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[Vanilla] Hans Lemurson figures out the Combat Formula

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Hans Lemurson, Nov 25, 2016.

  1. deathpickle

    deathpickle Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Messages:
    10
    Doing the lords work hans, thanks. This is gonna help me out so much. Now I can figure out how much better each melee unit is compared to each other for a balance mod i'm considering making. Much appreciated.
     
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,273
    The formula is great but I struggled with some of the finer points
    Based on the intuitive forumula you guys have brilliantly come together I came up with a different look with the view of creating a damage guide discussing all scenarios.
    I thought I would post it here first just to make sure the experts are happy.

    1. To guarantee a unit kill (100 HP) you need a strength difference of 36
    2. To guarantee a garrison kill (200 HP with a seige tower) you need a strength difference of 54
    3. Same unit corps/fleet vs standard unit the corps will do a range between 35-53 HP damage while taking 16-26 damage in return - A 10 difference is roughly double/half damage of the opponent
    4. Same unit army/armada vs standard unit the army will do a range between 47-71 HP damage while taking 12-18 damage in return roughly 1/4 the damage of the opponent
    5. An army has a much higher difference in damage at 24% variation its important to keep in mind when attacking
    6. Ignoring flanking 3 units will on average (random value of 30) do 42 HP of damage to a unit while an army will do 61 HP. I am not convinced a single army is better than 3 units but a few armies would be.

    While a difference of -80gives no damage the setting COMBAT_MINIMUM_DAMAGE=1 always makes this 1

    upload_2017-7-6_15-3-10.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
    meistereckhart and peddroelm like this.
  3. Raptorous

    Raptorous Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    16
    I'm little bit confused how to count the damage of the attacker and defender.
    At first page there is information about the rules of thumb but I can't understand it.
    What is that chart.
    If someone could explain the mechanism for example
    knight level1 100 hp vs crossbowman level 2 100 hp
    attacker str 48 defender 30 + 4 support 2 unit.
    differance is 48-34=14
    I know that I can't kill the crossbowman on 1 hit
    How I should count the damage of attacker and defender
     
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,273
    Knight attacks crossbow and the difference is 14
    This means the Knight is +14 and the crossbow is -14

    If you look at the table in the post above yours you can see that
    +14 gives a range of damage between 42 and 63 hit points (random decision)
    -14 gives a range of damage between 13 and 20 hit points (random decision)
    If both units did average damage the knight would get 17 HP of damage and the crossbow would get 52 HP of damage.

    The formula shows you how its worked out. The table just makes it clearer to look at and use examples with.
     
  5. Raptorous

    Raptorous Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    16
    That is cleared for me.
    Thank you .
     
  6. Hauptman

    Hauptman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2015
    Messages:
    67
    Just want to say... this thread is awesome. You guys rock.

    Sometimes the game does things that just feel wrong, and I want to know why!
    Last night... my Legion failed to one shot a scout. Now I know why.

    Spear of Fion +5
    Oligarchy +4

    Makes for a 49 strength unit. My legions were very busy so knock 2 off for a most likely sliver of damage and it's all explained. 47 vs 18 ( emperor level + wooded hill scout) and I was one single strength point shy of a 1 shot that 30 difference gives.

    This all explains why I always fealt like I did it wrong if I didnt take defender of the faith as my first religion pick. That +10 really is as important as it feels. It is after all the equivalent as a free Corps. Army it up, get a spear and you'll one shot same era units that enter your borders.

    Thanks guys!
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017

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