Guide to 500k+ scores through Huge map domination on Immortal difficulty

[r_rolo1]

Not exactly 10 %, tycoonist.....

Here is the <goodies> part of Immortal section of the handicaps file (in BtS of course )

<Goodies>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_MAP</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_MAP</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_WARRIOR</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_SCOUT</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_EXPERIENCE</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_HEALING</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
</Goodies>

As you can see, if you use a non scout, the probability of popping a tech is 2/20 = 10% like you said. But for a scout/explorer ( not sure about spies ,but I assume the same... if I'm wrong correct me ) ,that is killercane's scenario ( you can't ferry normal units in Persian caravels ... ), it becomes 2/13 ( scouts can't pop barbs from huts ... and I'm overlooking the rare instances that a scout receives nothing from a hut because it draws barbs ten times in a row ( awful coding IMHO... ) Edit: I made the calculations... in Immortal the probability of getting nothing from a hut popped by a scout is (7/20)^10 = 2,75*10^-5 ..... far easier to get a pike beating a gunship ), a little more than 15%

In most cases in Immortal you'll get Astro from a hut if you can pop 10 huts after having Music... in a huge Terra map it is not that hard.

 

[VirusMonster]

Where can I learn which techs belong to Ancient and Classical age? Astronomy is not a classical age technology, is it?

 

[WastinTime]

it will only work on tiny maps unfortunately :-/ so not much use for the highest score discussion.

Why do you say it only works on Tiny? The same thing can be done on huge. You wipe out 2 AI and have 4 cities. Only 8 AI left.

I did the whole thing with the original free Quechua, I never built any. The odds aren't that bad. You use the worker lure as you said.

The reason this discussion is not going to be fruitful is because the worker lure trick doesn't work in BTS. That's the kind of start you would want though. If you can emulate that kind of start on BTS Diety, you're on your way to 2 million. Maybe 2 or 3 quechua can do it instead of the 1. Even if it's only a 5% success rate, it's easy to start a couple dozen games and get one that works.

 

[r_rolo1]

Where can I learn which techs belong to Ancient and Classical age? Astronomy is not a classical age technology, is it?

Best way is to go to worldbuilder and check which techs are added when you choose to add techs per era. And astro is not by far a classical tech

 

[VirusMonster]

and then how do you explain Astro and Drama are still in the list of pop technologies? Could there be more hut techs that you are not aware? Is there any article on this?

 

[VirusMonster]

I have been getting animal husbandry and the wheel a lot from huts on Immortal. And of course Astronomy is almost always free on Terra maps. My thinking now is to conquer everyone prior to their ability to build HG and this would allow you to get free music from a hut on the new continent as well and not worry about losing it to an AI by having to research it.

Isn't Music a Medieval era technology? How can a hut give Music?

Drama is still classical age btw, Astronomy seems to be the only non-ancient and non-classical age technology huts give.

 

[r_rolo1]

Sorry , I meant Music in my posts instead of Drama Killercane is right ( by some unknown reason I always confuse Drama with Music ).

Probably there is a article on that, but I'm not aware of that... AFAIK only Music and Astro ,from the post classic era techs, can be popped by a hut.

 

[VirusMonster]

Well, that is so nice to know They are pretty expensive, and you might not have to research for them, but you need early Optics if you want to be the first to Music.

 

[killercane]

Terra was chosen. It has a nice domination limit, and it also means you have a nice new world to colonize, picking out the best food spots well before the AI can grab them up. It also provides a safety net in case you destroy too many AIs; you normally HAVE to get to the new world to reach domination so you could theoretically eliminate most of the AIs in the old world without worrying about domination. Finally, using Terra essentially gives you a free tech, Astronomy; there are so many huts on the new continent on huge size, that ferrying over a scout/explorer with caravels gives a very good chance to pop it out, saving several turns of research. The following are the techs that can be popped from huts, perhaps you can get more than astronomy with a fine tuning of tactics:

=====Ancient=====15=
Fishing
Hunting
Mining
Mysticism
Agriculture
Archery
Priesthood
The Wheel
Masonry
Pottery
Animal Husbandry
Sailing
Bronze Working
Writing
Horseback Riding
=====Classical======10=
Literature
Iron Working
Mathematics
Drama
Monarchy
Calendar
Construction
Compass
Currency
Metal Casting
=====Medieval======1=
Music
=====Renaissance=====1=
Astronomy

Speed- Marathon

Low Sea Level

10 AIs- this gives you a 56% domination limit as opposed to 51% with 17 AIs.

Barbs- None

Goody Huts- On. On deity you may consider turning huts off as they help the AI too much, but on Immortal you benefit even if you never pop a single hut. The AI researches comparatively slow, and you do too in the beginning. If a couple of AI pop key techs early, you get a research bonus for them knowing the tech. Usually you can get a couple hundred gold as well, allowing for maximum research in the early going.

Rivals- Mansa, the Germanies, the Indians, Mehmed, Washington, and Elizabeth

(from whatever it is Im writing, article or guide or whatever you want to call it)

 

[ck07]

Not exactly 10 %, tycoonist.....

Here is the <goodies> part of Immortal section of the handicaps file (in BtS of course )

<Goodies>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_MAP</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_MAP</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_WARRIOR</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_SCOUT</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_EXPERIENCE</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_HEALING</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
				<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
</Goodies>

.....

I have tried to edit this to eliminate the "map" result, which I hate. Used notepad. But after several attempts I was still getting results where I would pop a hut and get no result plus some assorted odd behavior. My conclusion is that there must be a hidden carriage return that I'm failing to delete.

Has anyone succeeded in editing this?

 

[r_rolo1]

The best place to ask that is in the Creation and costumization, but I'll toss my dime.....

All of the entries of the <goodies> have 20 entries... have you deleted the map entry or you changed maps for something else?

 

[ck07]

Terra was chosen. It has a nice domination limit, and it also means you have a nice new world to colonize, picking out the best food spots well before the AI can grab them up. It also provides a safety net in case you destroy too many AIs; you normally HAVE to get to the new world to reach domination so you could theoretically eliminate most of the AIs in the old world without worrying about domination. Finally, using Terra essentially gives you a free tech, Astronomy; there are so many huts on the new continent on huge size, that ferrying over a scout/explorer with caravels gives a very good chance to pop it out, saving several turns of research.

But if you do more than pop huts, what about the maintenance penalty for too many cities on another continent? Tried this in a continents game and found that the penalty was as huge as described. Releasing them as a vassal: 1) loses that land toward your domination %, which is annoying since capitulations apparently do count; and 2) causes any current vassals to leave you.

Moving the capital is no solution: even if you wind up with more land in the Americas, the difference in development is bound to be huge.

?

 

[r_rolo1]

Forbidden palace or versailles, maybe? SP would be a option, if they didn't blocked corps

 

[ck07]

Forbidden palace or versailles, maybe? SP would be a option, if they didn't blocked corps

FP and Versailles eliminate the normal distance penalty, but do they affect the "wrong continent" penalty?

SP?

 

[r_rolo1]

State property... sorry for the jargon

 

[killercane]

But if you do more than pop huts, what about the maintenance penalty for too many cities on another continent? Tried this in a continents game and found that the penalty was as huge as described. Releasing them as a vassal: 1) loses that land toward your domination %, which is annoying since capitulations apparently do count; and 2) causes any current vassals to leave you.

Moving the capital is no solution: even if you wind up with more land in the Americas, the difference in development is bound to be huge.

?

The only solution I know is to switch back and forth between State Property (to gather $$$) and another civic (free market or environmentalism at the every end); I assume you mean during the milk portion here or are you talking in a normal game?

The maintenance is one of the biggest problems; hence Darius rather than someone like Inca.

 

[VirusMonster]

It would be best to conquer the inital continent as much as possible to avoid needing colonization. My feeling is that colonies are same as vassals and count only 1/2 toward land and population score.

 

[VirusMonster]

The only solution I know is to switch back and forth between State Property (to gather $$$) and another civic (free market or environmentalism at the every end); I assume you mean during the milk portion here or are you talking in a normal game?

The maintenance is one of the biggest problems; hence Darius rather than someone like Inca.

Hmm, but late game you seem to farm everyting. I don't see much cottages in your final save. I guess that did not happen in a single turn, so there was a long period of time where you did not take advantage of the Financial extra commerce bonus. How is Darius helpful in that case to compensate expenses?

The main advatage of Darius is the fantastic early harass with Immortals. They are pretty good at city capturing as well. And financial does help to reach the Sushi earlier and stock some gold for late game maintenance expenses, but late game financial starts getting useless if you want to take advantage of the farms.

On your final save, the total maintenance you pay per turn is around 10k Say a town is generating +8 under FreeSpeech. Then, say you cottage the 20 squares around a city, and add in the gold multiplier buildings at 100% rate. 320 from a single city. To compansate your expenses you will need roughly 10 000 / 320 = 30-35 fully cottaged cities. Rest can be set on full farms. On final save you had 140 cities, but roughly half of them were on the New World, so they only counted 1/2 toward land and population limit.

Organized trait was saving you 886 per turn on final save. Compared to the total 10k expenses, Organized is not a very important late game money saver, but nevertheless, it was compansating a more significant portion of total expenses in the early and mid-game.

I think Darius is probably the best leader for a shot on future 1M+ scores. You might not believe it, but Charlamange is the best leader to cut down late game costs. He would have reduced the 10K expenses down to something around 6K.

Late game math on Charlamange vs. Darius would be:

3.5k saved from maintenance for Charlamange, 1.3k saved from inflation for Charlamange again, -850 for not being Organized, -1k for not being financial (20 more per city * 25 full commerce cities * 100% gold multiplier). He would outperform Darius in late game by 3k gold per turn.

In conclusion, Charlamange beats any Financial or Organized leader in late game, including Darius. Yet, he won't have an as good early game, so probably not the best 1M+ scorer.

 

[WastinTime]

Thx for digging up those numbers. I would have thought Org was better than that, but I see Distance and Corp. maintenance is the real problem, not civics. For corporations, how does the -25% from Free Market stack with -75%? probably not -100%. You still need to pay the ~19% of total corp cost.

On a water map, Financial would get a boost from all the water tiles.

I suppose Zulu is also something to consider (-20% maint) but then you need a barracks in every city.

Imperialistic (from the burger king) would be a nice trait for all the settlers. Too bad protective is so sad. Maybe he would work well on a lower difficulty.

 

[VirusMonster]

The way they stack is 0.75 * 0.5 = 0.375 total maintenance. The 10k total expense in final save of KillerCane's 1M game was with this factor.

Charlemagne would have 0.75 * 0.25 = 0.1875, a significant reduction.

Zulu is interesting, because the Impi starts with Mobility making it pretty much like a Persian Immortal. I guess it could harass as successfully, but it does not have the 50% bonus against archers, so capturing cities will be problematic. On the other hand, it can be promoted CityRaider I&II to balance it out. Still not as good as an Immortal.

I am not exactly sure how the Ikhanda and Courthouse effects are put together. A single (0.5+0.2)=0.7 reduction multiplier (70% reduction) or 0.5*0.8=0.4 (60%reduction). The 10% difference is rather significant, since it could traslate roughly to 1k per turn in the final turn.

edit: I checked on WorldBuilder, they are added for a total of 70% reduction. That is almost as good as a Rathaus. I am starting to think Zulu might be the new ultimate 1M hero Barracks get build faster too due to Aggressive trait, and you want to build the Granaries early too for growth, so perfect combo.