Hatty - Monarch Cookbook Mark II (IC concurrent)

[lymond]

@learner_gamer

Spoiler :

Not sure if tedious is the right word, but that is certainly a strong opening. Feel free to continue playing in the next round. Your pseudo-vote will still be valuable this round.

Nice demo of how to get the most out of those WCs.

 

[lymond]

at stevoh

Spoiler :

AH>Mining>BW>Fishing>Hunting>Archery(for barbs)>Pottery and writing.

Hunting and Archery are a complete waste on this map. Your leader is creative, so you want writing ASAP to keep the economy afloat. Archery is generally always a waste IMO. You have WCs - no need for archers - and spawnbusting is very easy on this map.

Anyway, just a thought for you. Not a bad round by any means, but you should be better off research wise at this point.

 

[lymond]

@Welsh_I

Spoiler :

Yep, try not to overwhip too early especially in your cap. The nice thing generally about your cap is that once it grows and has improvements - food/mines/strat resources, it is usually quite productive and chopping forests helps speed things like peaceful expansion or that early rush army. So once writng is in, Libraries will come quick too with a creative leader. I would have waited on the granary and built WCs in its place. Granaries are vitally important in new cities, but it can wait a bit in the cap so the cap can focus on expansion or units.

The whip is great later once granaries are in and getting in some key infra depending on city type, but should be used judicially and probably only in cities with decent food. I like the whip a lot of 2popping workers in establish high food cities

good to see a welshman on here

 

[Siran]

Spoiler :

I settled in place and send my warrior exploring so the se.

Research order was AH -> Mining -> BW -> Writing -> Pottery -> Fishing -> Alphabet (12 turns to finish).

I met Shaka after three turns or something like that. Too close for comfort. After discovering these little ponies I decided to do something to him very soon.

Build worker -> Barracks -> 7 War Chariots -> Settler ->

I used some of the early chariots to scout Shaka out a bit and saw him starting to connect the copper. Got my war chariots into place, destroyed his copper mine and got to work.

Captured Ulundi in 2275 BC and aMsomething in 2200 BC. Decided to keep both of them and changed to peaceful expansion. I used the chariots for further fog busting and killing some barbarians.

I've got 4 cities with another settler ready to move. 4 workers. Met Charlemagne, Mansa and Ceasar.

 

[Welsh_Insomniac]

@Welsh_I

Spoiler :

Thanks for the advice... I shouldn't have really changed my non whipping strat for this start. I usually don't whip but I got scared of shakka and panicked so I crashed my capital in order to throw all the chariots I could at him. Yeah, at least it will regain, I think I need to gain 8 more happiness to regain... which I know is a huge challenge. I'll need to head for Monarchy, build cheap units (this will cost a lot of turns) and ride out the storm.

I must say I'm also not familiar with Epic speed either, everything is longer and I'm not really sure on build speeds/which is best for what etc. I always hear that Epic is the speed to play so I will definitely play that as my standard from now on.

Thank you OP for this, it's really interesting seeing peoples styles and it really shows my weaknesses

Are there not many Welshmen on this forum then?

 

[Fezzik]

Giving this a shot. My first attempt at one of these. I usually play on Emperor, barely scraping by. This went alright.

Spoiler :

Settled 1N to lose some water tiles while remaining coastal to work the seafood. Went worker first then Barracks while researching Fishing, then screwed around and finally switched to making that first workboat, all while growing to size 3. Then built second worker. First improved the pigs then the horses. As soon as barracks was done I started pumping out WCs. 1975-1850 BC captured each of Shaka's 3 cities. Razed the coastal one and kept the others.

Currently with 3 cities, capital and 2 of Shaka's 3 former cities. Barb dye city is still there. 6 workers. 4 WCs on the way to HRE to go up against that one archer garrison in his capital, though they could be diverted to barb city. I thought that might wait for later. HRE's capital looks too tempting to pass up. Looks like HRE just settled a second city down there.

Economy is very good. Can break even at 70% but I'm sitting on 160 Working on Code of Laws to allow some courthouses for further expansion, plan to found Confuscianism, and trade CoL to everyone to get Alphabet and other techs. Not sure if there are enough AI to trade with though. Anyway, with the loot from Shaka, should be able to self-research CoL easily and save Oracle for something else. Usually my economy is looking pretty awful by this point. But we're in good shape. Plenty of room to fill in a bunch of cities if so desired.

Score-wise, not so hot. But in good position to take the lead with CoL and some trades. And take out HRE.

EDIT: Oh yeah, tech path went something like:
AH->Fishing->Mining->BW->Writing->Pottery->Mysticism->Polytheism->Priesthood->(now) CoL

Ulundi is obscured, but it is size 3.

 

[lymond]

Thank you OP for this, it's really interesting seeing peoples styles and it really shows my weaknesses

Are there not many Welshmen on this forum then?

Please spoiler that first paragraph or take out the references...thanks

Whipping is a vital part of learning to play at higher levels. It just a matter of learning to use it wisely.

ha...not seen many welshman here, at least listed. I guess I mentioned it since I have quite a bit of Welsh heritage.

 

[vranasm]

nice to see some strong saves here ;-). I think first 2 positions for voting I have now clear.

 

[lymond]

Alright! We are getting some good participation this game. I'm seeing a lot of new faces here too (ugh...or avatars). Keep the games coming.

I will likely be away from the computer the next couple of days. I will look to setup the vote process on Sunday evening, with at least a couple of days for voting - or more if needed.

Also, note that for the purposes of the cookbook, please do not play your game past the end date for a give round. Obviously, some folks scout better than others but playing longer generally ruins the spirit of the game. Of course, there is no way to police this, but you get the idea.

Everyone is more than welcome to play any of their original saves (or anyone else's) after completion of the cookbook if they so desire.

 

[Fezzik]

@Siran

Spoiler :

Captured Ulundi in 2275 BC and aMsomething in 2200 BC. Decided to keep both of them and changed to peaceful expansion. I used the chariots for further fog busting and killing some barbarians.

Looks like we both kept those cities, but your cities look a good healthy size for this early. The biggest difference must be how much earlier you captured them.

Tech-wise mine is ok, but the rest...I dunno.

 

[Siran]

@Siran

Spoiler :

Looks like we both kept those cities, but your cities look a good healthy size for this early. The biggest difference must be how much earlier you captured them.

Tech-wise mine is ok, but the rest...I dunno.

Great, Opera just took a backspace as a command to go back a page and deleted my whole text...

Spoiler :

Yes, Shaka's two cities look better because they had some time to grow and I could improve the land earlier. aMwhatever is in a slightly different position in my game and already had an improved sheep, so it started growing earlier.
Workerwise I thing you're better than me with 6 to 4 but my workers worked more. But I think you'll catch up in that area pretty fast with six workers building improvements.

I think you whipped more in your capital. At least I don't see how you could have such a small capital without whipping. I grew my capital to the happy cap, told my people to work the mines and got my WCs out in about 3 turns. Can't get faster than that with whipping. At least not for a longer time.

I'd forget about attacking Charlemagne, at least if you plan to do it with just four WCs. Yes, there is only one archer in there but you need some time to move your WCs down there, giving him plenty of time to build another one and you have to declare war. With a capital the size of 8 he can whip two archers till you reach the capital. So that's you with 4 WCs against 2-4 protective archers in a city with 50% culture. I don't see how you could pull that one off.
I'd divert those 3 WCs to the barbarian city, capture that and use them afterwards as garrisons or for fogbusting. I think i wouldn't keep the cities as unprotected if I had scouted as far as you have.

I don't CoL as much as I used to. It takes you quite some time to build courthouses to get any kind of improvement to you economy. I took alphabet to get the chance to build research while I get more improvements up and those cottages up and running. And I hope of course I can do some trading.

 

[Fezzik]

@Siran

Spoiler :

I think you whipped more in your capital. At least I don't see how you could have such a small capital without whipping. I grew my capital to the happy cap, told my people to work the mines and got my WCs out in about 3 turns. Can't get faster than that with whipping. At least not for a longer time.

I'd forget about attacking Charlemagne, at least if you plan to do it with just four WCs. Yes, there is only one archer in there but you need some time to move your WCs down there, giving him plenty of time to build another one and you have to declare war. With a capital the size of 8 he can whip two archers till you reach the capital. So that's you with 4 WCs against 2-4 protective archers in a city with 50% culture. I don't see how you could pull that one off.

Yeah, thinking about the fight more realistically there is too much culture to get into his capital quick enough. I'd be happier with 8 WCs, assuming he still has only one or two archers in the cap.

My capital is size 5. I actually didn't whip at all, and it was normally 3 turns to produce a WC I think. I'm working the food right now because I just raised my happy cap to 6 with the Gold. Still not sure how you got the WCs out quicker though. Maybe you used fewer to take Shaka's land? I guess I got really lucky that he didn't connect the Copper. I destroyed the mine, but he hadn't built the road yet if I remember right. Didn't have any spears anyway.

 

[Siran]

@fezzik

Spoiler :

I think I had about 6 or 7 WCs before I attacked. I had my eye on that copper he had in his bfc and attacked the turn before he could connect it to his capital. I plundered it which was totally unnecessary.
I knew the capital was on flat land. I think it had two archers in there and not that much culture but I don't really remember. Two archers against 6 or 7 WCs was good enough to get that city.
I needed four of my surviving WCs and a new one to get the second city. (I hate archers in cities on hills!)

How many WCs did you have when you attacked Shaka and what was your build order in your capital?

By the way I'm not sure you can beat Charlemagne with 8 WCs, more like 12 or 16.

 

[Fezzik]

@Siran

Spoiler :

I think 8. Must have come down to better builds and micro I think.

 

[Trynthlas]

Well, here's me. Still working on Monarch so I doubt it's as nice as some others

Spoiler :

We start off by moving the warrior up into the hills, end up settling 1N to get extra hammer availability. This screams bureaucracy capitol to me, with the flood plains and decent amount of hills. It could also be a GP farm with the nice food availability.

Spoiler :

Started tech towards AH for the pigs, since that juicy 6-food tile is too nice to miss! I went exploring to the north, and look whose scout wanders into my territory...

Spoiler :

My last monarch game, Tryn-M3, I made the mistake of being too timid with early war, so this time I decided to go all-out, especially with such a nasty neighbor. Having started with AH is convenient, since our UU is ridiculously awesome provided we have horses nearby.

T18: AH comes in, and we have horses. Go for Mining next so my worker has something to do after hooking up the two tiles.

Meet Mansa on T21.

T23: Worker finished, queue barracks.

T28: Mining done, go for Fishing next to hook up the clams. BW can wait until after Fishing. I won't need to chop or whip just yet.

T35: Fishing done, on to Bronze Working.

T36: Being the warmonger I've decided to be, I snipe a worker from Shaka as soon as I see him! ...and then get a cease-fire a few turns later (probably could have done it earlier in fact). I use the stolen worker, escorted by the warrior, to build a road back home.

Spoiler :

T46: Barracks finished -> Workboat

T52: Workboat finished -> Warrior (for garrison in capitol)

T53: BW done, switch to slavery (yay Spiritual! ). Go for Writing next, since it provides libraries and opens up the CoL oracle slingshot (which is ambitious for me on Monarch, given the warmonger start. Don't know that I could pull it off).

T56: Warrior finished -> Chariot spam

T57: Meet Charlemagne.

T68: Writing done -> Pottery.

T74: After a little whipping, some chopping, and generally building as fast as I can I have 5 chariots on Shaka's border, and what do you know but he sent out another un-escorted worker! Time to go.

Spoiler :

T76: What, only 2 archers in Ulundi? SMASH!

Spoiler :

T78: Pottery done, queue Myst -> Poly -> Priest. Sack and raze Shaka's second and final city (I caught a settler in the capitol!)

Spoiler :

Well, here I had a decision to make. We eliminated the big threat next door and could switch to peaceful expansion from here on out, which would be my normal path. However, even during the turns of capturing Shaka's cities I was still cranking out more chariots, and now they're all geared up with nowhere to go...and I decided that if I was going to warmonger, well then I'm going to WARMONGER! Eyes were now set on Mansa...not going to touch protective Charlie before catapults.

T81: Ulundi out of anarchy, set warrior and whip it for a garrison, then start granary.

T83: Meet JC.

T90: After swarming around to find Mansa's borders and gathering my forces, the time has come! Mansa falls swiftly to the chariot army.

Spoiler :

T93: Mansa is dead, I keep the capitol and raze the other. Barb city pops nearby so I gather the chariots...

and on T96:

Spoiler :

With Mansa dead, I stop the production of war chariots and build a library in the capitol. Manage to run two scientists for a few turns (until the gold is hooked up) and then switch tiles to get growth ASAP. I think that's all the early warmongering that is justified, especially with the umpteen barbarian cities popping up everywhere and a protective civ to our southwest. Time to consolidate and expand! I want to chop/whip out a settler from Thebes to grab the marble (necessary if I'm going to manage the oracle), and then smash barbarian cities and fill in my territory as the economy allows.

Here's our status:

Spoiler :

Save is attached!

 

[fils]

Hi guys, this looks great, but first a newbie question here: when I try to load the game with BUFFY mod it says "this save requires the following mod to be loaded: none" and prompts me to restart civ4. I see that everyone else has it running, what am I doing wrong??

 

[Walkabout]

First time at one of these. It's a lot of fun. Anyway, here's my shot at it...

Spoiler :

Settled in place, worker first, researched animal husbandry and started building war chariots about the same time that Shaka dropped by. Searched east until I found him and decided to take a chance on a rush, since the Egyptian UU is so strong and I figured he couldn't have copper yet. Stole a worker and declared war in 3200. Then parked my warrior on the forested hill south of Ulundi for a choke. That held up until 2575 -- time enough to get three chariots up and discover bronze (so three more chariots soon to follow from whips and chops). Meanwhile, I'd also built a road from Thebes most of the way back to Ulundi. I was in pretty good shape to attack. It didn't hurt any that when my warrior died, he took one of Shaka's archers with him. By 2350 I had six chariots in place against Shaka's three archers and easily captured Ulundi. I got lucky on the rolls, losing only one chariot in the process.

By 2275 I had writing and had scouted around enough to decide that I would found my third city West or S. West of Ulundi for a culture block, back-filling some of the city sites closer to home late on. I founded Memphis in 1875 (kinda late, I know...) and by 1700 had the border pop to control a nice swath of land from Mansa north. About this time a couple barbarian cities cropped up behind the lines. They were in acceptable spots and saved me the trouble of having to build settlers, so I parked my chariots near by and waited for them to grow to size two so I could harvest them. (Bactrian just went to 2 at 1500.)

I've opened borders with Julie and Mansa, and though Julie's sniffing around "my" barb cities, I can take them before him. (Still, I wonder if I should have closed borders to him...) In sum I've got three cities up and running (two are going to be power-houses), with another two soon to come and easy spots for a couple more. I've got a decent-sized military, so Julie doesn't concern me (yet), and Mansa's about to spread Judaism to me, which I figure I'll adopt, so he and I should be buddies for a while.

Overall I'm looking at a peaceful game, specialist heavy, maybe going for culture or space. Tech path to date was AH>Pot>Mine>BW>Writing>Math. Currently working on Iron (so I can cut back some of that jungle), then I figure masonry for aqueducts and maybe a shot at the hanging gardens.

My play was a little sloppy without BUFFY (it really spoils you), but I think this is a pretty solid foundation. I'm anxious to see what others have done.

 

[Siran]

I went through the saves and tried to come up with some statistics to compare them.

Spoiler :

vranasm

4 cities
5 worker
6 warriors
AH, mining, Fishing, Pottery, BW, Writing, Myst, Poly, Maso, Pri (3 rounds)
Library in Capital
+36 research (100%), +16 gold (100%), break even at 60%
Shaka's still alive

Invalice

2 cities
2 worker
2 warriors, 2WCs
Fishing, Pottery, Mining, AH, BW, Writing, Alphabet (7 rounds)
Granary, Library in Capital, Granary in Memphis
+20 research (100%), +14 gold (100%), break even at 80%
Shaka's still alive

Cenan

5 cities
4 workers
3 warrior, 1 axeman, 8 WCs
AH, Mining, BW, Pottery, Writing, Alphabet (11 rounds)
Barracks, Library in Capital, Barracks in Memphis, Granary in Ulundi
+36 research (100%), +2 gold (100%), break even at 0%
Shaka's gone

Welsh Insomniac

4 cities
3 workers
3 warriors, 2 axemen, 4 WCs
AH, Fishing, Mining, BW, Pottery, Writing, Mysticism, Masonry (2 rounds)
Barracks, Granary in Capital, Barracks, Granary in Memphis
+16 research (100%), +4 gold (100%), break even at 20%
Shaka's still alive (at war)

Stevoh

4 cities
6 workers
3 warriors, 5 WCs
AH, Mining, BW, Fishing, Hunting, Archery, Pottery, Wrting (21 rounds)
Barracks in Capital, Barracks in Memphis
16 research (100%, -1 gold (100%)
Shaka's gone

Siran

4 cities, 1 settler
4 workers
3 warriors, 6 WCs
AH, Mining, BW, Writing, Pottery, Fishing, Alphabet (12 rounds)
Barracks in Capital, Library in Memphis, Library in Ulundi
36 research (100%), 13 gold (100%), break even at 40%
Shaka is gone

Fezzik

3 cities
6 workers
1 warrior, 3 WCs
AH, Fishing, Mining, BW, Writing, Pottery, Mysticism, Polytheimus, Priesthood, Code of Laws (27 rounds)
Barracks, Library in Capital, Granary in Ulundi
26 research (100%), 13 gold (100%), break even at 50%
Shaka's gone

Trynthlas

3 cities
6 workers
3 warriors, 9 WCs
AH, Mining, Fishing, BW, Writing, Pottery, Mysticism, Polytheism, Priesthood (3 rounds)
Barracks, Library in Capital, Granary in Ulundi, Granary in Timbuktu
34 research (100%), 11 gold (100%), break even at 30%
Shaka and Mansa Munsa are gone
A lot of free land to backfill (barbarian cities)

Walkabout

3 cities
3 workers
2 warriors, 3 axemen, 7 WCs
AH, Pottery, Mining, BW, Writing, Mathematics, Iron Working (11 rounds)
Granary, Library in Capital, Granary, Library in Ulundi
39 research (100%), 14 gold (100%), break even at 50%
Shaka is gone
A lot of free land to backfill (barbarian cities)

 

[Trynthlas]

Nice, thanks Siran!

 

[lymond]

Hey folks - I'm back.

I will consolidate the saves and create a post to initiate the voting round tonight. The voting will take place from the time I post until late Tuesday evening. (I'm EST in the US)

I will not be voting but will try to provide some feedback after all the votes are in. Hopefully, Kossin will make a drive by critique if he gets that time as well as other veterans that are far better players than me.

If you are still interested in submitting a save for the voting, please feel free to do so in the next 2 or 3 hours and it will be included.

Good job on the stats, Siran.