Has Southeast Asia ever had a Civ

[Tee Kay]

Boy, this thread got derailed really fast.

I bet the SE Asian civ, if there is one, will be Siam.

Pros:
- Only civ to remain strong and united for the whole period between 1400 - 2007.
- Only SE Asian civ not colonised by Europeans
- Burma and Khmer are already represented in Civilization series.
- Well-known to Westerners (ie Firaxis' target market).

Cons:
- Problem with selecting the leader. Insulting the monarchy is a very serious crime in Thailand.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Please explain the leader issue. Someone else brought this up before, and I must confess I don't understand it.

 

[Tee Kay]

Please explain the leader issue. Someone else brought this up before, and I must confess I don't understand it.

Remember the time where a Swiss man was sentenced to jail when he was painting over the portrait of the king? (he was given a Royal pardon by the way) Well the Thais take this very seriously. The concept of "devaraja" (heavenly king) is alive and well in Thailand. Thais respected him a lot, partly because of tradition and partly because the king genuinely cared for the welfare of the people and his deeds are still remembered and honoured. Depicting any Thai monarch, past or present, in Civ may provoked not-so-friendly responses from the Thai government. Firaxis will have to tread carefully if they choose to put Thailand in BTS.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

And what exactly is a not-so-friendly response? I don't know if Thailand is a major market for Civ or not, but last time I checked the company is based in America. I guess for that reason they may not do it, so as not to lose market share, but solely on the principle of it I can't see a reason they wouldn't do it.

In a similar way, there are some Islamic fundamentalists who might not take too kindly to a representation of Muhammad in Civ 4, but they've got far more important issues to worry about than a silly computer game.

 

[Tee Kay]

And what exactly is a not-so-friendly response? I don't know if Thailand is a major market for Civ or not, but last time I checked the company is based in America. I guess for that reason they may not do it, so as not to lose market share, but solely on the principle of it I can't see a reason they wouldn't do it.

In a similar way, there are some Islamic fundamentalists who might not take too kindly to a representation of Muhammad in Civ 4, but they've got far more important issues to worry about than a silly computer game.

You have a point. The Thai government may not care too much about it (they may even welcome it). But with the current political situation, who knows?

Hopefully the Thai government and Firaxis can work something else and we'll see Thais in the game at last!

 

[Koelle]

It's ridiculous that Burma and Khmer are already represented, but Thais still want in because Thai, Khmer, Burmese are almost the same culturally. The place is reserved for Vietnam, who represents a different and unique culture than those above

 

[mitsho]

Again, the Thai (as Israel) were in CTP and I haven't heard of protests there, so I don't think we will see protests here. I can't think of any way it could be insulting to depict a king in such a game (ok, Mao wasn't in the civ3-china-version either, so you have something there). Did "Anna and the king" spark tensions? (That was Thai, right?)

 

[Koelle]

You havent heard of protests because no one thinks Thailand would be considered as a civilization. I could see something seriously happens if someone here says the Thai's king (in the game) looks like a monkey

 

[cybrxkhan]

It's ridiculous that Burma and Khmer are already represented, but Thais still want in because Thai, Khmer, Burmese are almost the same culturally. The place is reserved for Vietnam, who represents a different and unique culture than those above

they don't have PHO, now do they?

 

[mitsho]

You havent heard of protests because no one thinks Thailand would be considered as a civilization. I could see something seriously happens if someone here says the Thai's king (in the game) looks like a monkey

Again, Thailand was a civ in Civilization: Call to Power 1 and 2 and there were no complaints. Of course, the king was not depicted (as CTP used ambassadors), but they still used a real name. And I'm sure, if I were to go around and look at various other historical strategy games, I would be able to gather some incidents, where Thailand was in and where it didn't spark protests.

m

 

[Pratputajao]

It's ridiculous that Burma and Khmer are already represented, but Thais still want in because Thai, Khmer, Burmese are almost the same culturally. The place is reserved for Vietnam, who represents a different and unique culture than those above

The same could be said about china, korea, vietnam, they are all the same culture. Now I know that isnt true just as Burma, Siam, Khmer arent the same. Siam having a much larger chinese influence in the country than the other two. China and Siam are extreemly close diplimatically becouse of the connection.

Either way it doesnt matter there, will be no Burma. Well not in a Sid Meyers(sp?) Civ. I didnt know they were in Civ call to power?

 

[Pratputajao]

Did "Anna and the king" spark tensions? (That was Thai, right?)

Sure did. Still cant watch that movie in thailand! There is more of a reason than just representing the Thai king though. It is a slander on the Thai people. The movie basically implied that "Anna" gave the Thai King (King Monkut the great) all his ideas for modernising the country. This is historically incorect. In the new version (with chow yun fat) Thai HS students made them change part of the movies promotion from a "Historical account" to "Anna----- (cant remember her last name) account". They did this by providing overwelming evidence to the contrary. Even after that you still cant get that version either. Thais are stuborn about their kings and their history. Very proud (though also humble) people

 

[Pratputajao]

Chinese girls are attractive. Indian girls, maybe even a little bit more. But neither compares to the raw sexuality of the southeast Asian girl...

No offense

Absolutly....I married one!!!

 

[mitsho]

Sure did. Still cant watch that movie in thailand! There is more of a reason than just representing the Thai king though. It is a slander on the Thai people. The movie basically implied that "Anna" gave the Thai King (King Monkut the great) all his ideas for modernising the country. This is historically incorect. In the new version (with chow yun fat) Thai HS students made them change part of the movies promotion from a "Historical account" to "Anna----- (cant remember her last name) account". They did this by providing overwelming evidence to the contrary. Even after that you still cant get that version either. Thais are stuborn about their kings and their history. Very proud (though also humble) people

Ok, then please accept my apologies for my ignorance on that part so far. I didn't know that and it is very nice that in this forum, you most of the time learn something new. Still, though, the video-game part of my post has not yet been disputed.

mfG mick

 

[gettingfat]

Sure did. Still cant watch that movie in thailand! There is more of a reason than just representing the Thai king though. It is a slander on the Thai people. The movie basically implied that "Anna" gave the Thai King (King Monkut the great) all his ideas for modernising the country. This is historically incorect. In the new version (with chow yun fat) Thai HS students made them change part of the movies promotion from a "Historical account" to "Anna----- (cant remember her last name) account". They did this by providing overwelming evidence to the contrary. Even after that you still cant get that version either. Thais are stuborn about their kings and their history. Very proud (though also humble) people

I agree Thai won't work. There's no way every historical figure is made cartoonish and somewhat devilish but only the Thai leader looks handsome and serene. Vietnam is still the way to go.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I agree Thai won't work. There's no way every historical figure is made cartoonish and somewhat devilish but only the Thai leader looks handsome and serene. Vietnam is still the way to go.

We don't want the civilization makers to be arrested in Thailand or something, or else we'll have to make Civilization 5 ourselves!

Thais are stuborn about their kings and their history. Very proud (though also humble) people

Same with us Vietnamese.

 

[Koelle]

I think Firaxis prefers Chinese culture to Indian culture, as well as Western Europe to Eastern Europe like someone has said in another topic. We have seen almost every western european Civs but Russia is the only eastern european civ included so far. The same goes for Asia, you have seen Mongolia, Japan, Korea, but not Pakistan, Bangladesh or Sri Lanka. So this time, the next asian civ will be Vietnam, who though shares a few things with China, but still represents the unique culture of the region.
Not like in China where there's no Mao in the game, no one in Vietnam will protest if Ho Chi Minh or whosoever picked as the leader doesnt look as good as they want. And you still can play in Vietnam games like Viet Cong, Battlefield: Vietnam and other games with Vietnam in the title (most of them are crap, but people still buy them because of Vietnam). Firaxis has added Korea for commercial reason and they will add Vietnam as well. After all, Thailand is too peaceful to be included in a war game

 

[cybrxkhan]

I think Firaxis prefers Chinese culture to Indian culture, as well as Western Europe to Eastern Europe like someone has said in another topic. We have seen almost every western european Civs but Russia is the only eastern european civ included so far. The same goes for Asia, you have seen Mongolia, Japan, Korea, but not Pakistan, Bangladesh or Sri Lanka. So this time, the next asian civ will be Vietnam, who though shares a few things with China, but still represents the unique culture of the region.
Not like in China where there's no Mao in the game, no one in Vietnam will protest if Ho Chi Minh or whosoever picked as the leader doesnt look as good as they want. And you still can play in Vietnam games like Viet Cong, Battlefield: Vietnam and other games with Vietnam in the title (most of them are crap, but people still buy them because of Vietnam). Firaxis has added Korea for commercial reason and they will add Vietnam as well. After all, Thailand is too peaceful to be included in a war game

yup. i have to agree with that... as well as your statement on Uncle Ho. but i must say that in America (and probably Europe and other Vietnamese-immigrant-inhabited areas), most if not almost all of the Vietnamese can be very sensitive to the communists. For example, i know once a Vietnamese shopkeeper in Los Angeles or one of its suburbs hung the Vietnamese flag on his door (North Vietnamese flag). The next day, hundreds of Vietnamese were standing around his shop protesting.

Well, but i still think the addition of Uncle Ho is a likely possibility, abeit one I won't be so pleased with.

And as for the Thai being peaceful... they aren't that peaceful...

 

[Pratputajao]

Ok, then please accept my apologies for my ignorance on that part so far. I didn't know that and it is very nice that in this forum, you most of the time learn something new. Still, though, the video-game part of my post has not yet been disputed.

mfG mick

Mitsho, no offence taken I was just passing on some info thats all. Actually I think it goes a bit too far. I mean the real history is known, a movie will only inspire some one to check up on the facts.

I didnt know that Siam was in CTP? Well at least someone recognized the importance of the Civ! They should deffinately be in CIV but I am affraid we are stuck with Khmer... just have to wait and see.

 

[Pratputajao]

I think Firaxis prefers Chinese culture to Indian culture, as well as Western Europe to Eastern Europe like someone has said in another topic. We have seen almost every western european Civs but Russia is the only eastern european civ included so far. The same goes for Asia, you have seen Mongolia, Japan, Korea, but not Pakistan, Bangladesh or Sri Lanka. So this time, the next asian civ will be Vietnam, who though shares a few things with China, but still represents the unique culture of the region.
Not like in China where there's no Mao in the game, no one in Vietnam will protest if Ho Chi Minh or whosoever picked as the leader doesnt look as good as they want. And you still can play in Vietnam games like Viet Cong, Battlefield: Vietnam and other games with Vietnam in the title (most of them are crap, but people still buy them because of Vietnam). Firaxis has added Korea for commercial reason and they will add Vietnam as well. After all, Thailand is too peaceful to be included in a war game

Well I think they added Korea for Koreans in Korea, is this game even availible in Vietnam (I really dont know) I know its not available in China as is. Somone posted some screens from the Chinese version....very....wierd to say the least. There are no modern civs just fictional ones. But I think the Vietnamese market in America is quite large (much larger than Thai, they generally dont leave home) so you have a good point. That and the problem of depicting the king will probably mean you will see Vietnam before Thailand. (depends how Firaxis feels about the Thai market). Thailand is very peaceful now, not been in a real war since the 40s. But that hasnt allways been the case, Thailand was becomeing quite expansionist in the 19 cent. Thanks to france and britan history for that part of the world was not allowed to continue on by itself. Also peaceful thais invented Muay thai a brutal martial art (go see any tony jaa movie for muay Buran predisesor to muay thai). But overall Thais are one of the most peaceful people on the planet....until they become mad then watch out they REALLY GET MAD!!! They live their lives with a saying of Mai bpen rai wich basically translates just relaxe and take things as they are. How else would they deal with the Legondary traffic in BKK
(yes it is as bad as everyone says...maybe worse)