Has Pingala made the early game duller?

[Lord Lakely]

Mali will want Reyna.
.

Actually, as per PotatoMcWhiskey's last stream, I think Mali would want Moksha first. 280 faith for a free district is pure cheese.

 

[steveg700]

With respect, I don’t see how the new Pingala will prevent players from scraping out all the culture they can in the early game. If anything, Pingala would be synergistic with that.

Having a reliable income means you don't scrape and claw anymore. It stops being a desperate scramble and becomes more akin to self-indulgence.

 

[Tech Osen]

Will Pingala made the early game duller in your view?

Future and past tense in one sentence?

Anyway, we'll see. I do feel that the free envoy you get when you're the first to meet a CS is very unbalanced. It makes too much of a difference so early in the game.

 

[StrideColossus]

The work done on the governors is the best redesign we've seen so far in Civ 6.

Agreed. From the preview games I've seen it looks like more thought is going to required when choosing which governor / promotions, whereas in R&F the choice was basically Magnus irrespective of the civ, map, VC, etc. because he was so OP. This can only be a good thing.

 

[Seek]

The comparative forms are:
Dull - Duller - Civ VI End Game

There's no sign that they've done anything to make the last two Eras of the game any more interesting, and so your best games will still be the ones that end before you have to monotonously click through them.
I'm positively looking forward to never seeing a Giant Dull Robot in any of my games. . .

Considering about 75% of the new content in GS is late-game, I guess you just saved yourself $40. Congratulations, cya.

 

[anandus]

Having a reliable income means you don't scrape and claw anymore.

Why not?
The player that scrapes gets a head start. If I don't scrape someone else will, there is ALWAYS someone who meets a certain CS first and you'd want to be that one no matter what.

 

[Aristos]

Pingala ≈ Tradition Opening
Magnus ≈ Liberty Opening

 

[Legacy of Smiles]

I really wish the Cardinal made founding a religion easier. It'd add a way to reliably found a religion for Georgia and Spain as why would non-religious civs sacrifice Pingala or Magnus?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I really wish the Cardinal made founding a religion easier. It'd add a way to reliably found a religion for Georgia and Spain as why would non-religious civs sacrifice Pingala or Magnus?

That's a good point. Woundn't even have to be much--like +2 gpp or something.

 

[treadwin]

With respect, I don’t see how the new Pingala will prevent players from scraping out all the culture they can in the early game. If anything, Pingala would be synergistic with that.

As a builder, my mindset is that I don't start specializing into my victory type until my civ is established. I find that success is focused on building smoothly with religion, culture, science, production, food, and military balanced, not necessarily in that order. So my early governor choices, government policies, pantheon, religion, etc. are more about bringing up resources that I lack, than maximizing a single resource. I also figure I am going to have to get to a certain number of cities (depending on the map size) to play out the end game. So I have to do that by settlement expansion or conquest. Having more choices in governors makes it much easier to get some of the weaker Civs past the first age or two.

I know victory at a certain difficulty level, or at multiplayer, demands a wide shallow build and a conquest victory, but I don't enjoy that. I enjoy the "difficulty" of winning as Harald on a standard-size, emperor-level, normal continents map. Maybe not everyone's taste, but there it is.

One note on Armani and era scores. Sometimes, based on the start with civs that can do it, I like to start with a dark age. It isn't much of a handicap in certain situations, and having an heroic age as the third age can be spectacular. For certain Civs it can get you a conquest or an expansion age that gives you the city count you need, and for others it comes just when you need to start specializing into your faith/culture/science victory.

 

[Karmah]

I miss the 'it is too early to tell' option which happens to be the most sensible one.

 

[birbas12]

I think that governors overall made the game both duller and more complicated without any substantial increase in depth or added strategic value. It increases the skill ceiling (as you are forced to plan and execute governor rotations with precision) but it doesn’t make the game more strategic or interesting.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I think that governors overall made the game both duller and more complicated without any substantial increase in depth or added strategic value. It increases the skill ceiling (as you are forced to plan and execute governor rotations with precision) but it doesn’t make the game more strategic or interesting.

I like the idea of them just fine, just thought too many of the promotions were uninteresting/no good. We'll see if they're balanced out a little better (though with things like this someone out there will always discover a "best" path though them).

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

I absolutely love the rebalancing of governors. I've always thought in R+F that governors were a good idea but lacking in execution. Magnus was so OP, even aside from chopping. Zero pop loss for settlers and stronger internal trade routes are just so handy to start off with every time.

Now, there's more incentive to change strategy. I definitely will be exploring other governor strategies based on the map and my civ. FXS has taken one of my least favorite aspects about r+f and made it into something I'll have a lot of fun trying to figure out the optimal strategy with every game.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Considering about 75% of the new content in GS is late-game, I guess you just saved yourself $40. Congratulations, cya.

Not at all.
First, I have already played over 1800 hours of Civ VI, so I am by definition a Masochist, willing to put up with oodles of botched game design mechanics.
Second, in 1800 hours I have played as far as the Information Era in exactly one game: hence my assumption, from what I've seen in the GS previews, that they have added nothing that makes me any more inclined to string the game out to that Era again.
Finally, despite their emphasis on the last Era, which I personally think is badly misplaced but, hey, they will probably still make money on, they also included some intriguing new Civs with some intriguing new Start conditions and some potential bonanzas for the Mod Community, so I've already pre-ordered GS.

 

[ChocolateShake]

When I found out Pingala's culture and science promotions were both tier 1, I was a bit surprised.

I like the bonuses he's getting but I wonder if they're a bit too powerful compared to the others or not specialized enough. I think there'll still be plenty of meaningful choices to make between the governors though, especially combos like @Lord Lakely mentioned earlier - looking forward to trying out Mali with Moksha

It's certainly an interesting point, a size 10 city being governed by Pingala could become quite a powerhouse early on. On the other hand you will need to ensure that city has enough amenities, maybe there could be a condition to them only being granted to cities that are content. And you'll still want to grab sources of science and culture like @DannyMustardpants said, though not as much as before, so I see where you're coming from. I suppose though they can always tone it down to half a point each if it turns out to be too strong.

Actually, as per PotatoMcWhiskey's last stream, I think Mali would want Moksha first. 280 faith for a free district is pure cheese.

Brie or Camembert?

 

[steveg700]

Why not?

Because there is difference between going from 1 to 2 versus going from 7 to 8. An even less appreciable difference going from 11 to 12. Even less pronounced going 17 to 18.

And so on.

 

[anandus]

Because there is difference between going from 1 to 2 versus going from 7 to 8. An even less appreciable difference going from 11 to 12. Even less pronounced going 17 to 18. And so on.

So basically, just the self-explanatory reason.

Sure, but you still want to maximize, don't you? Especially since it works both ways, as you deny your competitors the bonus. That reason alone is enough.

Edit:
Mind you, maybe it's different in singleplayer, I only play multiplayer.

 

[ChocolateShake]

The player that scrapes gets a head start. If I don't scrape someone else will, there is ALWAYS someone who meets a certain CS first and you'd want to be that one no matter what.

Yup that's true, I think the way science and culture are at the moment it'll always be best to grab as much as you can early. You could be up against an opponent who could get much more out of Pingala than you could so it'll still be important to fight for the edge. Some AIs do tend to get huge cities early on. Pingala will make it easier to start off but you'll still need to get a good sized city and some time to get the 2 promotions.

I would like to see him have some sort of condition attached to these bonuses though.

 

[steveg700]

Sure, but you still want to maximize, don't you? Especially since it works both ways, as you deny your competitors the bonus. That reason alone is enough.

What you would be willing to do for five dollars is probably less than someone on the streets desperate for their next meal would do for the same amount. It just isn't going to make as big of an impact.

If you have a baseline reliable income, what once was a major advantage now becomes more of a nice option for a slight advantage.