Has Microsoft stumbled?

[NBAfan]

And conversely there is nothing Windows 8 does that makes most people willing to upgrade from Windows 7 to it, which is probably the main reason why it has "low" sales numbers. I am sure some people aren't buying it because of Metro, but I doubt most people who buy it even really know what Metro does and are either probably too afraid or too lazy to fix it if they don't like it. Or don't know they can.

That's the main thing, 7 is so good that paying for 8 really isn't worth it. Nott that 8 is bad, 7 is just so good.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

My main problem is the user interface.


This is a useful video about why Windows 8 is terrible
Moderator Action: Link removed. Please do not link videos that use unacceptable language.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Archbob]

That's not how it works. Again, most people don't buy upgrade packages for new OSes. Adoption of most OSes comes in the form of new computer purchases. Market share of an OS has nearly nothing to do with the quality of the OS itself.

Moreover the so-called "poor" numbers of Windows 8 has nothing to do with the overall quality of the operating system, just its perception among the highly misinformed masses. There is nothing Windows 7 does which Windows 8 doesn't do better.

Aesthetics are a subjective metric. I find Windows 8 to be Microsoft's most aesthetically pleasing system yet.

You can't blame all of Windows 8's bad adoption on the market. Windows 8's adoption rate is 1/4 of Windows for a similar time period. PC sales have not slowed by that much. On every OS, there were tons of people who didn't like it, but successful ones like 7 had more people liking it than not whereas failures like Vista had more people not liking it than liking it. That will effect sales number. The biggest complaint about 8 is that it looks and feels like a Kid's toy, at least the default boot.

Most people don't run programs by bringing up run and then typing in the program name, they usually click on a desktop icon. You can put that many icons on Win 8's default boot as you can on earlier versions of Windows because it looks like crap if you do. Microsoft made a good OS, but unfortunately outfitted it with a really bad UI.

For Win 8's adoption rate to be so bad, people are either directly asking for Windows 7 on new computers or downgrading from 8 to 7 after they buy the Machine. PC/Laptop sales haven't shrunk that much that it would justify those numbers.

MS is boasting about how it should 60 or 100 million licenses or whatever, that it outsold Windows 7 during launch-time. If that's the case, people are just downgrading 8 back to 7. None of your excuses really explain or justify such poor adoption rates, especially when MS was selling upgrades for like $30. Eventually your going to have to face reality and realize that people don't want to use it.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

You can't blame all of Windows 8's bad adoption on the market. Windows 8's adoption rate is 1/4 of Windows for a similar time period. PC sales have not slowed by that much. On every OS, there were tons of people who didn't like it, but successful ones like 7 had more people liking it than not whereas failures like Vista had more people not liking it than liking it. That will effect sales number. The biggest complaint about 8 is that it looks and feels like a Kid's toy, at least the default boot.

Most people don't run program by bringing up run and then typing in the program name, they usually click on a desktop icon. You can put that many icons on Win 8's default boot as you can on earlier versions of Windows because it looks like crap if you do. Microsoft made a good OS, but unfortunately outfitted it with a really bad UI.

For Win 8's adoption rate to be so bad, people are either directly asking for Windows 7 on new computers or downgrading from 8 to 7 after they buy the Machine. PC/Laptop sales haven't shrunk that much that it would justify those numbers.

I agree, the bad UI ruins Windows 8. Metro UI sucks and so does the start screen. Steve Ballmer supports this and he is an idiot for doing so. People do not want a SmartPhone OS on there desktops and laptops.


http://www.zdnet.com/heres-how-jako...findings-should-inform-developers-7000007739/

 

[Thedrin]

And conversely there is nothing Windows 8 does that makes most people willing to upgrade from Windows 7 to it, which is probably the main reason why it has "low" sales numbers. I am sure some people aren't buying it because of Metro, but I doubt most people who buy it even really know what Metro does and are either probably too afraid or too lazy to fix it if they don't like it. Or don't know they can.

Do people a significant share of the computer using population ever upgrade OSs?

I'm not tech savvy. When I bought a laptop for the first time, in 2009, it had Windows XP on it, because that's the OS that came with the laptop. I accepted it as part of the package that was being sold to me. I upgraded to a different OS - I think it was Windows 7 but I don't know - in 2011. Why? Because I bought a new laptop and that's the operating system that came with it. As with my 2009 purchase, I accepted the default programming that the seller offered.

Since I but laptops every couple of years, I will upgrade to Windows 8 at some point, and it will be when I buy a computer that comes with Windows 8 as the default operating system.

For what it's worth, my current OS is pretty dull. Same old same old. I don't know what it's like to use Windows 8 (I don't have a smart phone) but it looks very pretty.

Also the point about Windows 7's market share increasing following the launch of Windows 8 because companies are only trying to get off XP is a great one and shouldn't be ignored.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

Do people a significant share of the computer using population ever upgrade OSs?

I'm not tech savvy. When I bought a laptop for the first time, in 2009, it had Windows XP on it, because that's the OS that came with the laptop. I accepted it as part of the package that was being sold to me. I upgraded to a different OS - I think it was Windows 7 but I don't know - in 2011. Why? Because I bought a new laptop and that's the operating system that came with it. As with my 2009 purchase, I accepted the default programming that the seller offered.

Since I but laptops every couple of years, I will upgrade to Windows 8 at some point, and it will be when I buy a computer that comes with Windows 8 as the default operating system.

For what it's worth, my current OS is pretty dull. Same old same old. I don't know what it's like to use Windows 8 (I don't have a smart phone) but it looks very pretty.

Also the point about Windows 7's market share increasing following the launch of Windows 8 because companies are only trying to get off XP is a great one and shouldn't be ignored.

Trust me when I say this Windows 8 is terrible and it tries to change the concept of what Windows is. Try to get a Windows 7 Laptop if you can. You are doing yourself a favor.

 

[azzaman333]

Trust me when I say this Windows 8 is terrible and it tries to change the concept of what Windows is. Try to get a Windows 7 Laptop if you can. You are doing yourself a favor.

You still haven't said a single reason why it's bad except for "I don't like it".

 

[Maniacal]

i hate metro

Yes, we know. I don't care for Metro either but you're not helping your case at all. You're pretty much just spamming that now.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

You still haven't said a single reason why it's bad except for "I don't like it".

The UI for Windows 8 is TERRIBLE. Metro is awful on desktops and laptops and the start screen sucks. A OS designed for touchscreens sucks on PCs because touchscreens on PCs suck. They have never taken off and likely never will. Windows 8 is more designed for Tablets and SmartPhones. I personally do not care about tablets and SmartPhones.


Windows 8 is going to fail much worse then Vista. It was bad idea to make one OS for every device. Windows 8 is really a failed experiment. The best thing for Microsoft is to make Windows 9 for Desktops and Laptops, making Metro an option download for Windows 9 for the people who did like it. Then make a separate version of Windows for Tablets and Windows phones.

If they don't realize how bad of a mistake Metro is on desktops and laptops, they Microsoft will lose a lot of market share to Apple and Linux.

 

[azzaman333]

The UI for Windows 8 is TERRIBLE.

Translation: "I don't like it"

Metro is awful on desktops and laptops and the start screen sucks.

Translation: "I don't like it"

A OS designed for touchscreens sucks on PCs because touchscreens on PCs suck.

Translation: "I don't like it"

They have never taken off and likely never will. Windows 8 is more designed for Tablets and SmartPhones. I personally do not care about tablets and SmartPhones.

Translation: "I don't like it"

Windows 8 is going to fail much worse then Vista. It was bad idea to make one OS for every device. Windows 8 is really a failed experiment. The best thing for Microsoft is to make Windows 9 for Desktops and Laptops, making Metro an option download for Windows 9 for the people who did like it. Then make a separate version of Windows for Tablets and Windows phones.

If they don't realize how bad of a mistake Metro is on desktops and laptops, they Microsoft will lose a lot of market share to Apple and Linux.

Translation: "I hope Windows 8 will fail because I don't like it"

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Just because you do not like the thread does not mean you have to troll in it. Please cease the trolling and go elsewhere if you do not like the subject. Last warning.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

My reasons for disliking the Metro UI and Start Screen is because its clumsy and unwieldy. I know that Windows 8 has a desktop but the start menu should not have been taken out, that was a big mistake by Microsoft and is likely costing them sales. Windows 8 is doing WORSE then Vista was at this point after its launch. That alone should say something about how people feel about Windows 8. Windows 7 gained more market share in February, this is AFTER the launch of Windows 8.

 

[Thedrin]

My reasons for disliking the Metro UI and Start Screen is because its clumsy and unwieldy. I know that Windows 8 has a desktop but the start menu should not have been taken out, that was a big mistake by Microsoft and is likely costing them sales.

I didn't know the start menu was good. That makes it even more attractive. While I did use that menu regularly in Windows 95, I only use it these days if I have no other choice.

Windows 8 is doing WORSE then Vista was at this point after its launch. That alone should say something about how people feel about Windows 8. Windows 7 gained more market share in February, this is AFTER the launch of Windows 8.

And Zelig had the following to say about why Windows 7 gained market share:

Zelig:
Mostly at the expense of terribly lazy companies that are doing the bare minimum to get off of XP before MS kills it. XP dies in a year, and average time for a corporation to roll out an OS is something like 18 months.

 

[azzaman333]

But you're not giving any objective reasons why that's happening. Your reasons why you don't like it are purely subjective. Repeating them doesn't make them more objective.

Furthermore, you're ignoring the myriad of factors that affect OS market share in an attempt to demonize Windows 8. Ok, 7 gained more market share in Feb. How much of that was from XP? How much of that was from Mac? How much of that was from PCs that had been loaded with 7 before 8's release? And so on.

 

[sophie]

Translation: "I don't like it" Translation: "I don't like it" Translation: "I don't like it"
Translation: "I don't like it"



Translation: "I hope Windows 8 will fail because I don't like it"

You forgot the part where he's never even used Windows 8. This is wholly a kneejerk reaction not based on any kind of experience withe the platform. Kind of like how some PC guys decry Apple OSes out of some vague rivalry with Steve Jobs, without ever actually trying Apple's wonderful system.

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

But you're not giving any objective reasons why that's happening. Your reasons why you don't like it are purely subjective. Repeating them doesn't make them more objective.

Furthermore, you're ignoring the myriad of factors that affect OS market share in an attempt to demonize Windows 8. Ok, 7 gained more market share in Feb. How much of that was from XP? How much of that was from Mac? How much of that was from PCs that had been loaded with 7 before 8's release? And so on.

A lot of people are going out of there way to buy Windows 7 PCs to avoid Windows 8. They are people special ordering them or buy refurbished PCs. Vista never surpassed XP and the same thing is about to happen with Windows 7 and Windows 8. Considering Windows 8 is off to a slower start then Vista was should in itself say something. People want to keep there start menu and desktop. They also do not want a mobile phone OS on there PC. These should prove I am not alone in my stance on Windows 8. It is going to fail. While I know XP got off to a slow start it was for different reasons, mostly security problems that got patched. Vista sold badly due to bugs. Windows 8 will fail for a different reason. They made the same mistake when they devloped Microsoft Bob, the Sidebar and Active Desktop. People do not like changes to the basic concept of the Windows interface.

 

[sophie]

A lot of people are going out of there way to buy Windows 7 PCs to avoid Windows 8. They are people special ordering them or buy refurbished PCs. Vista never surpassed XP and the same thing is about to happen with Windows 7 and Windows 8. Considering Windows 8 is off to a slower start then Vista was should in itself say something. People want to keep there start menu and desktop. They also do not want a mobile phone OS on there PC. These should prove I am not alone in my stance on Windows 8. It is going to fail. While I know XP got off to a slow start it was for different reasons, mostly security problems that got patched. Vista sold badly due to bugs. Windows 8 will fail for a different reason. They made the same mistake when they devloped Microsoft Bob, the Sidebar and Active Desktop. People do not like changes to the basic concept of the Windows interface.

That didn't stop XP which made changes to the windows interface.

And again flagging sales, even if they were contingent on actual consumer purchases (which, or the most part, they are not) would only indicate popular dissatisfaction with the product, not that the product is objectively worse than the previous iteration. People disliked Vista but that didn't mean Vista didn't end up becoming a sturdy workhorse of an OS. You still haven't provided anything substantive and objective which demonstrates Windows 8 is worse than Windows 7. You've only shown that you think it's uglier, that you don't like the completely optional metro, and that some people don't like the system.

 

[Zelig]

My main problem is the user interface.

Good thing the Metro UI is optional.

I agree, the bad UI ruins Windows 8. Metro UI sucks and so does the start screen. Steve Ballmer supports this and he is an idiot for doing so. People do not want a SmartPhone OS on there desktops and laptops.

Have you noticed yet that using Metro apps is optional?

Trust me when I say this Windows 8 is terrible and it tries to change the concept of what Windows is. Try to get a Windows 7 Laptop if you can. You are doing yourself a favor.

Why should anyone trust you?

The UI for Windows 8 is TERRIBLE. Metro is awful on desktops and laptops and the start screen sucks. A OS designed for touchscreens sucks on PCs because touchscreens on PCs suck. They have never taken off and likely never will. Windows 8 is more designed for Tablets and SmartPhones. I personally do not care about tablets and SmartPhones.

Metro is optional, yo.

If they don't realize how bad of a mistake Metro is on desktops and laptops, they Microsoft will lose a lot of market share to Apple and Linux.

Every year is the year of Linux.

Mac OS is going to rise in popularity regardless of what Windows does, I figure long-term stability for Mac OS is in the 20-30% range, instead of the 7% (or whatever) they have now.

My reasons for disliking the Metro UI and Start Screen is because its clumsy and unwieldy. I know that Windows 8 has a desktop but the start menu should not have been taken out, that was a big mistake by Microsoft and is likely costing them sales. Windows 8 is doing WORSE then Vista was at this point after its launch. That alone should say something about how people feel about Windows 8. Windows 7 gained more market share in February, this is AFTER the launch of Windows 8.

Have I mentioned that Metro is optional?

A lot of people are going out of there way to buy Windows 7 PCs to avoid Windows 8. They are people special ordering them or buy refurbished PCs. Vista never surpassed XP and the same thing is about to happen with Windows 7 and Windows 8. Considering Windows 8 is off to a slower start then Vista was should in itself say something. People want to keep there start menu and desktop. They also do not want a mobile phone OS on there PC. These should prove I am not alone in my stance on Windows 8. It is going to fail. While I know XP got off to a slow start it was for different reasons, mostly security problems that got patched. Vista sold badly due to bugs. Windows 8 will fail for a different reason. They made the same mistake when they devloped Microsoft Bob, the Sidebar and Active Desktop. People do not like changes to the basic concept of the Windows interface.

You realize Windows 8 has a desktop that works just like the Windows 7 desktop, and a start screen that works just like the Windows 7 start screen?

 

[Tommy Vercetti]

That didn't stop XP which made changes to the windows interface.

And again flagging sales, even if they were contingent on actual consumer purchases (which, or the most part, they are not) would only indicate popular dissatisfaction with the product, not that the product is objectively worse than the previous iteration. People disliked Vista but that didn't mean Vista didn't end up becoming a sturdy workhorse of an OS. You still haven't provided anything substantive and objective which demonstrates Windows 8 is worse than Windows 7. You've only shown that you think it's uglier, that you don't like the completely optional metro, and that some people don't like the system.

None of the changes where as drastic as the ones made in Windows 8. Mobile in desktop OSes should be different. Tablets and SmartPhones are more for data consumption then Data Production. Desktops and Laptops are more for data production. Comparing Metro with the classic desktop is just a good example that new does NOT always mean better.


You mentioned PC fanboys bashing Macs just out of brand loyalty to Microsoft, while I am a PC user it has mostly been because Windows has more games then Mac. I have nothing against Apple.

 

[NBAfan]

Anyone who says the Windows 8 start menu is bad has either not tried it and is running off of irrational hate, or just has no idea how to use it.
What I have done with mine is remove all the Apps and just pinned all the programs I use to the start menu. Other then aesthetics, it functions exactly the same as my 7 start menu.