Happy world music people singing!

[GinandTonic]

this relates to civ how exactly. Perhaps i should either point you on your way to a philosophy board (darwin awards is good) or make a point about the music again. I really like it and am an atheist.

I also like music and civ, only responding to a half dozen angry smilies.

 

[Pbhead]

Christian missionaries oppressed the Swahili people, as they have many others through out history. Christianity has and still is a force of domination and population control. I don't speak German but if I found out the song was a nazi propaganda piece I would have changed it then as well. It's not the music, it's the lyrics.

It doesn't get me in the mood to have fun and play a game, especially building my own civ. when the theme song is praising a group of people I feel have brought much tyranny and suffering to the world. Not to mention an insistent illogical belief in a totally mythological fairy tale.

Ok, there's some trouble!

I LOVE how you are now picking on the Christians! Come ON How many religions do you know that havent tried to spread their faith?

If you knew the location of the fountain of youth wouldn't you tell everyone where to get everlasting life?

All religions has the same sort of thing "believe this and be saved" If you truely believed a religion was true wouldn't you try to save your friends from being screwed?

Missinarorys dont oppress people they try to "save" people.

At the end of the quote you said that they belived in a "fairytale" Well you tell me how the Universe began(something that I want to know) From that last sentence it seems that you know, so please tell me.

O and how many tyrants were Christians? hitler, no, pol-plot hmm no O what about stallen? maybe lennin? no how about in the past.. Gengis Knan naa or maybe Ceaser O what about NERO! hmm All the modern tyrants were STONE COLD ATHISTS! HOW MANY PEOPLE DID STALIN OR HITLER KILL?? You got EVERYTHING MIXED UP! I suggest you go the nearest spa and get your thoughts in order

Oxford English Dictionary defines theory (in 6 inches of def so not putting it all down) as the systematic conception or statement of the principles of something.

The term theory does not denote something proven, unproven or necessarily provable. There is no problem with the term Theory of Evoloution, unless you take the mathmatical definition of the term theory, which since this is not a conversation about maths we shall not. Creationist or evoloutionist the term theory should not be a problem.

Oh and pbhead - well in general I agree with you, but I can never find the instructions to any of my electronics or tools. If where I left the book for the old motherboard surpatheth my understanding...

I am not talking about "theroy" as in "theroy" that is used in every day language(sort of how awfull should mean full of awe), but as the certain stage in the scientific meathod there are three stages to the scintific meathod

1. hypothisis
A new or resently altered idea. It comes from an observation of nature or a experiment. A Few controled experiments have supported it, but it does not have enough evidence to get up to...

2.theroy
A common idea, many papers have been published about it, it has standed up to many tests and HAS NOT FALTERED ONCE if it were to falter, it would need to be changed or altered to fit the excptions, returning it to theroy statis. Also it has BEEN OBSERVED IN NATURE AND IN THE LAB. At this point experiments are still being performed if no more testing can be done then it becames a..

3.law
VERY FEW scintific ideas get up to this point. It is considered fact amoung everyone, and it has stood the test of time, but tests can still be performed on it to test a new idea. A law is not perfect, some may be demoted to lower levels if a falt is found.

I hope this will tell you why evolution the existance of a god(or lack of one) can never reach a theroy, as it cannot be observed in nature or the lab.

I am not quite sure I understood the thing about the tool manules. Are you trying to say that orginization is unachiveable for you or are you comparing the manules to the Bible or other religious text and that you cant understand their point no matter how dumbed down it is?

 

[croxis]

I may as well fuel the thread hijack.
(My quick education history: I'm a general science education major so I'm concerned with the process of science more than the content).

The idea that hypothesis --> theory --> is flat out wrong. It’s a common misconception. A hypothesis deals with a experiment. The experimenter creates a hypothesis (a fancy name for educated guess), and then tests it. Sometimes the term hypothesis is used for a theory that lacks sufficient evidence--this is really a misuse of the term.

A theory is a model that explains something and predictions (or post-dictions) can be made from it. Gravity, atoms, evolution are all theories as they are models that explain and predict.

Laws are short expressions that state something. Usually they are mathematical and have a very wide scope.

Just because no humans were around to record something doesn't mean it can't be a theory. (side note: origin of life and evolution are not the same thing, they are two different ideas). Indirect evidence (fossil records, isotopic analysis, physiology, and genetics) is used in tandem with the theory in an act of predicting and postdicting. These have been quite accurate with the vertebra animals; non vertebra needed some work with the introduction of genetic testing and many specifics of plants still baffle us.


More to topic: In another thread a link was posted containing another version of Baba Yutu by the same arranger. I also posted in that thread a version I made that combined the two.

And I find it sad that some people are upset of the christian nature of the song, seeing it as propaganda and the like. Such a paranoid and limiting world view is so blinding the beauty in this world. Wonderful works of art and compassion have been done through religion and spirituality (as well as works of hate and destruction, I'm not that naive!) It is just a shame, it really is.

 

[Pbhead]

ok so I got the defs wrong sorry I feel stupid now

But according to you evolution should explain and perdict just what does it predict? and explain ?

If I really wanted to I could go into SOOOOO much evidence against evolution that most people (you may) know, but this thread is taking so much of my time away from me.

In any case I am glad of your last paragraph as it is exactly what I wanted to accomplish here, that if I could get at least one peoson to think for a second and question his worldview then I could die right now a happy man...

I mean After I play a few more turns...

 

[thedopefiend]

hi Merzbow,

Why do you bother with happy world music anyway?

make sth. that forces ears to bleed, just as you've been doing all these years

 

[Dual]

ok so I got the defs wrong sorry I feel stupid now

But according to you evolution should explain and perdict just what does it predict? and explain ?


I mean After I play a few more turns...

An example of what it explains is the question of where the morphology in modern organisims come from.

For instance, the human inner ear is made up of three tiny bones. And these bones seem to have derived from the multiple bones which make up the lower jaw in reptiles. (Human jaws only consist of one bone.)

A prediction that could be made is that you should be able to look at the embryos of both humans and reptiles, and see that the same cells turn into the inner ear in humans and the jaw bones in reptiles. (Which they do.)

Also, there should be no "mammal-like" inner ear found in any creature not related to the same common ancestor as mammals. Like other reptiles, amphibians, or fish. (And there are none with that type of inner ear.)

 

[AstroCat]

Actually, Hitler was a Christian 100%. In fact during WW2 every German soldier’s belt buckle reads:

"Gott Mit Uns" or "God Goes With Us"

I don’t just have issues with christianity, it's just the topic at hand. All evangelical religions are oppressive by nature.

I don't know the absolute truth of the origins of the universe but there are some ideas and insight in to this that are a lot more feasible and plausible than others. And I am for sure not so arrogant or insecure that I must have an answer no matter what common sense or logic tells me, even if uncertainty can be unsettling. I will take reality over ignorance or deception any time.

On some basic levels there is no difference between christianity and say, ancient Greek gods, or even some obscure tribal gods lost in to history. Organized religion has had the same purpose through out history. Maybe 1000 or even 10000 years from now, some other religion will be dominant, who knows... maybe we won’t need religion as we know it anymore, but either way they are all made up, by people for people.

As for works of great art based on religious inspiration, of course I can appreciate and enjoy the artistry in such creations. The intro track is a good arrangement, and very "catchy" for sure, I just don't like that this one world view is supposed to be representative of all that Civ is about. I would have preferred a neutral composition and then had religious music be tied to each individual religion within the game itself, within context.

Enjoy Civ… killer game!

 

[croxis]

Astro, I can appriciate your point, yet as we all know SOMEONE will find a fault with something. Allready some have complained it was done in swahilli (pardon my spelling) as opposed to latin or an asian language. A tribal chant could have been used, but many tribal chants are religious in nature and often name specific gods, and some will then complain about the tribe selecton, the chant selection, the finger nail polish selection, etc. Yes the Lord's prayer is a Christian prayer, and Christianity does have dark past, but so does every other major religion I can think of. At the very least the Lord's prayer *can* be interprited as to speaking about dieties in general. Ok so I'm stretching with my argument but I hope you can see the point I'm trying to make

 

[croxis]

As for evolution, and I don't want to drag this thread into the details - just more of a general concept. Dual got some specific predictions (and in some cases postdictions), but here is a more general one that the theory of evolution can make.

Before genetic testing was possible, the familey tree of species (also remember that the construct of species is also a human invention) was constructed based on physiology, bone structures and the like. When genetic testing became avalable, scientist made the prediction that the ammount of common genes between species would depend on how closely they were related in terms of evolutionary ancestry. For the vertrbre the genetic tests showed the same results as what was done with physiology. Now the non-vertebre animals genetic relations were different with what was predicted,as we understood this class less than the others. As more research was done the results of the tree shown by genetics make more sence.

Technology then improved and protine, even bits of dna have been extracted from fossils. These have confermed the location of these dead critters in the familey tree that was previously done by bone structures.

 

[Xavier Von Erck]

STONE COLD ATHISTS! HOW MANY PEOPLE DID STALIN OR HITLER KILL

Referencing Hitler, a man who felt he was a god to be worshipped... as an ATHEIST is idiotic. Almost as bad as Astroboy being the typical frothing Atheist that Xtians love to have around. Two atheists, myself and the guy on page two have both said "Yeah, so it's the lord's prayer? So what? It's catchy mumbo-jumbo that I can't understand anyways."

Instead people focus on someone like ol' Astroboy, who is little more than the frothingly mad goof-Atheist so many of we non-bitter Atheists abhor for dragging the opinion of Atheism down to his gutterally low level.

This thread is sad, because the lowest common denominator are once again raising their obtuse and ignorant voices to shout for attention.

 

[Elleshar]

As for all the moaning about the content of the opening music, get over it people. The extent to which you are oppressed, influenced, corrupted or harrassed by this supposedly "oppressive" music is entirely within your own control.

Its a great track, and any question of its connection with the worship of a deity is, as far as I am concerned, totally irrelevant.

Oops. Just realised the topic has moved on. Sorry, old chaps.

 

[AstroCat]

Xavier Von Erck, why are flinging insults at me personally?

I think my points are well laid out and not combative. I hardly say I am being a "frothingly (sic) mad goof-Atheist ". I don't really think I'm all that bitter either. It's seems you are the one getting excited. If anything you are coming off as arrogant and shallow. Please explain to me what is so out of control about my points?

Hitler did not think he was a god at all. I do read a lot of history, and in particular study WW2 history.

I really don’t understand why you would have read what I wrote and think it was bitter, or crazy? Did you really read my last post?

-AstroCat

 

[Jinto1980]

I beleive in God and Evolution go crunch those numbers.

 

[AstroCat]

People believe all kinds of things... probably about anything you can imagine. Case and point.

 

[Pbhead]

to astro cat I did reasearch I dont want to get into details because I just lost what I was writing before, but If for a second we assume Christianity is true I am willing to bet the hitler isnt in paradise sipin' a martini!

to jinto you are a hipocrite. do some reseach yourself. you cannot be both. (unless that God you are refuring to is not the Christian god)


I do not have time to get into the flaws and supports of evolution, I would really like to, but I simply do not have the time. I will not read this thread again because I will be tempted to continue this conversation.

I have retorts and counter information to every one of your statements about evolution that have been posted and those that haven't yet. Remember that.

I am very sorry but I have thing I need to do that are not getting done.


if something is really confusing you please use the private messaging system

 

[Elleshar]

"People believe all kinds of things... probably about anything you can imagine. "

Some dogmatically, others not.

 

[Jinto1980]

yall a leader like Hitler or even Bush can say they are Christian but really the only god they worship is Power and Money.

 

[AstroCat]

"People believe all kinds of things... probably about anything you can imagine. "

Some dogmatically, others not.

I would agree with that.

 

[croxis]

Christian beliefs can co-exist with evolution, with the world view that the Bible should be taken figurativly - in short religion explains the whys and science explains the hows.

I see nothing conflicting. Religious fundamentalists = Christians no more than the kkk does.

 

[Tiger_Nation]

Godwins law has been triggered people.