Hegemon

[Rambuchan]

Verily, Keroros, thou art a demi-god in our midst. To have led not one but two Hellenic peoples to victory is an heroic feat in itself. But to have done so in different ways is worthy of praise as only the divines are due. And, yet further still, you have perfectly sensed the alignment of the stars and posted at a time when the cogs of the Hegemon modding machine are once again stirring (more detail on this in next post). All put together, this is nothing short of a demonstration of divine blood coursing through your veins. All hail!

First, if you don't mind, and I'm sure you appreciate it's important to get feedback, a few questions on your game please. Then I'll give you and others an update in the next post.

So, once again, well done. I hope you had fun with the mighty Makedon? Seems you faced down the double barbarian threat of the Thracians and Illyrians with verve. I'm loving that human wall to the east. Were they a suitable challenge?

~ On your Hegemonic Victory:

Of course, I'm curious, it's important, did you find this too difficult, too easy or just about right to achieve? Did you trade or conquer for the required resources, or use a blend? It seems from your map that you traded a fair bit. I hope that wasn't too easy.

~ On your near Tribute Victory:

That's interesting. I really thought 60K would be too high. Seems I might have to keep the limit as is. But can I just check the settings you have for VPs in the biq you played with please? The settings in the biq I will be releasing are as follows:

Wonder Cost * 10
Defeating Opposing Unit * Cost 2
Advancement * Cost 2
City Conquest * Population 50
Victory Point Scoring 0
Capturing Special Unit 200
Gold for Capture 50

~ Regarding the other civs:

- I'm glad to hear Thebes were a thorn in your side. I hope there was evidence of their Boeotian League improvements assisting them? Any indication of Athens and Sparta building and using theirs too?

- Lydia storming it. Grand. I'm happy with that. They should threaten victory. But it should be the Domination Victory they threaten.

- Sparta aren't always vicious steam rollers, it's true. I have of course been scouring Thucydides for this scenario and he often notes that they were slow and reluctant into war, and rarely the interventionist type. But, once stirred, they can be formidable, both as a power themselves and also diplomatically in calling up grand alliances, which they've managed easily in every game I've played. So I think I'm happy to live with their behaviour as is.

- I'm not sure lack of roads is the problem with what you're describing with the likes of Elis. I've seen them and say Messenia building them in my games. I think their lack of tech advancement has more to do with (a) them not being given the river under their capital, which I've used to boost many important civs, and also (b) that their expansion and city number is effectively blocked by Sparta. I generally feel that the more minor civs are about right but if you think it's really really wrong I can check things out.

- In the new unit assignment system that's coming with the upgrade the likes of Elis are beefed up some. So I hope those Akonista armies won't happen too much.

~ Regarding the Ionian Dock (part of the Hellenes League) & League Improvements in General:

Yes, I've already fixed this. Simply by repositioning the resources. It is still difficult to find the right placement, but at least it's possible now! In general, to give players similar strategic goals and challenges as these powers faced in history, I have chosen to put great importance on city placement in connection with the resources required to build certain improvements. It's tricky, but gets your mind into the same problems and goals as those civs faced in history. And it gets you going after the right bits of land.

Also, amongst the many changes I've made for release, I've drastically reduced the costs of the League Improvements, especially those that can only be built far from the capital. I've also cranked up the frequency of their respective auto-production. These changes make them more attractive and realistic and, I think, gives both human and AI a real incentive to build them.

 

[Rambuchan]

Right, so here's on update on the update that's coming:

Firstly, apologies for being a bit quiet on this just lately. Work has been going on but has been slowed by a kooky cocktail of much professional work, family, travel, Christmas, some winter blues and Skyrim. I've also been waiting to actually get all the changes and improvements that are planned done before releasing. There are many significant improvements and changes including:

A Brand New Classical Greek Interface:

Courtesy of the outrageously talented and dedicated Vuldacon. What can I say? It's amazing what he has done with my ridiculous requests. Everything from the city screen, to buttons, to the terrain info box, the game light and so on. He's produced some awesome work and run on with things I've suggested in ways that have astounded me.

Brand New Resource Art:

Vuldacon has reworked all those tribal resources that use the episema and made them gleam. And he's either improved or created replacements for the natural resources. These are all clearer, richer in colour and simply more beautiful.

Other Art Improvements:

Things like the Victory Progress Screen (F8 button) has been given a tasty lick with some dramatic art added to it. There's a whole new Spaceship / Hegemonic Victory Progress screen coming, which we're working on right now. The art for the worker jobs and their associated buttons have been given the Vuldacon treatment too. And I've fished out a whole new bunch of tech icons as well.

New Unit Assignment System:

I've taken a detailed second look and changed which civs get which units when. I've also tweaked some stats here and there. This has taken a long long time but it's done now.

Fixed Many Units:

Especially the artillery units. So there are now more historically accurate Battering Rams (thanks to Virote Considon pointing those out to me) and, you'll love this, a whole new way of using the Greek War Fire unit. I'll keep that a surprise. Vuldacon has also made a more appropriate and realistic sound effect for the Katapeltikon, which remains. Many other tweaks and changes to existing units.

New Units:

As requested, I've now introduced Classical Era cavalry. So cavalry is now available in every era of the game. There are also new unique units for Elis (The Olympian Racing Champion - a chariot), Ithaka (see next note), Ailoia (The Arbitrator - a kind of bureaucrat), Kerkira (The Corcyrean Trireme), Phokis (The Delphic Priest) and I've renamed Sparta's UU to the Homoioi. Others too but I forget now.

New mini-game within the game:

Ithaka, though with no chance of winning the main game, now have a nice Homeric challenge connected to their new UU and his companions. Not too hard to guess what this is, but can you manage to fully exploit it by winning the mini-game within the game?

Fixes to the League Wonders & Improvements:

These have been tweaked to be both easier to build and more powerful once built. Fear the top flight, league leading civs of Athens, Sparta, Thebes and Macedon!

New Colony Wonders:

As suggested by Keroro and discussed previously in the thread, there is now a whole new line of Colony Wonders unique to Phokis, Euboia, Ionia and Corinth. These are modelled on the Colonies these civs established in history and provide them with riches, units and new in-game challenges and goals. Of course, there's some gorgeous Wondersplash art that comes with these.

A Classical Greek Soundtrack:

Yes, I've been scouring and searching and have found a bunch of highly atmospheric music that's been recreated from fragments left to us. That means you'll get to play the game whilst listening to authentic Ancient Greek music. I'm mixing this up with other suitable music too. So it won't be the funky approach I used in The Rise & Fall of The Mughals, but it will still be dramatic, atmospheric, evocative and immersive.

 

[Takhisis]

Dammit, now my CD drive is working again I just can't help having to download the latest version!

 

[7ronin]

Right, so here's on update on the update that's coming: ...

Bravo, Maestro.

 

[geminisama]

The new update sounds exciting!

 

[Vuldacon]

Yes indeed... the Update is going to be Spectacular

 

[Takhisis]

A copy and paste from my notepad log:

Science Advisor: Roman Era, inexistent tech: Engineering

Intro Screen. Hitties

"Logchoforos" will no enter into mountains. Hmm.

'Korynthos' in the civilopedia but 'Korinthos' as a city name?

Why is 'Herald's name in English and not in Greek?

I'm scalping people at trade, is it supposed to work that way? I've got 105 gold and two techs in exchange for Domestication from two Argos and Athinai (I got Trade from Argos and sold it to the Spartans for Wrestling and another 35 Talents)

Where are all the DESC_PRTO entries?
Same for buildings

Government descriptions could be more... in character, you know. Tyranny even talks about 'Despotic' instead of 'Tyrannic' governments.



Aetolians
Aiolians
Ambraciotes
Argeads (slightly) ring around + magenta???
Argives, same
The Athenian owl has magenta smudges
Attic Tribes= pixellated AND magenta smudges
Boeotians,s ame
Corinthians, Over 9000
Delian Tribute AAAUUGGHH
Dioscuri Cult lolwut? magenta smudges again
Epirotes, magenta background and white smudges ????
Euboians, magenta smudges
Grain Tax is also fudged up.
Illyrians, magenta background
Islanders, magenta backgrounds and magenta person on dolphin
Kretans, magenta background
Larissans, magenta smudges and magenta horsehead.
Lydians, magenta again
Macedonians again
Messenians resource, civilopedia large image is fudged up.
Pythia, magenta background
Saltpeter WTH?
Samians magenta smudges and spots
Spartiates, pink smudges
Thassians, part of the gold is magenta
Thebans: magenta background
Thessalians, same
Thracians magenta smudges
Troezens, mag. spots here and there.​

You really have some pallette issues with all the faction resources. One or two typos, nothing to worry about, you do have an invalid entry in the Roman Era tech advisor.

 

[Vuldacon]

Takhisis... Most of the things you are pointing out have already been corrected.

The Engineering tech issue is corrected.

I corrected All the magenta issues for ALL pcx files in the game as well as remade All resources and adjusted or Remade all Civilopedia images to just state the least.

This game is a worthy endeavor to present a Greek Scenario which should have been done long ago. In Fact I find it difficult to believe that no one has really attempted it in all the years I have been here. Hats off to Rambuchan for his efforts.

The probably reason a Greek scenario has not been done is due to the difficulties involved to make it.

The Graphic Details have been addressed and the game is being scrutinized to perfect and enhance it in all ways.

Do you understand XML or how to manage the "RAD Tools", Bink Software? I do not have the time to delve into them and need someone who already knows how in conjunction with the CIV III Game... Specifically concerning the Spaceship Victory Movie.

 

[Apollo12]

I wouldn't say much could be improved upon

 

[Takhisis]

Takhisis... Most of the things you are pointing out have already been corrected.

The Engineering tech issue is corrected.

I corrected All the magenta issues for ALL pcx files in the game as well as remade All resources and adjusted or Remade all Civilopedia images to just state the least.

This game is a worthy endeavor to present a Greek Scenario which should have been done long ago. In Fact I find it difficult to believe that no one has really attempted it in all the years I have been here. Hats off to Rambuchan for his efforts.

The probably reason a Greek scenario has not been done is due to the difficulties involved to make it.

The Graphic Details have been addressed and the game is being scrutinized to perfect and enhance it in all ways.

Ah, I downloaded 1.3 recently and just started logging down everything I saw. Meticulously, like when you told me to stop in the EFZI testing I didn't know about behind-the-scenes work. Should I go for typos and such? I'll leave the magenta aside then.

Do you understand XML or how to manage the "RAD Tools", Bink Software? I do not have the time to delve into them and need someone who already knows how in conjunction with the CIV III Game... Specifically concerning the Spaceship Victory Movie.

Unfortunately not. and university leaves me with little time to learn it. Unless I sacrifice my social life, which continues to resist no matter what I do to it.

 

[jlvfr]

Hia folks


I have only now found this expansion (silly me) and have been playing for 90mn straight. Awesomely done, very good map of the ancient greek world.

But I'm facing a problem: despite having harbours everywhere, my island cities can't reach the mainland, and vice-versa, with the needed reources. What am I missing?

 

[Takhisis]

Trade Ports. I think. I've just begun exapnding overseas myself (Athinai) and the only colony I have so far is on Euboia.

 

[jlvfr]

Trade Ports. I think. I've just begun exapnding overseas myself (Athinai) and the only colony I have so far is on Euboia.

OooO! Found them, thanks

 

[Takhisis]

Yep, I checked in the editor. The Harbour just gives you increased food in water and veteran units. Requires the 'Islanders' resource and enables air travel, your capital is always connected to this trade network even if it's an inland city.

You also need Sailing to enable sea trade. and you need the Episema tech to enable the islanders resource.

P.S. not all islands have an Islanders resource so eb careful which cities you choose to be your important ones, you might have to ferry EVERYTHING to an isolated city.

 

[jlvfr]

P.S. not all islands have an Islanders resource so eb careful which cities you choose to be your important ones, you might have to ferry EVERYTHING to an isolated city.

Yeah am cool so far. Both my island conquest were forced by lack of landbased resources (horses and prophets), but both have islanders

This is a really good expansion!

 

[Takhisis]

Yes, I can't bring my Horses from my Euboian territories unless I send a couple workers over to build a road and a colony (and then defend the whole lot from barbarians and Euboians).

It's not an expansion, it's a scenario, man. Conquests is an expansion.

 

[jlvfr]

Yes, I can't bring my Horses from my Euboian territories unless I send a couple workers over to build a road and a colony (and then defend the whole lot from barbarians and Euboians).

It's not an expansion, it's a scenario, man. Conquests is an expansion.

Nah, this (and others similar in size) is way too big for that. Merits the term Expansion.

 

[Vuldacon]

Regardless of the size, it is indeed still a Scenario but feel free to think of it any way you like

by the way... I figured out the RAD Tools and.bik movie situation I mentioned in my above post.

The Game is progressing very well and I am sure Rambuchan will fill you in soon.. in the mean time, don't let the magenta problems on many pcx files bother you. I personally believe you will like the Update that is being worked on.

 

[Rambuchan]

How about we call it an expansive scenario?

Anyway, sorry for the delay in getting back to posts. For some reason, I don't get email alerts for this thread and I've been really stacked with work and family lately. All my free time - and that isn't much just lately - is going on making all the changes for the upgrade and writing all those pedia entries which need to be written.

Now, by way of response:

---

Takhisis - Thank you for the meticulous attention with your feedback. Keep it coming. And thanks also for helping out jlvfr in my absence. To get back to your comments:

- Palette Issues: As Vuldacon has said, the palette issues are all fixed now and the upgrade will have none of these. In fact, they will all shine and gleam and glow with rich colour. And the improvements to the graphics go way way WAAAAY beyond just palette fixes...

- "Science Advisor: Roman Era, inexistent tech: Engineering" This has been properly removed now too.

- "Logchoforos" will no enter into mountains: Yes, and neither will a big bunch of other units. The Civilopedia tells you about these. In general, it is mostly the Greeks who have the units that don't enter mountains, with the notable exceptions being the archer types of units. On the flipside, the Illyrians, Thracians, Cheronesos and Bithynia have many units that move fast over hills and will enter into mountains. It's because they are mountain dwelling barbarian types you see.

- 'Korynthos' in the civilopedia but 'Korinthos' as a city name? - OK thanks for spotting that.

- Why is 'Herald's name in English and not in Greek? - I have mentioned already that there are some inconsistencies with the language. It has pretty much been agreed already, further back in the thread, that it's good to have a balance of English and Greek. If it were all in Greek then things would get too difficult to understand. If it were all in English there wouldn't be enough cultural flavour. So you get a mix and a balance. The Greeks were big on happy mediums and considered extremism an unwise policy.

- I'm scalping people at trade, is it supposed to work that way? - Yes. As you've no doubt discovered by now, this situation doesn't go on for long. Also, if you read the opening screen (or scenario info page) giving background about the collapse of most things in the Mediterranean world, then you will have learned how the scenario opens in something of a 'Dark Age'. All those techs you're trading with ease are things people used to know before the collapse. They were not lost altogether though. People did remember them and re-establishing the recently lost trade networks soon brings back this knowledge. That's the idea anyway!

- Where are all the DESC_PRTO entries? - I know! So slack of me! But seriously, I have written quite a few already for v1.3 which you are playing and they are in character. Check out the DESC_ entries for The Makedonian Skirmisher or Katapeltikon, for example. I am writing and have written more already. But I can't promise I will have one for every unit or building. There are just too many. I aim offer a good sprinkling of them to give some flavour, character, info and humour.

- Government descriptions could be more... in character, you know. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Dioscuri Cult lolwut? - Just one of many religious cults of the time.

- Saltpeter WTH? - So eloquently put. If you know the recipe of Greek Fire then do please share it with the world. Everyone's dying to know what it was. Saltpeter aka Sodium Nitrate (not Potassium Nitrate btw) is probably the most likely key ingredient, so I went with that.

- Typos - Sure. There are bound to be some. Please let me know those you spot and I will fix them.

---

jlvfr - You've been correctly informed about how to conduct sea trade. Harbours are still useful, but it's the Trade Ports you need to build. There are historical and gameplay reasons for this approach, which are dealt with further back in the thread. In short: Not all islands were important, rich or happy places during the time period and sea (rather than air) trade on this size map made things slow down a lot in the late game.

So, yes, you'll have to pay close attention to which islands you go for and what you plan to build on them. And - perhaps more importantly - how you might deny other civs from accessing these islands. Athens in particular can make potent use of those islands with resources like Islanders, Delian Tribute and so on. But there are others out there too. Check out the pedia entries for all four of The Leagues to find out more.

---

Apollo12 - Very kind of you. But there is a whole lot that has and is being improved. I've mentioned many that will be coming in post #182.

 

[T-mun]

- "Logchoforos" will no enter into mountains: Yes, and neither will a big bunch of other units. The Civilopedia tells you about these. In general, it is mostly the Greeks who have the units that don't enter mountains, with the notable exceptions being the archer types of units. On the flipside, the Illyrians, Thracians, Cheronesos and Bithynia have many units that move fast over hills and will enter into mountains. It's because they are mountain dwelling barbarian types you see.

Rambuchan, I think it is Lonchophoros and not Logchoforos. In fact I'm pretty sure it is
"-phoros" means "holder", not sure about "Loncho". Probably his shield, like in Thyreophoros (pronounced Thureophoros), a skirmisher holding a thyreos, a small shield.

BTW the site I pointed you to is awesome