Gunman attack in Belgian city square

[HannibalBarka]

What about what I said in post #77?

I don't know of any scientific study about the impact of strict gun contraol laws on crime and muder rates: the study won't be easy to do because as somepeople said here, crime rates are a complex matter influenced by social, cultural and legal factors. So to extract the sole impact of gun control laws on murder and crime rates does really seem to be a tough thing to do (I use statistcs daily by the way in my job, so I "know" a little bit about what I am talking about in this area).

My point was actually that those gun control laws are often "culture dependant" and not "benefit dependant". People in most of Europe will be against a freeer access to guns because they would think it will facilitate the bad guys access to weapons and it will cause more "accident". In the US, the right to possesing weapon is so deeply entranched (is that a correct english word?) in the popular psyche because of historical reasons I suppose, that it's not even a matter of how beneficial it is. Even if you succeed in proving that it is overall harmfull to the society as a whole (and good luck about that), people would still support it, because they think that their right to bear arms and be able to defend themselves is more important than the "far and non imminant" danger that it causes to other people.
That reasoning is not that weird however and not specific to the "US/guns" case. I gave the example of France and wine. People in France know that wine (and alcohol) do cause many death and suffering (car accident, home violence triggered by alcohol especially man vs woman and kids, the slow death due to health problem, etc). they nevertheless think that their right to a good Bordeaux is much more important than the problems caused by it to other people, and that is a cultural thing (because they do not get to the same conclusion when it comes to marijuana or Qat for example).

 

[Traitorfish]

I don't think many Germans were complaining when they got their hands on Jewish loot.

Have you checked?

That the military is not a stop gap against tyranny and on the contrary enable it.

I didn't realise that any had claimed as much.

 

[mrt144]

Have you checked?


I didn't realise that any had claimed as much.

How wrong does something have to be before a population can no longer tolerate it. Apparently Germans had very strong stomachs.

No one with any power to stop Hitler stopped Hitler.

 

[kochman]

There were numerous attempts... all failed... quite unfortunately.

 

[holy king]

Have you already forgotten the lessons of WW2?

bitte, was?

 

[Algeroth]

The fifth victim has died:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/1...im-dies-as-parliament-wrestles-with-gun-laws/

Ironically, the "real-life thread" of this issue has also degenerated into a controversy of gun legislation and enforcement.

Thanks.

From the article:

Orphaned at a young age and largely left to his own devices, he had been summoned by vice police for interrogation at around the time of the massacre but never showed up, the public prosecutor said.

The Belgian press said the summons was linked to a sexual harassment complaint and lawyers along with people he knew said Amrani had been nervous and stressed over the prospect of a new conviction.

 

[strijder20]

Like the country I'm in? I dunno do you watch the news?

Did it ever occur to you that Mexico might have strict gun laws because there is a high crime rate, and not the other way round?

 

[Mad Man]

When I read the title I thought Germany was blitzkrieging again, oh well I suppose we could always occupy them again just for S&Gs.

 

[mrt144]

Well lets look at some other sources shall we?

So lets compare homicide rates in real steal loving Switzerland versus the green plastic ball loving United Kingdom?

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/images/5/5b/Crimes_recorded_by_the_police_-_Homicide%2C_2002-2008.PNG

2006-2008

So Britain's three regions are all higher than Switzerland's with the average being around 1.67 per 100,000

Switzerland is 0.73 per 100,000

Hmmm

And yet Sweden has an overall higher violent crime rate than the UK. And has higher ownership, and slightly less strict laws than the UK.

In fact Sweden shows that legal firearms and pervasive firearm ownership doesn't prevent illegal acts with firearms. Or illegal acts with illegal firearms. Isn't your entire thesis that a more well armed populace prevents crime because the criminals don't know who is packing? Maybe Sweden just has more bold criminals? Also, how do you explain the discrepancy between Mexico and the UK? effective government intervention and societal predisposition towards violence as a viable means of goal achievement?

And I was wrong when I said there was a correlation between gun control laws and violent crime - The scatters just don't amount to much of anything other than noise. But this same noise also doesn't verify that lack of gun control laws have an impact on crime reduction.

 

[mrt144]

There were numerous attempts... all failed... quite unfortunately.

And yet you think that if there had been more Jews carrying firearms that bad things could have been averted? Where do you get this magical thinking? They would have just firebombed the entire place. I understand your philosophy of dying free rather than living a slave but that axiom just doesn't translate on collective action issues.

Think about this for a minute. You're essentially a few words away from supporting domestic terrorism and that the final arbiter of the righteousness of such terrorism is you.

 

[mrt144]

Did it ever occur to you that Mexico might have strict gun laws because there is a high crime rate, and not the other way round?

And that for the most part, they're terrible at enforcing said laws.

 

[Verbose]

And yet Sweden has an overall higher violent crime rate than the UK. And has higher ownership, and slightly less strict laws than the UK.

In fact Sweden shows that legal firearms and pervasive firearm ownership doesn't prevent illegal acts with firearms. Or illegal acts with illegal firearms. Isn't your entire thesis that a more well armed populace prevents crime because the criminals don't know who is packing? Maybe Sweden just has more bold criminals? Also, how do you explain the discrepancy between Mexico and the UK? effective government intervention and societal predisposition towards violence as a viable means of goal achievement?

And I was wrong when I said there was a correlation between gun control laws and violent crime - The scatters just don't amount to much of anything other than noise. But this same noise also doesn't verify that lack of gun control laws have an impact on crime reduction.

Yes, well, Swedish violent crime rate:

It's part of a more general Nordic trend. Simply put, we get drunk, have an argument with a mate, which gets overheated, and ends badly, as in lethally, for one of the parties involved.

That's the A1 Standard Pattern for a Swedish homicide.

 

[mrt144]

Yes, well, Swedish violent crime rate:

It's part of a more general Nordic trend. Simply put, we get drunk, have an argument with a mate, which gets overheated, and ends badly, as in lethally, for one of the parties involved.

That's the A1 Standard Pattern for a Swedish homicide.

Saunas and drinking, the deadly killer.

 

[Rashiminos]

How wrong does something have to be before a population can no longer tolerate it. Apparently Germans had very strong stomachs.

No one with any power to stop Hitler stopped Hitler.

Judging by present circumstances?

Luciferian.

 

[Traitorfish]

How wrong does something have to be before a population can no longer tolerate it. Apparently Germans had very strong stomachs.

You've heard of the Cambodian genocides, I assume?

No one with any power to stop Hitler stopped Hitler.

That's fairly self-evident.

 

[mrt144]

You've heard of the Cambodian genocides, I assume?


That's fairly self-evident.

Cambodia didn't elect a monster

 

[Traitorfish]

Cambodia didn't elect a monster

Neither did Germany. He was appointed.

 

[mrt144]

Neither did Germany. He was appointed.

He basically demanded the chancellor position and got it because the nazis enjoyed a near majority in the reichstag and hindenberg was a giant . Not only that but he the reichstag approved the suspension of german constitution to hitler by a gross majority.

 

[Traitorfish]

He basically demanded the chancellor position and got it because the nazis enjoyed a near majority in the reichstag and hindenberg was a giant .

The gap between "elected" and "not quite elected" is not insignificant.

Not only that but he the reichstag approved the suspension of german constitution to hitler by a gross majority.

That had more to do with the fact that the KPD and SPD had been banned outright and all other parties legally barred from running than anything else. Kind of tilts the field in his favour, y'know?

 

[mrt144]

The gap between "elected" and "not quite elected" is not insignificant.


That had more to do with the fact that the KPD and SPD had been banned outright and all other parties legally barred from running than anything else. Kind of tilts the field in his favour, y'know?

And who let that happen?

Why don't you want to hold 1930s Germans to be accountable?