Hellenistic Fusion too overpowered?

[BenSisko]

I've been playing a game with Alex, and i think that Macedon Unique Ability is way too overpowered. I mean, you get one to four research boosts everytime you capture a city. Capturing capitals and big cities is specially desirable as the IA usually builds every district posible in them..

I already conquered half the world, didn't bother too much with science and culture districts, and still managed to get way ahead of every other civ in both the science and culture trees (King difficulty).

What do you think? Is it really too Op? Maybe a fix can be changing the ability to grant only one random boost from the available ones in each captured city.

 

[gunnerxtr]

Yeah.. haven't played with them yet, but 4 boosts seems crazy!

 

[Kyro]

My thoughts on Alexander and Cyrus.

"Warmongering is overpowered? Let's buff it even more!"

The ability to take cities and their districts and getting boosts on top of it is just ridiculous if you ask me.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I haven't tried it yet. How is it in the hands of the AI? It might be that powerful to keep AI Alex from falling behind in techs and civics.

 

[Kyro]

I haven't tried it yet. How is it in the hands of the AI? It might be that powerful to keep AI Alex from falling behind in techs and civics.

There's no way conquering cities and their districts puts you behind in any way, in fact getting those districts through conquest actually puts you ahead of someone else who's just building it. Alex just gets even more on top of that.

 

[PYITE]

It's not just the free eurekas and inspirations from conquest. That by itself isn't OP. It's the combination of all their uniques working in perfect synergy. You also get significant science from the barracks replacement. You get to build units and get more science in return then a campus district would give. Two good early units, especially the horseman replacement wich is heavy cavalry, so you can keep things rolling by upgrading to knights. Zero war weariness completes the unstoppable war machine that is Macedon. Oh yah, and a global healing cherry on top.

 

[DWilson]

I hope the inevitable nerf hammer doesn't crush them too hard, powerful abilities for some civs are fun for gameplay (people loved Poland, Babylon, and Korea). Hope the immortals get a small buff (ranged attack strength is too low imo)

 

[Esperr]

Its nice having broken civs around. People just ban them in MP anyway, I don't like the idea of just nerfing OP civs all the time when you can just not play them in SP.

 

[DeutschDachs]

My thoughts on Alexander and Cyrus.

"Warmongering is overpowered? Let's buff it even more!"

The ability to take cities and their districts and getting boosts on top of it is just ridiculous of you ask me.

True, if this were Civilization V, where capturing cities gave you all sorts of negative modifiers, all the extra bonuses would make more sense. Both are very snowbally

 

[nzcamel]

Its nice having broken civs around. People just ban them in MP anyway, I don't like the idea of just nerfing OP civs all the time when you can just not play them in SP.

Were there an option to select random opponents except "X", then you'd be right. But there's not. If any Civ is especially OP they do have to amend it as most SP's get their opponents on random.

I would like to see that option introduced into the game both for the civ we play and the civs we play against.

 

[Felis Renidens]

You can disable DLCs usually, but you'll also lose Persia and some wonders in this case. It also won't work for civs in the base game.

 

[Cliomancer]

So... Is Hellenistic Fusion just a cheap ability to make weak civs stronger?

 

[Kyro]

So... Is Hellenistic Fusion just a cheap ability to make weak civs stronger?

On the contrary it makes a Civlization well purposed for the most overpowered strategy in Civ 6 even more overpowering.

 

[MadDjinn]

By focusing heavily on military production, you lose out on GPs and can ignore the civilian stuff wrt eurekas and inspirations and therefore can keep up with less. Early game, you may not even expand to get that ball rolling.

Plus no one likes you.

It's a hyper focused civ, but by no means dangerous as an opponent in mp, or sp. don't give Alex cities and all he has left is a science boost for making units.

If and/or when the ai gets better at defending itself, the snowball will melt without a nerf bat.

Edit: and on King the human is the op thing.

 

[Scaramanga]

I think the biggest drawback is everyone will hate you. Which is why Alexander's AI will like you if you fight amongst yourselves and not against him, doing him a favour.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

Alex should be a very focused and OP war-monger. That's exactly who he was in history. Having said that I agree with Mad Djinn.

 

[Kyro]

So what if everyone hates you there's no penalty for that. Their good opinion of you is nice but not important for victory at all.

 

[Uncle_Joe]

Alex is first 'runaway Civ' I've seen so far in Civ6 (King and Emperor level games). In my current King game, he's pretty much head and shoulders about everyone else in tech, military, score, culture, etc. His empire is just huge. I'm about to go on a conquest path myself to keep up but I was trying to play a relatively peaceful game.

 

[isau]

The ability seems to be based on Assyria's Civ 5 ability. It might benefit from some additional restrictions. Assyria's limitation was that the rival civ had to actually have the tech before you could steal it.

An easier to to implement restriction might be to give Alex a penalty to Eureka/Inspiration amounts. So, he's really good at getting Eurekas, but Eurekas give a lowered benefit. This is probably how I will mod him if Firaxis doesn't make other changes first.

 

[MadDjinn]

An easier to to implement restriction might be to give Alex a penalty to Eureka/Inspiration amounts. So, he's really good at getting Eurekas, but Eurekas give a lowered benefit. This is probably how I will mod him if Firaxis doesn't make other changes first.

I've looked into the eureka system since launch and really want to give that mechanic more depth, but unfortunately the eureka system is not capable of it yet. At most you can do a global adjustment, similar to China, but you can't differentiate between Alex gains eureka normally and Alex gains eureka from conquest. Else I'd be doing more with great scientist eurekas vs spy eurekas, etc.

Maybe in the future.