Hammurabi & Gilgamesh

[kazapp]

I can't be the first one to suddenly realize how much better it would be for both Babylonia and Sumeria if these two beards switched places?

That is, coupling Hammurabi's Agg & Org with the might of the sumerian Vultures to expand quickly.

And allowing Gilgamesh to use his Cre & Pro to turtle, which suits Babylonia's Bowmen perfectly.

The irony is that it's the same civilization (more or less) we're discussing. The two leaders even have identical beards!

Switching places would make so much sense when it comes to focusing on your strengths, not to mention utilizing your Unique Unit!

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Well you know you could just play unrestricted leaders and do this...

 

[oranje willem]

I can't be the first one to suddenly realize how much better it would be for both Babylonia and Sumeria if these two beards switched places?

That is, coupling Hammurabi's Agg & Org with the might of the sumerian Vultures to expand quickly.

And allowing Gilgamesh to use his Cre & Pro to turtle, which suits Babylonia's Bowmen perfectly.

The irony is that it's the same civilization (more or less) we're discussing. The two leaders even have identical beards!

Switching places would make so much sense when it comes to focusing on your strengths, not to mention utilizing your Unique Unit!

I would love to see more synergy between leaders and uniques in general, but as AZ stated, you can always choose to play unrestricted leaders.

 

[Cusanus]

Creative protective bowmen would really hurt.

 

[kazapp]

Well you know you could just play unrestricted leaders and do this...

Yes I know.

I was more reflecting on the irony in assigning these two leaders to their civilizations; how a simple and straight-forward switch would be so much helpful to both civilizations.

It's not as if one of the beards is a doozer any civ would be relieved to be rid of. Babylonia would do much better with Sumeria's leader (and his traits), and vice versa.

There would be no loser in such a switch (except the rest of the world, perhaps!)

 

[kazapp]

Creative protective bowmen would really hurt.

Yes, they would, wouldn't they! Gilgamesh would be much better positioned to showcase the UU of babylonia than the vultures of sumeria.

It would instantly propel both civs higher up into the list of desirables.

 

[Fleme]

The icing on that cake is that both the UBs would also benefit from the switch - Garden being a Colosseum replacement means they get the bonus from creative and the same goes for the Ziggurat and organized.

If there ever was a switch that was meant to be, it's these two - no other leaders would better complement another civ as far as synergies between uu's, ub's and traits go.

Hammurabi of Sumeria would easily be considered top tier and I'd bet he'd be in the top 5 of any leader poll if it had shipped with the game.

 

[kazapp]

Yes, it's almost as if there was a late mistake, much like the Qin and Ghengis pictures were accidentally switched in the vanilla game.

I guess I can keep dreaming there will be another Civ 4 patch, where they "fix" this mistake.

Not assigning Hammurabi to Sumeria, mind you - only assigning his traits to Gilgamesh (and vice versa).

 

[kazapp]

but as AZ stated, you can always choose to play unrestricted leaders.

Of course, since this option makes all AIs too use random leader-civ combos, I have instead edited the XML to allow both Hammurabi and Gilgamesh to lead both Babylonia and Sumeria.

This way, I can play as Gilgamesh of Babylonia without having to see Stalin of the Aztecs or Ghandi of the Holy Empire...

I wish there was a checkbox that enabled unrestricted leaders for the human player ONLY...

 

[joanne]

Short of modifying the game files you can have unrestricted leaders only for yourself by starting a custom game and choosing your opponents' civs to match the leaders or vice versa. Obviously it would spoil the game for the human by revealing the AIs in advance so this probably isn't what you were wishing for

BTW Babylonia and Sumer aren't exactly the same; their territories overlapped but the Sumerians came before Babylonians

 

[MCan]

If there ever was a switch that was meant to be, it's these two - no other leaders would better complement another civ as far as synergies between uu's, ub's and traits go.

Not saying better, but Toku of Native America would work nice. Then he could really turtle up! I know you said uus and ubs and traits but Catherines madrassa is a cultural beast. And a charismatic obelisk is better than a temple, if it isnt already.

I like playing unrestricted! Just met Stalin of the Aztecs. And Boudy of Rome. I ran!

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Sure, that would be awesome. it might be a little unbalanced, though. Aggressive vultures combined with low costs for cities makes for a pretty easy roll.

 

[bobbyboy29]

It could be argued that org is actually weaker with ziggurats. Seeing as zigs are already cheaper, you end up saving less net hammers on them due to Org than regular courthouses, if you think about it, it takes gilga fewer hammers to get zig+library up than it would take hammurabi. Of course the fact that they come earlier may well offset this. Agg vultures would be very nice as well.

 

[yatta77]

I can't be the first one to suddenly realize how much better it would be for both Babylonia and Sumeria if these two beards switched places?

That is, coupling Hammurabi's Agg & Org with the might of the sumerian Vultures to expand quickly.

And allowing Gilgamesh to use his Cre & Pro to turtle, which suits Babylonia's Bowmen perfectly.

The irony is that it's the same civilization (more or less) we're discussing. The two leaders even have identical beards!

Switching places would make so much sense when it comes to focusing on your strengths, not to mention utilizing your Unique Unit!

If you really care about giving this change a try without setting unrestricted leaders, the easier way IMO is to make a little mod editing only the .XML file where the leader traits are specified, giving to each one the traits of the other. Don't edit the original file, just copy it in a newly created sub-directory of the /Mods directory. Then load it as a Mod. There are many easy tutorials and references in the C&C section of the forum, it will take like 5 minutes. I hope all this makes sense in English.
Greetings,
yatta.

 

[Keler]

Somebody should swap their traits and make it an official patch somehow.