Has AI gotten any better?

[Shaithis]

Wow, this HP mod sounds phenomenal! Makes all the sense in the world too!

How does it work out with the metagame though, considering that any war would take 3 times as long, hence comes at a much higher opportunity cost?

the best advice for OP: try it yourself before deciding. Don't let the posters in this thread decide for you. There is a vocal group of people on here who will try to tip every thread like this towards the "civ 5 sucks" side of things. Please take it with a grain of salt.

Personally I've been playing fanatically since civ2 and 5 is my favorite. The AI is not perfect but it never is. It's good enough to make the game fun.

Thanks for the input. I have tried Civ V, and I stopped playing partly due to inexplicable slowdowns on my Asus G73JH, but mostly due to the cheating bipolar suicidal AI.

 

[Shaithis]

Another bump; where may I obtain the aforementioned mods, by the way? Did a quick review of the mod section but did not see them.

 

[Glassmage]

The backstab a lot now so that's good. ^_^

 

[nokmirt]

I disagree. Forcing the AI to maintain formations would break it even more, as that would overrule any attempt of using terrain in its favor, in order to maintain said formation... think about it, you defeat the AI mainly because of your superior use of terrain, especially in the defensive, in the early ages.

I am still not sure yet if the AI is completely broken or if some conditions severely handicap it... right now I am testing some "new" conditions in a small variant of vanilla, with a value of 4 tiles minimum between cities (to create more maneuvering room, as I think that scale is a huge problem in this game), and also doubling hitpoints of units and cities (to 20 and 50 respectively); the idea of the lattest is to give units more survivability, as I observed that the AI knows how to retreat damaged units, its only that it has not enough time with the defaul 10 HPs... all in all, I am not sure yet of the results and their significance, but I am having a blast with all the prolongued fighting (due to increased HPs) and wider maneuvers (due to increased inter-city space)... I might try to increase it even more.

Oh, and also, no City States in this test game, as CS are really there for... nothing. Plus Large maps, and Marathon. Yes, I realize that this variant makes civ5 even more of a wargame with some building component, but I came to understand that realization might be the only way I will some day be able to enjoy this game...

When I have some conclusive evidence about these changes, I will post them.

Very interesting! I cannot wait for the results of your experiment. I will try a game with similar settings and let you guys know how it goes. This should make a huge difference as you said in a later post.

 

[binhthuy71]

One thing that would help the AI, though not fix it, would be to enable Great Generals to be attached to a unit. It's a rare game in which I don't see an enemy GG wandering around in the open.

Agree with jbevermore; although the damage done by unpromoted ships is relatively minor you can mass enough of them to take and hold coastal cities fairly easily. For what it's worth, I think that, in the final version with BTS, the CiIV combat AI did a much better job of handling naval warfare.

 

[nokmirt]

Interestingly enough, most of the problems being cited here are at the least minimized by the changes I am experimenting with: double HPs for units and cities, increased between-cities room. The 20 HP units are far harder to break, even with arty or the best ranged units, so they endure more punishment and many are able to retreat (which the AI learned to do in April). The 50 HP cities are way harder to take, even with the necessary siege support, which seems to give them time to regroup... I have seen good-sized invasions, even in multiple spots (that was a surprise for me). I am really starting to think that the scale is the root of all problems in this game...

All this in Emperor, no CS, Large map, using only Thal's WWGD and Diplomacy components of VEM...

Did you double the ranged combat of units as well? Or leave it unchanged?

 

[Aristos]

Did you double the ranged combat of units as well? Or leave it unchanged?

Only HPs. Ranged are way to powerful anyways, so this balances things a little regarding ranged killers.

 

[nokmirt]

Only HPs. Ranged are way to powerful anyways, so this balances things a little regarding ranged killers.

Ok, so I will bring combat ranges back to normal. For my test game. I am going to play on TSL Giant Earth Map with 20 civs and see how it goes. I am adding the following mods, info addict, AgS resource info panel, naval counterattack, and two submarine mods to try out. I tried the CCMT2 mod earlier, but it was not working so well with the TSL mod. So I am going to try standard game rules. I have spread city placement to 4 tiles, and upped max city hit points to 50 (all units double combat rating). I am going to play from the Ancient Era to the Industrial Era. I am a World War II guy, so I want to stop before the Modern Era. Full Domination! I am going to play as China and surround myself with all the typical East Asian civs. Japan, Korea, Mongolia, Russia, Siam, Polynesia, and India, so it should be interesting. I will keep track of important developments and especially how the AI plays and fights etc. And update on my games progress to this thread every so often.

I have not played since the patch before last, so King level it is. They always seem to mess around with social policies.

 

[Aristos]

Ok, so I will bring combat ranges back to normal. For my test game. I am going to play on TSL Giant Earth Map with 20 civs and see how it goes. I am adding the following mods, info addict, AgS resource info panel, naval counterattack, and two submarine mods to try out. I tried the CCMT2 mod earlier, but it was not working so well with the TSL mod. So I am going to try standard game rules. I have spread city placement to 4 tiles, and upped max city hit points to 50 (all units double combat rating). I am going to play from the Ancient Era to the Industrial Era. I am a World War II guy, so I want to stop before the Modern Era. Full Domination! I am going to play as China and surround myself with all the typical East Asian civs. Japan, Korea, Mongolia, Russia, Siam, Polynesia, and India, so it should be interesting. I will keep track of important developments and especially how the AI plays and fights etc. And update on my games progress to this thread every so often.

I have not played since the patch before last, so King level it is. They always seem to mess around with social policies.

I don't know if you missunderstood me, or if you decided to go that way, but I never changed combat strength of units, only HP's. My intention was to make the units survive longer, and combine that with more maneuverability (4 tiles between cities). If you double the strength of the units you basically void the double HP effect...

 

[nokmirt]

I don't know if you missunderstood me, or if you decided to go that way, but I never changed combat strength of units, only HP's. My intention was to make the units survive longer, and combine that with more maneuverability (4 tiles between cities). If you double the strength of the units you basically void the double HP effect...

How do you change just the hit points? I did not see it in the GlobalDefines.xml. LOL the problem is I know crap about modding CiV! I was used to modding CiIV.

I found it under MAX_HIT_POINTS. Now I can try the game out.

 

[smallfish]

Frustrating multiplayer game with frustrating pillages.

And who ever said the AI didn't settle on new continents in multiplay??!

 

[nokmirt]

I have to say I like the combat better with the hit points at 20. The AI also tried to outflank my archers, of course it did not work, but I am rather impressed. It moved a warrior away from blindly attacking a city to do this, it went north to reinforce barbarians who were trying to protect their camp. I remember, the last time I played the AI would send a brute down into your city radius to get shot at continually by arrows. Sometimes it still does this. I did kill one this way, but when I got into the Medieval Era, and cities start throwing rocks at them, it did not try that tactic since.

I also am ahead of the game on King level. I have a feeling its starting to get too easy. The game did not seem at all frustrating. I used the WWGD mod, which helps the AI diplomacy be a bit more forgiving. I really have had a easy time with other civs to this point. Hopefully that changes later. I do not want the AI to be too forgiving. I want it to bring it!!!

 

[Aristos]

told you so... my first results are, let's say, encouraging. I am not sold yet on my own test, but I have to admit that the changes made the game more interesting. The Double HP seems to be a must. The wider room between cities seemed to give maneuverability to the AI, not that they suddenly became Heinz Guderian mind you, but I also saw more outflanking attempts and such, that is impossible to see if there are only 3 tiles between cities.

The only thing that worries me (I would give 5 tiles between cities to the game) is that CS becomes a no-option with this setting, because there will not be enough room for them and the major players...

 

[glider1]

Yeah it makes sense to increase the hit points during the time that the AI is struggling with ranged. Do you realise that the VEM mod has set the hit-points at 20 for quite a while already? (as well as a number of other changes to make the AI more competitive tactically). You might want to look into it to get more ideas for yourself.
Cheers

 

[binhthuy71]

The only thing that worries me (I would give 5 tiles between cities to the game) is that CS becomes a no-option with this setting, because there will not be enough room for them and the major players...

You could kind of solve that problem by just going up one map size from your desired game (for a Standard game go to a Large map) and deleting the extra AI's in Advanced Setup.

 

[aziantuntija]

I use the 30 HP mod and have found much the same benefit with my military choices being much more strategic and tactical with a lot more options available to both me and the AI.

Sounds very interesting. Whats the name of that mod and can I find it from the games mod browser?

EDIT: And if there isnt any mod (at least yet) then can someone please guide me how to change those values? Thank you

 

[aziantuntija]

Yeah it makes sense to increase the hit points during the time that the AI is struggling with ranged. Do you realise that the VEM mod has set the hit-points at 20 for quite a while already? (as well as a number of other changes to make the AI more competitive tactically). You might want to look into it to get more ideas for yourself.
Cheers

Ok I managed to find this VEM once I found out that it stands for Vanilla Enchanged Mod. But what I really like to know is that what else does this VEM exactly change away from the increase of the unit hit points? I think I would (at least for now) just like to know how I can manually change just the unit hit points without being forced to use a mod wich I dont really know anything about.

 

[nokmirt]

told you so... my first results are, let's say, encouraging. I am not sold yet on my own test, but I have to admit that the changes made the game more interesting. The Double HP seems to be a must. The wider room between cities seemed to give maneuverability to the AI, not that they suddenly became Heinz Guderian mind you, but I also saw more outflanking attempts and such, that is impossible to see if there are only 3 tiles between cities.

The only thing that worries me (I would give 5 tiles between cities to the game) is that CS becomes a no-option with this setting, because there will not be enough room for them and the major players...

As far as CS, what I did was space them out at medium level which is 7 tiles and instead of 28, I run 14 of them. On a Giant map its been working out so far. However, on a normal game map I see your point, 4 tile spacing would be about the max.

Anyway, the game has been fun. As China I have tons of room to expand. The only thing that worries me is the total unaggressiveness of major civ AIs. Hopefully that changes as the game progresses. If they let me get too strong, they are done for. I may have to move up to Immoratal level next game. Other than that its been a blast. So far I am only in the Medieval Era so there is plenty of time for the game to develop. If it gets interesting in the military scheme of things later on, I'll add some screen shots.

 

[aziantuntija]

How do you change just the hit points? I did not see it in the GlobalDefines.xml. LOL the problem is I know crap about modding CiV! I was used to modding CiIV.

I found it under MAX_HIT_POINTS. Now I can try the game out.

nokmirt, care to tell me exactly where and how do you change the unit hit points?

 

[nokmirt]

nokmirt, care to tell me exactly where and how do you change the unit hit points?

Yes sure, go into C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\sid meier's civilization v\assets\Gameplay\XML\GlobalDefines.xml

Open the xml document in notepad. Find MAX_HIT_POINTS and change the value from 10 to 20. Do the same with MAX_CITY_HIT_POINTS and change the value from 20 to 50. Try the game and let us know what you think.