help a gal learn how to dominate

[TheDS]

Some may wonder why Liz and not someone who peaks earlier? Simple: it takes that long to get your economy up to a size sufficient to go out and conquer the whole world. You're not going to stop doing everything else, because that would let others regain parity with you. No, you're going to devote a lot of your production to Redcoats, but enough to tech to keep you ahead, and you'll probably get Infantry and Combustion before you're done killing everyone, because once they see you've got Rifles, they start beelining for them and Grenadiers too. Infantry trumps that, but since you beelined, you'll have some filling in to do.

I've used this general strategy twice now and cleaned up faster than ever both times.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Liz is great because she is flexible and can go for any win type. I also like Ragnar on a continents or archipelago map for a bit of domination, his boats are great with the trading post (+1 movement, +1 again when you inevitably win the circumnavigation race) and berserkers can be upgraded to grenadiers (with CRIII and amphibious), and the AI loves its rifles.

At higher levels and especially at slower speeds, you can't do better than Huayna Capac when the AI starts off with archers (I think monarch or above, maybe prince though). The AI hardly ever builds warriors. My last game with Capac I moved my settler until I found a plains hill with marble (3 production), worked a forested plains hill (my capital didn't grow), and just produced Quechua (no barracks, they don't need it). I had destroyed 5 AIs by 2000BC. As long as your economy doesn't tank by overexpansion you can win easily from there on. I moved my capital to the best one the AI had to offer.

 

[madscientist]

No problems with Liz, BUT.....

If you want to learn to be a war-monger and win via domination she's not the best. Best is an agressive leader, second best is charismatic. Just my opinion.

 

[kcmarkwell]

War Chariots with Ramsees (sp?) or Immortals with Darius. Go with Darius and build 40 or so immortals. You can pretty much kill everyone most of the time before they get pikes online.

 

[manu-fan]

Is it just Murphy's Law that:

When I use a leader that has a Horse UU, I cannot for the life of me find any horses near my starting position. But, starting other leaders, I get horses in my Capital's FC!!!

Cheers.

 

[Kerrymdb]

Thank you to everyone who's replied so far! I think I'm ready to get this game under way.

It's a custom game, simply because I really like the 'choose religion' option. Also... *takes deep breath, prepares self for ridicule* I always play with 'no barbarians.' Because as I said in a previous post, I hate losing units. But, not this time! Because my warriors need to hone their skill and what better than uncivilized barbarians to practice on?

There were a lot of suggestions about who to use as a leader. I finally settled on Boudica. Rome was my second choice, but I promised myself I would stay away from an Industrial leader (because my tendency to build every wonder I can get my hands on) and I really don't like the Imperialist trait. The aggressive trait seemed ideal since it's one I rarely use.

Here is the start. I've already settled down roots. I've seen pages and pages of discussions about where to start, and while they can be amusing, that's not the purpose of this post. The purpose is to learn domination! So Warrior Queen Boudica dominately settled her first city.

So where to begin? Currently Bibracte is building a worker, but I saved at turn zero so that can be changed easily. My normal order of things would be worker / settler / Stonehenge. But then again, I've never had to worry about escorting settlers, since I always played with no barbarians. Would worker / warrior / settler / warrior be a good start?

What about tech path? I was thinking wheel / hunting / AH / mining / BW. Or should I beeline bronze working?

Any and all suggestions and comments are welcome!

And I'm more than happy to post the save if anyone is interested in playing a shadow game. Assuming someone is nice enough to tell me how... I should probably demand someone to tell me how, shouldn't I? It'd be more dominating that way...

 

[Validator]

Your starting position is a bit low in food, but it does have some decent early production, so it should be ok.

If you start with a worker what will it be able to work on? You have Hunting as a starting tech, which would allow building of an ivory camp, but that's it. You could research Agriculture while building the worker and then farm the FP, but that's it. The wheel lets you build roads, but they're not really a high priority since they don't really help you get a good start.

I think I would build a warrior or second scout and then a worker while researching Mining->BW. The worker can then chop forests to help speed things up while you're waiting for other techs. Plus you'll find out early if you have copper nearby.

After BW you can continue to Agr. and AH and then the Wheel.

Building a settler without having escorts is a bit of a risk when barbs are not off. My guess is that most of the people who do it will just restart if their settler is killed by animals.

 

[CivCorpse]

Forget about troops....build shiny wonders. Lots of them.

 

[bestbrian]

Research mining-bw and hold off on the worker; nothing for him to do yet. Barbs won't be appearing yet, so crank a barracks out so you can begin producing experienced units.

 

[Killroyan]

Hmmm, mining-BW in a food low city? I would prefer Agri-AH-mining-BW. The floodplain needs to be farmed with so little food. The cows are needed to and deliver the so needed food and hammers. Then start building mines because you can't even work them otherwise. I would start a scout too first, let the city grow to size 2 and then start a worker. It is a good thing you did not get the tribal village with the scouts since the city has even better odds at getting the good stuff when the border pops (last night I got 2 techs with the border pop ).

 

[Fraulzar]

I agree with Killroyan as far as your early tech priorities. You want to tailor your early research to enable you to improve whatever your 1st city includes, in this case a flood plain and a cow!

With this being a domination game, I'd build a 2nd scout first. Send your starting scout east and your second one west and learn who your enemies are and where they are located. BW will research soon enough and you will know where copper can be found. Found your 2nd city there and build up early troop types appropriate to take down your victim of choice.

The closer your 2nd city is to your intended victim, the better off you will be. In early wars a single unit can make the difference between success and failure, so you don't want to waste valuable turns in transit. Try to judge how many units you will need for a specific military goal and get them in the field as quickly as possible. If you make every effort to achieve this as quickly as possible, you'll often be sending axemen vs warriors = a sure win.

An early knockout blow sets the stage for a good domination win. Take your neighbors land, make it your own and you'll be well on your way.

If you really want to break your builder tendency, shatter it from the start! Don't get trapped into thinking "I'll just build up for awhile and then I'll be ready to fight!" No! If you allow yourself to give in to that there is always "one more building" and you'll end up dilly-dallying away valuable turns you could have devoted to conquering. Take it from someone who has had to break his own builderish leanings!

 

[Pe Ell]

I agree with killroyan as well on the tech path. My first thought when I saw the lack of food was to farm that floodplain. I would build a worker while researching Agri-AH then farm that floodplain and improve the cow. Let your city grow building a second scout and a barrack while you tech mining-bw-wheel. Build a settler when you hit size 4 and use it to claim whatever strategic resource that is nearby, preferably copper but horses for chariots are ok too. Just make sure the second city gets some food. After that I'd leave it too what the scout discovers.

 

[vicawoo]

If you're rushing, that is, maximizing production, worker first. Wasted turns? Normal speed, 15 turns to build worker, 1 turn to move to forest, 4 to build camp, 1 to move back on forest, that's 21 turns. Bronze working is 23ish on some difficulty. If you're rushing, 1 scout can easily find nearby bronze and nearby opponents. Also, you probably want two workers first to chop rush axes.

Scout first has advantages because you're in the middle of some land, so there's more to explore, and you're on noble, so decent tech hut pop %.

For a slower build, you could go animal husbandry first, probably better suited for wonders. Scout to growth, worker, fix up cows and elephants.

 

[CivMcNut]

I think you're on the right track with your own suggestions. It looks like you won't have to research hunting. It appears from the screen that Boudica starts with it. You already have a scout and hunting is not among the choices with the little pictures there.

Having BW and AH quick will help you twofold on getting rolling. With so many trees in the Big Fat Cross of your capital, I would have to think that getting BW would be the higher priority. The quicker you get it the better your chances of getting some copper (and axemen) are. You can get started that much sooner with chops that will speed your settler making along. One thing I've noticed about BTS is, copper isn't as widespread as it was in Vanilla, so you might have to wait for iron working to reveal something.

Good choice on Boudica, my first game on BTS was with her, and I won a domination victory where the tech leader in the game agreed to become my vassal without my firing a shot at him.

I like the build order of worker/warrior/settler, that's how I start the majority of my games too, seems to work well in most situations. When I'm in doubt of what to build my main military unit for that era is usually what I make myself go for, it's always nice to have another (warrior,axeman,maceman, whatever) around

 

[madscientist]

Kerry,
Lady Boudica huh! Shoudl be fun.

Some comments about Boudica and the start in general

1) We all love to rush out and fight with the lady, but she was very week starting techs and here traits are no economical help. I rather tough leader to start with. After many attempts with her I think the best thing is to go after an early religion, and target a great prophet for the shrine. Work the floodplain and after the population hit's 2 work the wine tile.
2) Starting build order. Scout/warrior/Worker
3) After teching polytheism I would go agriculture (farm the floodplains for now)/archery/AH/wheel/mining/BW. Do not start with the wheel, if you do not want the early religion (I suggest you take it) then tech AH for the cows.
4) You cities can grow fairly large quickly. Boudica is charismatic, a monument, ivory, religion. That's 9 happy faces with only 1 building!!!!
5) Barbarians are not much of a problem. Get archery sooner than later as copper and horse take a while to hookup.
6) One final thing about an early religion, you can use it to get friends. Being a war-monger lady does not mean you do not need friends! Diplomacy is just as important, you just a slightly different way to handle the miscreants!

Enjoy

 

[phurph]

1) Agr-> AH -> Mining -> BW?
or
2) Mining -> BW -> Agr -> AH?

I usually go the first route, but then kick myself later when I see BW has 15-20 turns left and I can't chop/rush workers and settlers. Like Validator said, you can use the forests to get another worker and speed up all the improvements. Both will work fine, but having the option to chop early here is NICE.

 

[cabert]

Agr>AH is the way to go.Boudica is not only agressive, she's also charismatic, and can make good use of chariots and such things.

 

[Xurr]

I see a lot of good suggestions for what civs to choose and how to build units in this thread. however I don't think any of it really addresses the root of the OPs issue. She stated that she "looses a bunch of units and gets frustrated". That tells me its a tactics issue.

That said there are a number of things you can do to minimize your losses and maximize your enemies losses. First and fore most are siege weapons. They are your disposable unit that will damage multiple enemy units and knock down walls thus allowing your own less disposable units to win with fewer losses and gain experience.

Remember that civ has a rock-paper-scissors method for unit balance. So some units will be much better at killing certain types of units than others. Here is a guide that will help you determine what to use against what.
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/militaryunits.php

 

[Daedal]

You could beeline to BW first while building a worker, chop a settler to plop near copper, and rush a nearby target. Or you could get Agr and AH first, REX peacefully for a bit, then unleash berserker fury on the world later on. How early do you want to become aggressive? You don't necessarily need to rush anyone to play a warmonger game.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Slavery and whipping are good tools for early warmongering.

Only bad advice in this topic.

Hell, change "early warmongering" to "anything at all" and it's still bad.