And that can mean +10% to all yields and extra gold from selling your luxes you don't need anymore the AI. It's also pretty easy to rush if you don't sit on it, as the AI will take a while to get around to building the prereqs.

Strongly agree on Colosseum. It's 2 amenities per city affected which outshines luxuries by miles (Luxuries I usually want to sell off anyways because I value the buying power of gold more early than boosts/penalties to yields that, per city, are comparatively low. But with Colosseum I get the benefit of both: amenities to get the boosts, and luxuries I can sell guilt-free). Then with that amount of Culture, early and not associated with tiles you would have to work to benefit from, this is a no brainer. Aim for it and you will hit it.


Terracotta - Strong but basically limited to Domination. You have to be fielding a large army, already with several promotions per unit, to really see a significant impact. Fringe benefits of promoting spies and etc are still fringe benefits.

Alhambra [4]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [5]
Apadana [16]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [12]
Chichen Itza [1]
Colosseum [17]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [21]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [8]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [17]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [5]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [16]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [15]

 

[enKage]

Chicken Pizza - eliminated
Weak compare to others, jungle is usually for chopping and if you want to build it before deity AI, it baically means you want to speed up with chops

Temple of Artemis +1
Magic wonder.
If AIs don't build it very fast, it basically means you can easily take a shot. Pretty essential for every heavy domestic trade but great also for every other strategy.
It is not only solid 4 food and 3 housing and amenities. It is also switching ammenities between cities, just by moving workable tiles. You assign plantations, pastures, camps to a specific city for +3 ammenities granting +20% growth, add magnus there for another 20% and chop jungles / harvest for crazy growth.
As well very cheap, very early and that mean easy thetres adjecencies

Alhambra [4]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [5]
Apadana [16]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [12]
Colosseum [17]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [21]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [8]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [17]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [5]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [16]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [19]
Terracotta Army [15]

Oxford being sub 20 points prior to downvote is a testament to it being not overrated

Or is rather testament to being popular and an evidence to being overrated. Reasons for being popular are separate case

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Alhambra [4]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [5]
Apadana [16]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [12]
Colosseum [17]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [21]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [5] (8-3) I tend to play a lot of religious games, and having tried all sorts of strategies in them, I haven't ever been converted into a fan of this one. My favorite way of playing RV is hard and fast. Get my faith economy up and running and start flooding the world with missionaries (and later apostles). Building the wonder kind of slows me down. +1 spread sounds great on paper, but whenever I'm doing RV I'm going Mosques anyways (+1 spread) and I work to get an Exodus Golden Age (+2 spreads). You can even get +2 spreads on Orator apostles. So that extra spread isn't really that important since its so easy to get the extra spreads in easier fashion. I consider this wonder a trap.
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [18] (17+1) OTOH, if I'm going to build a religious wonder, I'd rather do this. The value isn't having two apostles to immediately spread your religion; it's to instantly finish off your last two beliefs. And I don't always build it, in fact I've done well without it, but it's at least much more handy and relevant than Hagia. Plus now with the added 2 Diplo points it becomes a must-build for me in my Diplo games (where I have religion).
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [5]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [16]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [19]
Terracotta Army [15]

 

[monikernemo]

Alhambra [4]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [5]
Apadana [16]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [12]
Colosseum [17]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22] (21 + 1)
Should be alot higher. Extra wildcard slot this early in the game gives you much needed flexibility in T1 govts and flexibility in theocracy/monarchy.
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [5]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [18]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [5]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [16]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [19]
Terracotta Army [12] (15 - 3)
Terracotta army has some value in a domination game but it can be rather difficult to time this wonder properly.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Upvote: Országház 6 (5+1) This is actually a decent wonder but not for diplomacy-- rather war. If you are doing some warmongering, then the extra favor can offet penalties from occupying capitals and other grievances. Even if people hate you, they seem to pay full price for favor anyways. It's not the best wonder around but it's easy to build really anywhere and no competition.


Downvote: Temple of Artemis. 16 (19-3) This wonder is a B at best, and no reason why it should be above Colosseum. If we can downvote Collosseum because it can be lost to the AI, then certainly a wonder that comes so early and has much stricter build placement is no better. You won't even have Autocracy to help.

The only thing this wonder does is give you a bunch of amenities when you don't need them. You might see a 5%, 10% tops at a time when you're usually better off expanding and your pop is low so amenities aren't even a problem to begin with. In addition there's a delay since you also need build charges to improve said luxuries./pastures. Of course, this is a great wonder to quickly rush a pop 10 city though as Brazil or Kongo or something. There's also other times when the AI forgets about it and it's great but that's not that common. Running River Goddess has a similar effect and also much less risk.


Alhambra [4]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [5]
Apadana [16]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [12]
Colosseum [17]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [5]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [18]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [6]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [16]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [16]
Terracotta Army [12]

 

[kaspergm]

Alhambra [5] (4+1) - While I agree the time for Alhambra to go is soon, I think there are a couple others that should go before. A policy card slot is still a policy card slot, even if it's a red one, and no matter whether you play domination or not, there will be at least some useful cards you can slot into it, like reduced upkeep, extra movement, extra amenities from garrison or reduced upgrade cost.
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [2] (5-3) - Between its late appearance (and therefore high production cost) and very strict conditions for maximum benefit, this is probably the weakest of the remaining lot. The fact that any city that meets the 5 ice tile requirement is going to be late founded, small population and low production city, pulling this off successfully for a significant impact is rare and most likely requires you to expend charges from a wonder engineer that might be better used on something else (Ruhr Valley for instance).
Apadana [16]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [12]
Colosseum [17]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [5]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [18]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [6]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [16]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [16]
Terracotta Army [12]

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Alhambra [6] 5+1 A policy slot is always useful and a military one can be really helpful in non domination victories where you're running governments with less of them.

Colosseum [14] 17-3 Overrated wonder, the opportunity cost is so high it's crippling if you miss it, one I very rarely build as I can't justify an Entertainment Complex that early. The one situation I sometimes build it is when I conquer an AI city that has the EC already, then yes it's quite valuable but that's not the rules we are using for this thread.

Alhambra [6]
Apadana [16]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [12]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [5]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [18]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [6]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [16]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [16]
Terracotta Army [12]

 

[TCBB]

Temple of Artemis [17] (16+1) What is it with this forum and people trying to out-do one another with deliberately outlandish opinions? Temple of Artemis is not “B tier”; nor is it correct to say that it “isn’t a game changer”, as someone said earlier. Every single tier list I have seen online, either on YouTube (eg. PotatoMcWhisky, SaxyGamer) or on forums, rates Temple of Artemis as one of the best wonders in the game – easily top 10 and arguably top 5. It arrives early, it (generally) doesn’t get pursued by the AI, and it creates an absolutely titanic city early in the game – not because of the amenities but because of the extra housing and food (though the amenities are also nice). So let’s quit with all this “I know better than thou” revisionism, yeah? There’s a boat tonne of wonders still here that deserve our attention first.

Hagia Sophia [2] (5-3) Extra apostle charges are never bad, by any means. But it’s undeniable that this wonder tends to have a limited impact, as previous posters have explained.

Alhambra [6]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [2]
Apadana [16]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [12]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [2] (5-3)
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [18]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [6]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [16]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [17] (16+1)
Terracotta Army [12]

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Temple of Artemis (18) (17+1) I was planning to upvote St Basil’s Cathedral because I just tried a Sweden - Reliquaries - Martyrdom game, and wow, that was a lot of tourism/faith from one wonder. But I’m not happy with these downvotes for Temple of Artemis. I said it earlier, it’s the best wonder in the game in my opinion. For those focussing on the amenities, you’re looking in the wrong place: it’s the housing & food combo which makes it so good. Build it in your capital and it’ll blast off to population 10 faster than you can say ‘deer god, my snowball has begun’.

Terracotta Army (9) (12-3) Personally, I’ve never found it worthwhile. Promotions are great and all – I was a big advocate of Kabul in the city-state elimination thread – but if you’re doing domination then I feel the production would be better spent on, you know, more units.

Alhambra [6]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [2]
Apadana [16]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [12]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [2]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [18]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [6]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [16]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18] (17+1)
Terracotta Army [9] (12-3)

 

[JhGf_123]

Apadana: Also prepared to defend Temple of Artemis. But I upvoted it recently so I’ll go for Apadana instead. If you manage to get it (and that’s sometimes a big if), it’s a really strong wonder for envoy generation. Plus, two slots for writing is quite powerful early game for tourism rushes.

Bolshoi Theatre: on the other hand, the slots this wonder provides arrive so late that they’re firmly a ‘win-more’ accessory. And free civics are very hit-and-miss. Plenty of better options remaining.

Alhambra [6]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [2]
Apadana [17] (16+1)
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [9] (12-3)
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [2]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [18]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [6]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [16]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [9]

 

[Leucarum]

I rarely care about millitary policy cards, usually they get slotted in and slotted out as required. Hence the Alhambra gets my downvote. I'd rather spend my production on something that shakes up my game.

Ruhr Valley on the other hand can turbocharge production. Easy to plan for, very useful for a science victory.

Alhambra [3]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [2]
Apadana [17]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [9]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [2]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [18]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [6]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [17]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [9]

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Great Library +1: This one I actually like. It's not a top tier wonder, nor an essential wonder by any means, but if I can try to snag it in a culture game, I certainly will. Doesn't have too much of an opportunity cost as I usually have a campus with a library down anyway, even if it can be challenging to actually get. Extra writing slots, random tech boosts for the rest of the game and some innate science makes this a rather decent wonder to invest in for the cultural player who won't be pushing science too hard.
Országház -3: As @Noble Zarkon pointed out, the opportunity cost on Colosseum is absolutely brutal, and this makes the wonder severely overrated. However, It's sitting nice and pretty at 14 points now so I'm not going to downvote it right now since there are worse wonders out there (though I might have to again if it gets closer to top 10 or, god forbid, top 5). Országház is one of these bad wonders. In a typical game at Immortal/Deity, I often just have the suzerainty of 1-2 city states (as I generally value the envoy bonuses more). That leaves me with perhaps 2 additional DP each turn, maybe 3 or 4 if I'm feeling generous. So late into the game, this is just very bad and not really a return on investment. Plus it doesn't really help for a diplo victory, since aid requests, competitions, certain wonders like Statue of Liberty and voting for the right outcome is what wins you the points (granted, voting for the right outcome is slightly easier with Országház). It also comes way too late for it to make much of an impact, and since Civ 6 doesn't let you choose which proposals are brought up at the WC, I often find myself not caring for the alternatives anyway. Will build it if noone else will, but only if I have an idle city with nothing else to do, and only if I wouldn't mind the (very slight) tourism boost in a culture game. On the other hand, a wonder should never really be built solely due to it's innate tourism.


Alhambra [3]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [2]
Apadana [17]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [9]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [2]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [18]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [7]
Oracle [22]
Országház [3]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [17]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [9]

 

[iammaxhailme]

Mont St. Michel: While it isn't good for every victory type, I think secret societies mode indirectly made it a very good wonder via joining the voidsingers. Old God Obelisks have tons of slots that can be used for relics and adds a bunch of new relics to circulation, making an easy source of relics very good for culture victory. Of course cultists are even easier, but they come later


Terracotta Army: Instant heals on your army is great but it's one-time use and its other bonuses are practically negligible imo.

Alhambra [3]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [2]
Apadana [17]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [9]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [2]
Kilwa Kisiwani [25]
Mahabodhi Temple [18]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [8] (7 + 1)
Oracle [22]
Országház [3]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [17]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6] (9-3)

 

[Francel]

Here are my top six "S-Class" wonders:

1) Kilwa Kisiwani
2) Oracle
3) Mausoleum at Halicarnassus
4) Temple of Artemis
5) Forbidden City
6) Big Ben

Slightly lower, here is my A Tier:
Colosseum, Pyramids, Petra, Potala Palace, Oxford University, Cristo Redentor, and Eiffel Tower.


Alhambra [3]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [2]
Apadana [17]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [9]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [2]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26] (25+1) - Let's be real this one is almost certainly the best. Unless you have some monumental bad luck and you don't have more than one of the same city state available, all of your cities will get +15% of that yield type. If you happen to suzerain two industrial city states, this city gets +30% production, and all other cities get +15% production. Ruhr Valley, by comparison, only gives one city +20% production. Also, three extra envoys makes the wonder easier to leverage immediately.
Mahabodhi Temple [15] (18-3) - You may know that I am a religion/faith oriented player. This wonder is really only good for +2 diplomatic victory points. I don't think of the 2 apostles as much benefit for a few reasons. Two apostles cost 830 faith for both. That's really hardly anything over the course of a game. Sure, you get them early, but I find that there is no real advantage to being the first to enhance a religion. I seldom miss out on getting the enhancer beliefs I want. On the other hand, if a great person costs 5000 faith to patronize normally, the Oracle lowers the cost by 1000 faith - exceeding the benefit from Mahabodi in just one use. Yes, I love oracle When you have a high faith output, it doesn't take long at all to generate two apostles worth of faith, so again, besides the dv points, you're not getting much. Plus, you burn a woods tile.
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [8] (7 + 1)
Oracle [22]
Országház [3]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [17] - I was going to downvote this, because you're spending a lot of hammers to get a lot of hammers. Rounding for easy math, if Ruhr Valley costs 1200 production, and the city that builds it has 80 production per turn, you'll finish the wonder in 15 turns. With the extra production (+20), you'll need 60 turns to "break even." Luckily for Ruhr fans, I'm quite indecisive.
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6] (9-3)

 

[Jewelrunna]

If we're leaving our personal top fives, mine looks like Pyramids, Kilwa, Oracle, Mausoleum, and Colosseum. Actually, I'll extend it to a top six to put Forbidden City in there too.

Amundsen-Scott Research Station [ELIMINATED] (2 - 3): This wonder has a place where it can be strong, because its bonuses are inherently good, but due to how late in the game this wonder comes and how hard it can be to build because of its placement restrictions, this wonder will always be niche.

Alhambra [4] (3 + 1): Extra policy cards are inherently game-breaking, even in their weakest form. I feel like Alhambra can't possibly drop below the B-Tier of wonders in this list, because its effect is just inherently good. Having Alhambra allows you to more easily socket in Logistics, Resource Management, Military Research, Force Modernization; I could go on, but the point is there's a lot of really useful military policy cards that Alhambra allows you to use without feeling like you're screwing up your government. The amenities and GG points are also good. Don't let this wonder go earlier than it needs to.

Alhambra [4]
Amundsen-Scott Research Station [ELIMINATED]
Apadana [17]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [9]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [2]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [15]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [8]
Oracle [22]
Országház [3]
Oxford University [17]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [17]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[Josephias]

+1) Hagia Sophia (2 >> 3), I'll break a lance, if hopeless for Hagia Sophia. It is not the general +1 charge that is powerful, but the specific +1 charge in your Proselitizers and Translators, once you get them. Being able to extend the lifespan of these powerful apostles by +33% is quite relevant, as it decreases the chance dependency on your apostle strategy. (On polemists, it means as well you can use them 3 times for conversion instead of 2, which implies a +50% increase). I recognize this would not allow to keep this wonder alive much more, but it is a view to be considered.

-3) Oxford University (17 >> 14) With Broadway, Sancore, and Amundsenn gone and Bolshoi already going downhill, it's maybe time to adjust also Oxford position. The two free tech may give it an edge (but Bolshoi also provides 2 civics), and while it can be argued tech is more important to SV than culture to CV, the fact they are random diminishes the potential effectivity.

(minor point on already eliminated wonders) BTW, completely unrelated, and maybe I am completely wrong, but I tought Great Zimbabwe worked with ITR as much as with DTR. (It's all TR coming out of the Great Zimbabwe city isn't it?) Just because this (foregoing ITR for DTR) was one of the reasons given to explain its elimination.

Alhambra [4]
Apadana [17]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [9]
Colosseum [14]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [3]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [15]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [8]
Oracle [22]
Országház [3]
Oxford University [14]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [17]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Between its late appearance (and therefore high production cost) and very strict conditions for maximum benefit, this is probably the weakest of the remaining lot. The fact that any city that meets the 5 ice tile requirement is going to be late founded, small population and low production city, pulling this off successfully for a significant impact is rare and most likely requires you to expend charges from a wonder engineer that might be better used on something else (Ruhr Valley for instance).

Honestly, no one builds this Wonder and cares about the extra bonus for cities with 5+ snow tiles. You build this Wonder to buff up your core cities in terms of science and production to unlock science victory techs faster and finish space projects quicker. The extra bonus for cities with extra snow tiles is irrelevant.



Alhambra [4] <= Not a big fan of this one since as I said, you don't need it for a domination game, and for a peaceful game, you can make do by slotting things in and out more often. Reduced upkeep is weak when your army is small and largely defensive. Cheap upgrade can be done by using the changing government trick so you can get the card in and out within the same turn. +1 Movement in friendly territory most of the time only benefits your civilians when you are playing peacefully. A few useful military cards like Resource Management, Veterancy, Military Research or Integrated Space Cell all have their usefulness peak at different points of the game, so you never feel you have to slot them in all at the same time. This wonder is a minor convenience for people who don't maximize efficiency by customizing their policies often more than anything. Should go after Hagia, Mont St. Michel and probably Library but definitely not top 10 material.
Apadana [17]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [9]
Colosseum [15] If you have time and production to overcome the opportunity cost of Alhambra, you have time and production to try and build this thing. The culture is nice, but 2 amenities in 6 tiles mean those cities are so much closer to ecstatic, a.k.a 10% bonus to all non-food yields. I can guarantee you that the AIs have higher priority for Alhambra than this one. 1000+ hours, never seen Alhambra survives past Medieval, consistently see Colosseum at least 3 eras after it is unlocked.
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [3]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [15]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [8]
Oracle [22]
Országház [3]
Oxford University [14]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [14] The more i play this game, the more I feel the +20% yield for one city Wonder trope very lackluster. If Colosseum and Oxford is at 14, no reason for this thing to be at 17. There were numerous changes throughout many patches to production that we see although it is still valuable, it is not as rare and hard to get a city to be a megacity without this wonder.
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[bengalryan9]

Alhambra [4]
Apadana [17]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10] (9+1) Its effects may be pretty mediocre (though you can easily get some pretty expensive civics for free if you plan for it), but I'm telling you guys - there's not an easier wonder in the game to build. It sits around forever (I don't think I've ever seen the AI build it, let alone in a timely manner) and all it requires is to be next to a theater square (which will boost your TS adjacency). Even the music slot is somewhat useful because it comes at a time when you probably need one. It probably won't stick around much longer but the fact that's it's such an easy build count for a lot on my book. I build it every single game.
Colosseum [15]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [8]
Hagia Sophia [eliminated] (3-3) Has value, but mostly only if you're going for religious victory. As has been pointed out, even if you're going that route extra charges only take you so far - winning theological combat is the way to go.
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [15]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [8]
Oracle [22]
Országház [3]
Oxford University [14]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [14]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [6]

 

[GunsGermsandSteel]

Alhambra [4]
Apadana [17]
Big Ben [19]
Bolshoi Theatre [10]
Colosseum [15]
Cristo Redentor [19]
Eiffel Tower [20]
Forbidden City [22]
Great Library [5]
Kilwa Kisiwani [26]
Mahabodhi Temple [15]
Mausoleum at Halicarnassus [23]
Mont St. Michel [8]
Oracle [22]
Országház [3]
Oxford University [14]
Petra [16]
Potala Palace [15]
Pyramids [25]
Ruhr Valley [14]
St. Basil's Cathedral [15]
Statue of Liberty [10]
Temple of Artemis [18]
Terracotta Army [7]

Great Library 5 = 8-3. This wonder has a niche in that it's really more for culture victories to get a boost to early science. There are two problems though. 1) I generally find early tech boosts to be easy enough to get. 2) You need to earn 2 great scientists to get the boost to for the civic that unlocks this wonder. It's in a bit of an odd spot.

Terracotta Army 7 = 6+1. As it stands this is the best military wonder that supports domination. Go a head an argue with me but until we get a Temple of Zeus(Civ 5 style) this wonder does wonders for your marauding army. Promotions are a big deal towards unit effectiveness/flexibility and they become harder to earn as the unit gets more experienced - getting a 3rd/4th promotion is a game changer. When this wonder comes I'll already have the bulk of my core army that I keep throughout the ages. I think these elimination threads take such an anti-war stance which is why this wonder has been down-voted.