obsolete
Deity
Turns 20-29
Spoiler :
Hammer-Heavy Econ. (Immortal Test)
- Thread starter obsolete
- Start date
obsolete
Deity
Turns 30-39
Spoiler :
obsolete
Deity
Alright, the final set.
Turns 40-49
Turns 40-49
Spoiler :
Dirk1302
Deity
Until turn 50
Spoiler :
obsolete
Deity
Alright, as soon as Paulis posts his last sets, we can start voting.
The better you like the save, the higher points you should rate it.
Scale to be used is 1 to 5 (no duplicated values). This forces disciplined decision making. Also, the value of 1 is always to be assigned to YOUR OWN save. So, no voting yourself to be the best, haha.
We should maybe ask for comments/critics to be sent with the votes, so that players can respond to them in case something was over-looked, or critiqued too harshley?
The better you like the save, the higher points you should rate it.
Scale to be used is 1 to 5 (no duplicated values). This forces disciplined decision making. Also, the value of 1 is always to be assigned to YOUR OWN save. So, no voting yourself to be the best, haha.
We should maybe ask for comments/critics to be sent with the votes, so that players can respond to them in case something was over-looked, or critiqued too harshley?
PaulisKhan
Physicist
Turn 30-39
Turn 40-49
Overview
-edit- I have to say (even though I probably shouldn't), when you I saw all your final turnsets with your new cities already settled I was tempted to redo my last set to whip out that settler just to not look so noob, but in the end I'm happy with my decisions, stuck with the plan and everything should fall into place in the next set unless an industrious/religious AI has beelined for the Oracle.
Spoiler :
Turn 40-49
Spoiler :
Overview
Spoiler :
-edit- I have to say (even though I probably shouldn't), when you I saw all your final turnsets with your new cities already settled I was tempted to redo my last set to whip out that settler just to not look so noob, but in the end I'm happy with my decisions, stuck with the plan and everything should fall into place in the next set unless an industrious/religious AI has beelined for the Oracle.
First I found it quite interesting none of us settled in place. 
I also notice a difference in Justinian's later settling patterns when he built the GWall and when he didn't.
My votes are as follows. I did find this very tough to decide and would be quite happy to play on with any of the games.
5. points. Snaaty. 3 cities. Religious differences between the AI. SH built.
Edit there is one fault I spotted you played 1 to many turns. 
4. points. Obsolete. Bit dissapointed no SH from our wonder person
but well on the way to the Oracle.
3. points. PaulisKhan. SH built. Well on the way to Oracle. Plus we can have a debate about where the next settler goes.
2. points. Dirk1302. I do like the aggressive settling but no SH and not heading for the Oracle. From the way you've settled I definitely agree with your tech path though.
1. point. [HI]Auron. Big plus points for SH and progress to the Oracle. But for me bigger negatives for the war with Justinian.
That is probably the longest time I've taken to write an article on CF trying to decide who goes where. TBH I'm still not sure but I'll post before I change my mind again.
I also notice a difference in Justinian's later settling patterns when he built the GWall and when he didn't.My votes are as follows. I did find this very tough to decide and would be quite happy to play on with any of the games.
5. points. Snaaty. 3 cities. Religious differences between the AI. SH built.
Edit there is one fault I spotted you played 1 to many turns. 4. points. Obsolete. Bit dissapointed no SH from our wonder person
but well on the way to the Oracle.3. points. PaulisKhan. SH built. Well on the way to Oracle. Plus we can have a debate about where the next settler goes.
2. points. Dirk1302. I do like the aggressive settling but no SH and not heading for the Oracle. From the way you've settled I definitely agree with your tech path though.
1. point. [HI]Auron. Big plus points for SH and progress to the Oracle. But for me bigger negatives for the war with Justinian.
That is probably the longest time I've taken to write an article on CF trying to decide who goes where. TBH I'm still not sure but I'll post before I change my mind again.
Dirk1302
Deity
^Not that i want to argue with your scoring, i may need to explain better why i played this way:
I know there was some discussion about going for SH and oracle to assure an early GP, then bulb theo and build AP. Not a bad plan in itself but i wasn't planning on this from the start. I specifically don't want to get an early GP since it'll make it hard to get a GS. And SH is an imo rather useless wonder in other respects, it's not that hard to whip/chop monuments. Since i have settled all the border cities early i'll have monument culture in all of them in 15-20 turns so well before 1200 bc.
I actually could have gotten SH easily by directing some chops to it, i missed it by 6 turns but i would probably have taken it off 1 turn from completion and cash the gold. I might still get oracle but i won't gun too hard for this one either. The free tech from oracle is nice but tech situations tend to level out near 1 AD.
In the meantime i have got myself 3 extra cities and valuable resources like dye/sugar and 2 extra phants. In best case scenario i might have even denied phants to Just. Just is score leader now but he won't have much land to settle. Meaning he'll be weak later. Also i have a passage to the south now, who knows what lies there, if there's gold/gems i can afford to settle there too.
Time is needed to consolidate so war maybe later. Once consolidated though i can whip a considerable army with the amount of cities i'll have. Sugar and dye help with happiness while whipping.
I know there was some discussion about going for SH and oracle to assure an early GP, then bulb theo and build AP. Not a bad plan in itself but i wasn't planning on this from the start. I specifically don't want to get an early GP since it'll make it hard to get a GS. And SH is an imo rather useless wonder in other respects, it's not that hard to whip/chop monuments. Since i have settled all the border cities early i'll have monument culture in all of them in 15-20 turns so well before 1200 bc.
I actually could have gotten SH easily by directing some chops to it, i missed it by 6 turns but i would probably have taken it off 1 turn from completion and cash the gold. I might still get oracle but i won't gun too hard for this one either. The free tech from oracle is nice but tech situations tend to level out near 1 AD.
In the meantime i have got myself 3 extra cities and valuable resources like dye/sugar and 2 extra phants. In best case scenario i might have even denied phants to Just. Just is score leader now but he won't have much land to settle. Meaning he'll be weak later. Also i have a passage to the south now, who knows what lies there, if there's gold/gems i can afford to settle there too.
Time is needed to consolidate so war maybe later. Once consolidated though i can whip a considerable army with the amount of cities i'll have. Sugar and dye help with happiness while whipping.
@Dirk1302
This is why no-one except me has voted yet. It's not easy, I did say for a few words it took me a very long time to write. Going by Snaaty's guidelines I was looking to bulb theo and settle all my cities very close so that's how I scored it. In a normal game I would have rushed Just with Quecha's (never done that ) and it did cross my mind seeing as how close he is.
I do think your aggressive settling leads to you having a very strong start and can't argue with anything you say. Definitely swap yours with mine.
Perhaps some defined aims would help.
This is why no-one except me has voted yet. It's not easy, I did say for a few words it took me a very long time to write.
Going by Snaaty's guidelines I was looking to bulb theo and settle all my cities very close so that's how I scored it. In a normal game I would have rushed Just with Quecha's (never done that ) and it did cross my mind seeing as how close he is. I do think your aggressive settling leads to you having a very strong start and can't argue with anything you say. Definitely swap yours with mine.
Perhaps some defined aims would help.
Like already mentioned, not easy... ...soooo...
5 Points: Auron
Peace is overrated. After some AW games, I have come to like disturbing the AI early. Getting 2 workers + blocking the gold + Floodplains site is a great asset. Although I dont like the fish city that much, because it misses the corn and therefore isn´t ideal for our specialist city
4 Points: Dirk
See Dirk´s post. Expansion and early cities is the most important thing (3 cities that early are a huge asset). He got all the jungle stuff... ...but the city down there will be small and stinky quite some time. The corn/fish city is just perfect for our specialist city. No SH is a minus, that´s why I only voted Dirk second
3 Points: Sleepless
2 cities + SH. Slightly worse then the above mentioned saves due to the already named facts
2 Points: Obs
2 cities no SH. See Sleepless, substract SH (30 hammers in every city IS something to consider, IF we really plan to spam cities)
1 Point Pkhan
1 cities + SH. See Sleepless, substract 1 city
5 Points: Auron
Peace is overrated. After some AW games, I have come to like disturbing the AI early. Getting 2 workers + blocking the gold + Floodplains site is a great asset. Although I dont like the fish city that much, because it misses the corn and therefore isn´t ideal for our specialist city
4 Points: Dirk
See Dirk´s post. Expansion and early cities is the most important thing (3 cities that early are a huge asset). He got all the jungle stuff... ...but the city down there will be small and stinky quite some time. The corn/fish city is just perfect for our specialist city. No SH is a minus, that´s why I only voted Dirk second
3 Points: Sleepless
2 cities + SH. Slightly worse then the above mentioned saves due to the already named facts
2 Points: Obs
2 cities no SH. See Sleepless, substract SH (30 hammers in every city IS something to consider, IF we really plan to spam cities)
1 Point Pkhan
1 cities + SH. See Sleepless, substract 1 city
obsolete
Deity
Yes, hard to vote right, so that's why I'll post my choices soon 
But..
Had I been playing this whole thing solo, believe me I'd have gone much, much different. But since it's a SG and most people don't seem to understand tiny empires well, I decided to change things in order that it would fit more into people's style.
It also has more power than it looks because I left all the trees so far in-tact, in order to get math over-lay, etc.
But..
Had I been playing this whole thing solo, believe me I'd have gone much, much different. But since it's a SG and most people don't seem to understand tiny empires well, I decided to change things in order that it would fit more into people's style.
It also has more power than it looks because I left all the trees so far in-tact, in order to get math over-lay, etc.
Dirk1302
Deity
Snaaty 5
i like the capital placement here, 3 cities on good sites is a very solid start
Auron 4
Hard to judge, basically Justin is out of the game here. A war like this freezes the ai, it won't be difficult to take over Constantinopel later. But Gilga will jump into part of the land that Justin would have settled making him harder to beat later. We'll miss out on trade opportunities with Justin too. But getting the early gold/floodplains sure counts for a lot. There is not much risk attached to this action btw, more so since we have quecha's.
Obs 3
Sleepless 2
Paulis Khan 1
These games are a bit similar, i like Obs's game a bit better than Sleepless's one. Capital placement worked out, a third settler is being build, 2 workers built. I think this is more important than SH. Paulis Kahn is not much behind imo, in 5 turns he'll settle the second city too and he has capital at size 6. So don't read too much in my judgement of the last 3 games.
On SH, if we'd need a monument in every city asap then SH would be more important. In my own game i only need a monument early in the 2 border cities, i'll probably need some more in the future but certainly not in every city. It really depends on the plan, do you want a GP or a GS next.
i like the capital placement here, 3 cities on good sites is a very solid start
Auron 4
Hard to judge, basically Justin is out of the game here. A war like this freezes the ai, it won't be difficult to take over Constantinopel later. But Gilga will jump into part of the land that Justin would have settled making him harder to beat later. We'll miss out on trade opportunities with Justin too. But getting the early gold/floodplains sure counts for a lot. There is not much risk attached to this action btw, more so since we have quecha's.
Obs 3
Sleepless 2
Paulis Khan 1
These games are a bit similar, i like Obs's game a bit better than Sleepless's one. Capital placement worked out, a third settler is being build, 2 workers built. I think this is more important than SH. Paulis Kahn is not much behind imo, in 5 turns he'll settle the second city too and he has capital at size 6. So don't read too much in my judgement of the last 3 games.
On SH, if we'd need a monument in every city asap then SH would be more important. In my own game i only need a monument early in the 2 border cities, i'll probably need some more in the future but certainly not in every city. It really depends on the plan, do you want a GP or a GS next.
obsolete
Deity
***** Snaaty
**** Auron
*** Dirk
** PaulisKhan
* Sleepless
Snaaty: There are two reasons for this ranking. Three cities with three workers and SH is pretty decent, but one of the most important benefits is that Gilga has founded an opposite religion from Justin. This is such a win/win situation for us.
Auron: Stonehenge completed, with a city up , and fighting a war. Not bad, however things could have the potential to turn real bad. One issue I have is that there are probably some here that are not too experienced with such early warring. This is one reason I decided not to do the Que rush myself. Besides, it will never work on deity anyway.
Dirk: Early cities are ok, but having one so terribly close to Gilga is a big worry here. He loves to DoW even without any excuse, but now he’s certainly got one. Instead of mostly just targeting Justinian, he now has a perfectly valid excuse to go after us here.
P.S. If my fear factor was any higher I’d rate your’s and Auron’s at the very bottom of the list.
PaulisKhan: Least amount of ReXing points, but since you at least have the henge, and are so close to finishing priesthood, with a settler due in 2 turns I’ll at least bump it up to second place.
Sleepless: The Stonehenge is ok , but only 1 settler and 1 worker... there should be room for improvement. Looking at it, I see there is still growth for pop of 2 in the capital. This is a bit of waste since you already are in slavery.
**** Auron
*** Dirk
** PaulisKhan
* Sleepless
Snaaty: There are two reasons for this ranking. Three cities with three workers and SH is pretty decent, but one of the most important benefits is that Gilga has founded an opposite religion from Justin. This is such a win/win situation for us.
Auron: Stonehenge completed, with a city up , and fighting a war. Not bad, however things could have the potential to turn real bad. One issue I have is that there are probably some here that are not too experienced with such early warring. This is one reason I decided not to do the Que rush myself. Besides, it will never work on deity anyway.
Dirk: Early cities are ok, but having one so terribly close to Gilga is a big worry here. He loves to DoW even without any excuse, but now he’s certainly got one. Instead of mostly just targeting Justinian, he now has a perfectly valid excuse to go after us here.
P.S. If my fear factor was any higher I’d rate your’s and Auron’s at the very bottom of the list.
PaulisKhan: Least amount of ReXing points, but since you at least have the henge, and are so close to finishing priesthood, with a settler due in 2 turns I’ll at least bump it up to second place.
Sleepless: The Stonehenge is ok , but only 1 settler and 1 worker... there should be room for improvement. Looking at it, I see there is still growth for pop of 2 in the capital. This is a bit of waste since you already are in slavery.
obsolete
Deity
Alright, a few more votes need to be in (or updated) to be official. Though I have a hunch Snaaty's already won. I'll lay 2-to-1 odds.... any takers?
PaulisKhan
Physicist
I'm pretty sure we could win the game from any of these starting sets so it's just a matter of being critical for criticisms sake =)
I'm a bit miffed that people are underestimating how quickly I'd be finishing up the Oracle and rex out the same number of cities as everyone else, but oh well >.<
5: Snaaty. Strong position as long as we can work the situation to ensure that confuc is founded in the fish+corn city. I'm a little bit concerned about how long it is going to take to get the oracle+writing though (money runs out in 7 turns).
Different religions between Gilga and Justin is good, though with us founding confuc it almost gaurantees a mega trading jewish block on the other continent. Something to be wary of (since it seems pretty certain we'll be using this start)
4: Obselete: settled on mystery square! my precious!
3: Dirk: Big risk of missing out on oracle, I'd have left that jungle city to the AI to improve before capturing it in a later war.
2: Sleepless: Similar to my game but behind in tech and pop (also would have put first settler south to claim the corn rather than share the clams.
1: Auron: Not enough production in the capital is the biggest problem I see here, that's going to hurt us long term, that and I though we weren't supposed to be using our quechas or I'd have rushed JT in the first couple of sets
@Obs, Quecha rush would work on an AI that close on Deity difficulty too. Especially with a forested plains hill in the starting 3x3.
I'm a bit miffed that people are underestimating how quickly I'd be finishing up the Oracle and rex out the same number of cities as everyone else, but oh well >.<
5: Snaaty. Strong position as long as we can work the situation to ensure that confuc is founded in the fish+corn city. I'm a little bit concerned about how long it is going to take to get the oracle+writing though (money runs out in 7 turns).
Different religions between Gilga and Justin is good, though with us founding confuc it almost gaurantees a mega trading jewish block on the other continent. Something to be wary of (since it seems pretty certain we'll be using this start)
4: Obselete: settled on mystery square! my precious!
3: Dirk: Big risk of missing out on oracle, I'd have left that jungle city to the AI to improve before capturing it in a later war.
2: Sleepless: Similar to my game but behind in tech and pop (also would have put first settler south to claim the corn rather than share the clams.
1: Auron: Not enough production in the capital is the biggest problem I see here, that's going to hurt us long term, that and I though we weren't supposed to be using our quechas or I'd have rushed JT in the first couple of sets
@Obs, Quecha rush would work on an AI that close on Deity difficulty too. Especially with a forested plains hill in the starting 3x3.
5 points Snaaty: best expansion while having sh, 3 workers; wheel is missing, capital will get health problems, weak (at the moment) in research compared to fishing starters
4 points dirk: no sh, one less worker than snaaty; tiwanaku might be history if the scout won`t be used for fogbusting in the soutwest
3 points obs: 2 cities and 2 workers, no sh
2 points PK: one city and one worker, but more rexing potential than sleepless and better in research
1 point sleepless: 2 cities and one worker
4 points dirk: no sh, one less worker than snaaty; tiwanaku might be history if the scout won`t be used for fogbusting in the soutwest
3 points obs: 2 cities and 2 workers, no sh
2 points PK: one city and one worker, but more rexing potential than sleepless and better in research
1 point sleepless: 2 cities and one worker
Dirk1302
Deity
^good point on southwest, indeed the scout should go sw, also quecha should be moved to this city.
So how do we continue, we'll take snaaty's game and go SG now? If we keep playing our own turnsets this'll turn into a cookbook game.
So how do we continue, we'll take snaaty's game and go SG now? If we keep playing our own turnsets this'll turn into a cookbook game.
Thanks for voting folks
...
Obs posted a roster some pages ago, if I´m not mistaken, then he himself is up...
...
To start discussion on how to go on here what was my plan for the next turns of this game with the start and strat I had chosen:
Note: City placement reworked compared to markers in save...
View attachment 207917
Finish settler in capital (3 turns with the chop), then worker (1 chop), then another settler (1 chop), then Oracle (should work fine with timing research with writing, about 13-15 turns from now). Prechoping forests to ensure Oracle ASAP with writing (4 forests chopped = 120 + 2 turns of build at 18)
Revolt to slavery and get WB in Specialits city while growing (work coast + corn to get max beakers)
Slowbuild WB in Cottage city while working clam,wheat + coast to get it timed with c-2 borderpop while growing to size 5 = 18 commerce/turn
Settle gold city (reworked my city placement after having revealed now the map some more), work coast until border pops, work gold first to get writing faster
Get CoL from Oracle, hire 3 merchants in Specialist City to bulb MC
Timeline:
5 Turns to Priest, 8-10 Turns for writing (hard to guess with the researchdrop from 100% and the various costal tiles (+3 commerce) beeing worked soon + 2 Turns for Oracle
...
Obs posted a roster some pages ago, if I´m not mistaken, then he himself is up...
...
To start discussion on how to go on here what was my plan for the next turns of this game with the start and strat I had chosen:
Note: City placement reworked compared to markers in save...
View attachment 207917
Finish settler in capital (3 turns with the chop), then worker (1 chop), then another settler (1 chop), then Oracle (should work fine with timing research with writing, about 13-15 turns from now). Prechoping forests to ensure Oracle ASAP with writing (4 forests chopped = 120 + 2 turns of build at 18)
Revolt to slavery and get WB in Specialits city while growing (work coast + corn to get max beakers)
Slowbuild WB in Cottage city while working clam,wheat + coast to get it timed with c-2 borderpop while growing to size 5 = 18 commerce/turn
Settle gold city (reworked my city placement after having revealed now the map some more), work coast until border pops, work gold first to get writing faster
Get CoL from Oracle, hire 3 merchants in Specialist City to bulb MC
Timeline:
5 Turns to Priest, 8-10 Turns for writing (hard to guess with the researchdrop from 100% and the various costal tiles (+3 commerce) beeing worked soon + 2 Turns for Oracle
Dirk1302
Deity
So we'll go caste asap, relying on forges/workshops for production/economy,how about the GP for theo bulb, is this still the plan?
