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Guide to 500k+ scores through Huge map domination on Immortal difficulty

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by VirusMonster, Jan 28, 2008.

  1. killercane

    killercane Deity

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    Thats a whole 'nother chapter. Sids Sushi is the One, put it in your holy city (you hopefully got a priest to build the shrine for whatever religion most of the AI are) along with Wall Street since you have such high costs using these corporations. Try to obtain as many coastal cities as possible and the resources of course. One tile islands are very nice.

    Executives cost 200 hammers at marathon, and I have tried just purchasing them for 500ish gold a pop. You can turn off research at medicine if you have Physics already and the great scientist. Pop off a golden age here if you can to go into the -25% corporate cost civic; maybe you can take environmentalism work later after most everything is bought.

    National Park you can probably put in your highest food city along with Globe so you dont have to raise the lux slider to compensate for a single city's high growth rate.

    Another thing is to obtain Mausolleum of Mausolos as early as possible. Its worth 2 golden ages at least. I would hate to build it, rather take it, but perhaps it is indeed worth building. I havent had it in time in either of the two games so far.

    GP Needs Rundown
    Scientist-academy
    Priest- shrine for uber religious city (worth +70 gold when put in last go around)
    Scientist- education
    Merchant- Sushi (free at Econ)
    Scientist- Golden age (free at Sci Method)
    Artist- Golden age (free at Music)
    Spy- Golden Age (free at Communism)
    +3 more of various types for your 4th golden age

    Total of 96 turns in golden age (about 20% of the game).

    Things for further study:
    Research post medicine/refrigeration- go on to Future Tech if score is still increasing? What is the value of future tech?
    Christo Redentor- worth it or no? No more need for golden ages to civic change and allows for easier environmentalism.
     
  2. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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    Future techs (+1 raw score) have almost no effect on final score, since finishing early matters much more. You could probably change to environmentalism on the last turn of your 4th Golden Age and avoid needing Christo Redentor.

    Holy cities on a huge map are great. I wished I captured more in my 500k game.
     
  3. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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    This strategy is a bit luck dependent, because:

    1) Initial worker stealing could be problematic.
    2) Horse are rare. Not every 2 gold or 2 gem start will yield horses nearby. I tried a Huge Terra game where I researched Fishing&Sailing&Writing, just so I could connect the distant Horses using Open Borders, rivers, and coastal traderoutes.

    settlertohorseriver.JPG

    3) Late horses mean late harass. Late harass means, AI has better chance to produce a few spearman :-/ A few spearman would definitely beat your harassing Immortals.
    3) If you delay researching IronWorking, how would you know which mine to pillage? Last game, I thought I had a great start, but spears appeared because I delayed researching IronWorking. Priesthood tech path is risky.
    4) Oracle got build at 1770BC in my recent Terra Huge game. Can't really beat that date without Marble around :-/ Or I should have chopped 5 forests at 60 hammers each and poprushed the rest, but did not manage to steal enough workers initially.


    In conclusion, I believe producing the inital worker yourself with Darius is best idea. Next, 2-3 warriors can be sent to worker stealing. Research path should be (Animal Husbandry (to work pigs or cows in BFC)-> Mining (to speed up research) -> Wheel (Immortals can be produced now) -> BronzeWorking -> IronWorking. I think Oracle is a big gambit, and the Oracle tech path might delay other areas of research. I would rather tech quickly to Currency to trade away AI gold.
     
  4. killercane

    killercane Deity

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    Well, I take this as a guide on how to achieve an optimal score in BTS, not just win on Huge Immortal. So no, making a worker first yourself is not the best idea, as producing two warriors should give you size 2 with 2 workers as opposed to size 1 still when you research mining or animal husbandry. Free is the best game in town!

    1) Maybe, but I find it is 85% successful. It takes practice actually though, funny as that sounds.
    2) Maybe again, but out of 5 maps started on these settings I had horses within 10-12 tiles every time.
    3) Well maybe. Kill their metal first!
    4) Pillage all the mines. If they have a bunch of mines AND have hooked up iron AFTER researching all that way you are either too slow or the AI is too far away to mess with. If a mine appears on plains or grassland, obviously thats what you want to pillage.
    5) Sure enough. This is why I didnt build it first time around, its 50/50 with the new prioritization on it by the AI. But optimally you want to build it. The superoptimal start is CS slingshot but research is too slow unless you really want to risk it going late. Maybe with only 10 opponents you can achieve this if you are able to reach them all in time to keep them from working hammer tiles. Hard to do.

    So future tech is out unless you have nothing else to do. I was thinking the +health and happy might be useful. Good discussion!
     
  5. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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    I used mapfinder to regenerate 120 Terra Huge starts. Only 1 of them had 2 gold resources :)

    Then, I had a fantastic start. Mining and BronzeWorking popped from the hut. Had Horse nearby. Built Oracle on time and choose Code of Laws. Harassed very successfully.

    How did I ruin it? Well, make you sure are in good diplomatic relations against a Bronze or Iron owner. Adjust your religion to be friends with him. Also, as KillerCane suggested send Immortals to all AIs nearby. I only harassed 3 of them. I should have harassed like at least 6 :-/ The AI won't attack your Immortals with archers except when he has like 5-6 archers inside the city.
     
  6. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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    argghghhhhh :mad: Another fantastic start ruined because I pushed my chances too much :) I got a very cool 2 gold start. Successfully stole 3 workers before 3250BC. This time I sent 1-2 Immortals to 6 AIs, and on top, the WarChariot Quest showed up. Reward is CombatI to all Immortals, so I didn't want to miss it. Pillaged all metal and mines. The AIs could not do anything. Some of the very distant AIs declared war, but they were so far away that it did not matter.

    Now, here is how I ruined this game. I stayed with my initial 2 cities until 1770BC and tried manually researching Mathematics, so I could get Currency with Oracle and also chop it with +90 :hammers: each instead of +60 :hammers: But I also did not want to reach Mathematics quickly, because Math would obsolete the WarChariot quest. I needed to produce 12 WarChariots and just the turn after I completed the WarChariot Quest, I discovered Mathematics.

    Wonderful you think? :) Now I should be able to get Currency with the Oracle. I had already pre-chopped forests near my capital, so I should be able to build the Oracle in 1 turn.

    But what happened :) The one AI nearby I left untouched, Isabella, because I thought she would build Pyramids with the Stone nearby, completes the Oracle :( Puff...

    Here is the save: View attachment VirusMonster BC-1750uffff.CivBeyondSwordSave

    I also realize now that probably the earlier Oracle would have made more :gp: and the gap in :science: between Code of Law and Currency is minimal. I should have build the Oracle before 2000BC, chosen CoL, then none of this would have happened. Or harassed Isabella too, but then I would miss the chance to control the Pyramids :-/

    I am gonna play safer if I try again.
     
  7. killercane

    killercane Deity

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    I looked at your save. You have the immortals fortified everywhere; maybe this is just so you can look over your deployment, but I find that moving them around opens up a lot of possibilities, like there in Peters land after moving I see a worker working that can be taken next turn. BTS AI doesnt compute 2 move units very well. Also your workers are fortified, surely they can be doing something low priority nearby and not resting; sometimes you can begin a cottage or mine on the forest while you wait.

    Also, I would look to expand more than 2 cities to get a 3rd immortal producer. Just find a pop 2, 2 archer, non hill AI city that you arent at war with and send 3 immos there to take it; or bait the AI to move his archer stack to a peripheral city and take the capital. These opportunities should be plentiful in the early going. Your research looks good, and Oracle would have been nice on such a nice map! :goodjob:

    I think safe is the way to go for sure. No reason to risk nice maps with crazy slingshots.
     
  8. Methos

    Methos HoF Quattromaster Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    @killercane: Any chance of a write up on your 700k game?
     
  9. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    Izzy seems to love building the Oracle in my games.
     
  10. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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    @Paradigmshifter: As you said, the problem with Izzy is she acquires way too many religions :religion: It is very usual in my games that she gets Buddhism, Judaism, and Confucianism (through Oracle). Ideally, you want the Egyptians get the early religions so they can get an early prophet through their Obelisk and build the religious shrines. Then, hopefully, you can capture their holy city :)

    Izzy does not seem to get any GreatProphets until much later in the game.

    @killercane: yea a 3rd city is a must. Or a better located horse city that can actually grow to size 4-5 while producing those early Immortals. In the save I posted, there was no good food resource around that horse city.

    My Immortals were patrolling the mines, since I was being paranoid about AI discovering Iron somewhere :) If you saw them fortified, it is most likely because they did an oppurtunistic attack on one of AI archers and were healing their wounds.
     
  11. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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    Another attempt ruined, because I produced my inital Immortals too late. I managed to produce a 2nd settler due to a 3gem start and had 3 cities, but then messed up by attempting to hook up Marble. Workers were busy hooking up the Marble instead of the Horse, and the Immortals arrived too late.

    I believe you can build 2 settlers successfully and still complete the Oracle in time near 2000BC, but you need to get those Immortals out as soon as possible.
     
  12. killercane

    killercane Deity

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    Working on another, when it gets done I will give a good writeup.
     
  13. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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    edit: I've just looked at your saves again. You had 9 cities at 1000BC, not 17 :) Wow, I had a great start then with 10 cities at 1200BC :)
    -------------------------

    I have tried sufficient games to say that you can't always pillage all nearby Bronze and Horses successfully. Even if you have a great start, warmongering AIs have a high chance of hooking up horse or bronze before your Immortals appear on their borders. There is a high chance you are surrounded by AIs who already possess Chariots or Spearman.

    The problem is that your inital city gets build too late. In your 700k game, you build your 2nd city at 2400BC, and captured your first 2 cities near 1900BC. Well in my Darius games, it is not uncommon for AIs already have spears by 2150-2100BC :-/

    Compared to my game, where I already had 4-5 cities at 2400 BC, your initial war production comes in too late. I'm thinking maybe researching BronzeWorking after Mining might be a better idea to chop 2 settlers before the inital rush. You'll also get your first city earlier. Only the capital should build barracks, second and third cities should poprush Immortals at size 2.

    ---

    my recent attempt: 3175BC, and the nearby Caesar hooks up Horse :-/

    --

    yet another attempt: 3475BC: Lincoln builds pasture on horse.
     
  14. killercane

    killercane Deity

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    Hard to say. I just go with the flow. With 10 opponents you dont need to pillage much, if any. Just go round up the neighbors.

    P.S. I played a Terra map with not really ideal conditions (settle on PH, grassland cow, 1 gold capital) , but it went well and Im working on the writeup finally.
     

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  15. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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  16. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    Congratulations Killer. :clap:
     
  17. tycoonist

    tycoonist Deity

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    world record not just beaten but smashed. they should put you in the Guinness Book of World Records
     
  18. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    I wonder how high this can get..... probably 1,3 , 1,4 million ?

    In fact this only shows that the higher scoring in game = 15k + is simply innadequate ;)
     
  19. VirusMonster

    VirusMonster Quechua General

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    I've looked up his saves :) The max possible population is something like 2800, and at victory date he had 2700 score on population :) He fought his way to control more than half of the main continent and settled almost all of the New World. He could have finished the game much earlier, but milked like mad. Actually, the turn he won, his score was still going up like 2-3k per turn.

    Sushi was giving +14 :food: Not as ideal as a water-rich +25-35 :food: map, but still good.

    His starting position and early game is far from ideal, but he stick to it. Early Academy near 1500BC. He had both Stone and Marble early on which helped him build some nice wonders. He did not build the Oracle in the 2000-1500BC period, but there was no Isabella this game, so he still managed to finish it between 1300-1000BC.

    I've looked at this 1390BC save. He controls 12 cities with a total of 30 population. Research has almost halted, but the Oracle and cottages will speed things up soon. And the problem of AI massing archers to guard their capital is also hurting him when capturing London.

    Really nice game actually, but I think you need a very good PC to survive late game :) He had like 140 cities in the late game, and I had major delays opening the city advisor screen :)

    Killercane :goodjob: again for being the first person to cross 1M score!
     
  20. killercane

    killercane Deity

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    I think the 17 cities was my 589k game that I didnt submit. I still have the saves if you want those.

    This made me laugh. Thanks Tycoonist and Classical!
     

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