Help me ascend to Monarch or higher

[Arcanior]

Hi everybody,

After years of playing Civ III and IV, consistently winning on Monarch on the former and Prince on the latter, I've decided to ask you guys for help in my Civ IV strategy. I've been reading the articles on these forums for some time, but only made an account now to actually post. As I understand it, the way this thing is usually done is by starting a game together. I've generated a Fractal Map on Monarch with Elizabeth - she's Philosophical and Financial, both strong traits.

I'm also using the BUG mod, as you can see in the screenshot. No gameplay-altering mods, though.
This is my start:

My thoughts: There's probably forest to our west, so moving the Warrior SW might not be a good move. I'd move the Warrior SE to reveal floodplains and who knows what else. Hopefully there's still a food resource in there; if not, we'll have to get chopping very quickly for farmland.

Depending on the Warrior reveal, I'd either settle in place or move toward a food resource (E or SE). As a starting tech I'd either go for Agriculture (depending on food resource and amount of flood plains) or Hunting (for Ivory and, depending on food resource, maybe Animal Husbandry). I'd also probably go with Bronze Working very soon, for chopping, Slavery (although we might not do too much of that if the start is food-poor), and maybe a copper reveal in the grassland W and SW.

Thoughts?

 

[Pedro78]

I'd move warrior 1SE and SIP if he doesen't reveal anything really juicy. Moving warrior 1SW would only reveal you forest tiles. There's probably a food resource 1N2W or 1S2E of your settler.

The best advice I'd have for a Monarch player is to read these guides :

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-2-case-studies-city-placement.546356/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-3-city-specialization-explained.547564/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-4-hybrid-economy.548667/

Most of the guides in the War Academy are outdated and won't help you to play on a high difficulty, these are much more recent and very detailed. Also, watching let's plays on YouTube will help you understand many things (Chris67132, Lain Civ 4 Deity, Imploading...)

 

[Arcanior]

Moving the Warrior 1SE revealed mostly desert to the east, so I SIP, so as to have the floodplains at least and whatever lies to the West. Too bad:

There's Rice 2S1W, but I miss out on the cows 2N2W. In hindsight, maybe settling 1W would have been a superior position... Oh well, we'll make do. I've started a Worker and Agriculture now, and am working a forest tile for the time being, since 3 is the best I'll get for my worker right now anyway.

Now, there's two decisions to be made. I see there's coast ot the south, so I definitely want to check that out with the Warrior, and then loop back around to the west. Once I finish Agriculture, I'm having a hard time deciding between Bronze Working and Hunting. Hunting nets me the Ivory tile, but it's a 1 tile, and seeing as how we're in a food-poor position anyhow, it might be preferable to chop wood first for farming... On the other hand, I have the rice for 5 and the floodplain for 3 1 .

What do you guys think? Hunting or Bronze Working?

 

[Major Tom]

Yes, warrior on hill 1SE. Many juicy rivertiles. Inclined to settle inside riverbend. Access to elephants handy a little later. BW for chopping and slavery plus locating the metal, yes.

 

[MeowZeDung]

The articles that Pedro78 linked are definitely worth reading, and the let's plays are high quality as well. I can not overstate how much I learned from watching AbsoluteZero's (Chris67132 on youtube) CivIV LPs, and there are a ton of them on Immortal and Deity. He doesn't play super fast either, so his videos are ideal for watching and really thinking about what he's doing at the same time. TheMeInTeam also made some good LP's you should consider watching, though not as many and he plays much faster. In fact, he literally wrote the definitive guide for playing faster!

If you'd like some slightly more condensed advice to go along with long articles and LP's, the following tidbits do make a huge difference:

• Workers are the most important unit in the game, and worker moves/actions in the first 100 turns are some of the most valuable resources in CivIV. Make sure you have a plan for what each of your workers is going to do next and that it is essential or highly beneficial to your empire. For example, don't mine a third and fourth hill in the capital when there's a happiness resource that needs hooked up near your second or third city.
• On a related note, a good rule of thumb is that you should have ~1.5 workers per city in your empire. This varies based on the strategy you are using and the land available, but again, it is a rule of thumb and a Monarch-Emperor player does well to stick to it.
• Food is king! You should generally settle your second and third cities so that a strong food resource is adjacent to the city tile. Exceptions include Creative leaders and situations where you have to grab a strategic resource for barb defense or an early rush. Reading up on Civ Illustrated #2 that Pedro78 linked to will help you enormously with this.
• There are a ton of "gambits" that are very powerful in CivIV, such as grabbing certain techs with the Oracle, building the GLH with an empire of 4-5 coastal cities, GP bulbing key techs, etc. However, while you are developing as a player at lower-mid difficulties, it is best to ignore these and focus on fundamentals. Play forum games and focus on peacefully expanding to an empire of 6-7 cities with a strong economy. You DO NOT need to finish every game you start (this took me a while to accept personally). One of the best things you can do while working your way up through difficulties is playing a lot of games up to T100, stopping, and improving your performance in the next game with what you learned. In forum games like the Noble's Club series, there is nothing wrong with making multiple attempts at the same map with advice from other players.
• Slavery is the best civic in the game. Learn about the most effective ways to whip and take advantage of hammer overflow. The "short" version is that, on normal speed, whipping 1 citizen is worth 30 hammers, 2 are worth 60, 3 are worth 90, and so on. So to maximize the number of hammers you get from sacrificing population, produce a unit or building until it requires ~31 more hammers to be completed. Since one citizen being sacrificed for 30 hammers will not be enough to finish the production, 2 citizens will be sacrificed when you hurry production for a total of 60 hammers. 31 of those hammers will go towards finishing production, and the additional 29 + your base production will carry over to the next turn as overflow. Multipliers from civics, buildings, resources, and traits also get applied, so keep that in mind when planning! Ultimately, this process is a complex way of converting food into hammers (remember, food is king!) and it is one of the single most powerful things you can do in CivIV.

This ended up being much longer than I intended! Some of it you may already know from your time lurking the forums, but I hope it is helpful and not overwhelming. Don't feel like you need to digest information from these resources all at once, just glean what you can a little at a time, play a game to T100 and review. Then repeat the process over and over again and I guarantee you will improve, and quickly!

 

[Pedro78]

In hindsight, maybe settling 1W would have been a superior position...

You couldn't have known about the cows, so SIP was the right decision. Plus I wouldn't move off fresh water + lose several grassland river tiles for some cows. Here I would definitely go BW first after Agriculture. Chopping early is more important than the elephants. Then either Wheel-Pottery or Hunting - AH (depends on your second city spot). A good thing to do is to unselect research in the first 5 turns : the beakers are not lost, and you get a 5% research bonus towards the tech you're researching for every AI met that already knows the tech. Thus all the beakers accumulated from the first 5 turns will be multiplied if you meet an AI before 3800BC. After T5 the computer will select a tech automatically.

 

[dutchfire]

Turn on tile yields and resource bubbles in all screenshots

Cows will be nice for a later city.
With a financial leader and this start, I think it makes sense to build a lot of cottages in the capital. You might want to use helper cities to let the cottages grow: settle your first (few) cities close to the capital so that they overlap and can work the capitals cottages. Then, later, when you have bureaucracy and a big capital, it can work villages instead of cottages and you get a lot more commerce.

Circle around a bit with your warrior to look for good future city sites.

I agree with Pedro that Bronze Working is a higher priority than hunting. The ivory is a pretty meh tile anyway. You probably want to chop those riverside forests first to make room for cottages.

 

[Arcanior]

I've played on a bit, to turn 15.

After 5 turns, London expands.

By now, I've found gold and wheat to the southeast, with more floodplains, but mostly plains otherwise. Northwest appears to have gold and marble, but again, plains. I start working the floodplain (which yields the same as the rice. Realizing this two turns later, I switch to the rice so I don't forget switching after the farm is up.)

On turn 7 I pop a hut (I know, I should probably play without huts and events... Didn't think of it when I started up the game), and I get Agriculture two turns early. I also had 59 from another hut when London expanded. I start Bronze Working.

On turn 15, my Worker finishes. I'll send him down to farm the rice first.

After 5 turns, he should be done and I get Bronze Working. If I do not get copper in my BFC, I'll chop the forest 1S of London. I started on a Warrior now, but I feel I should put the 20 from the chopped forest in a Settler, so I'll switch then.
When my Warrior finishes, should I use him to explore as well, or fortify him in London? My first Warrior will have to rest now, since he's just been attacked by a lion.

As for a second city, 3S2E looks appealing. 2 floodplains in the first ring, and gold and wheat in the BFC. Five riverland grass tiles, three of which are shared with London, and more floodplains to the south. Also two hills, one desert (with gold) and one grassland. If I go for this one, my next techs will be The Wheel-Pottery.

Alternatively, I'll scout out the northwest a bit more, because we have marble, gold and cows there, which is a nice combo. I'll have to know when BW finishes, though, because if I choose that spot, ideally I'll go Hunting - Animal Husbandry.

I haven't met any neighbours yet, but in turn 9 Buddhism was founded, with Hinduism following in turn 10.

I'll go to sleep now, since it's late here in Western Europe, but I'll see your updates tomorrow! Thanks already

 

[Anysense]

You couldn't have known about the cows, so SIP was the right decision. Plus I wouldn't move off fresh water + lose several grassland river tiles for some cows.

Still only an average bureau capital, so what is the point? At turn 0 there is nothing more important than short term benefit hence cows>>riverside, fresh water etc. But yes, he could not see cows so there was no reason for moving 1W.

 

[dutchfire]

3S2E looks nice, but it will only get its best tiles after a border pop. An alternative would be to go for 4S3E, and fill in 3S later. This gives wheat immediately. 3W2N also looks reasonable. That leaves room for a later city to capture the fish.

I would farm the flood plain before chopping the forest since you mostly want to grow on warriors right now.

Is the sea already visible to the north east?

 

[DrCron]

I would settle cities 2-3 between the gold and the food resource. NW city can also get the marble without a border pop, but that will only be useful after masonry anyway. Fish city can wait since it won't get food until the border pop.

Playing with Elizabeth and having marble, if 2 religions (at least) are founded in your continent you could get a very easy cultural victory (unless your closest neighbor is a warmonger).

I would recommend turning on the tile yields, not only for screenshots but as a general rule. You'll probably play better with them on (I know I do), and on higher difficulties you'll know where the enemy has iron before you get IW.

 

[lymond]

Cow/gold probalby first settle and you can just mine the gold and work that for now, since AH does not appear to be a priority. Actually, I think a city 1NW of gold to the E is fine..it's a pure helper city that can help both London and a city that I think should be placed next 1W of the wheat down there, which is a very nice city with all those FPs...a secondary commerce city.

London not great, but is fine for Bureau. However, wheat city to the S may be a better bureau cap...not certain yet. London will be limited on whipping, so use those forests for settlers/workers. Cottage the FP.

edit:
this map is:

Spoiler juicy :

juicy!

Oracled CS about 1000BC while harassing Izzy (she makes great worker farm) without mercy and expanding to 7 ciites initially. So much land to expand to and the land is quite nice, despite how mediocre London looked at first, although ok cottage city.

Settle order:

gold/cows (has corn too but that is good for gem city extraordinaire just north)
gold helper city due W
cow/copper to the south as I needed the copper..barbs can be an issue here. Corn/copper to the E would be fine to, but I liked cow/copper to help wheat city
Wheat city (could be bureau cap too)
Gembonanza
clam city

Izzy will go down soon to my Phants and stuff. 1AD and close to Education

nice map

with Izzy's cities one can easily expand to 20 plus cities uncontested

stole at least 10 workers from Izzy.. Warrior got XP twice from huts for W3

 

[Archon_Wing]

I think i'd go with 3s3e. Sure you lose the floodplain, but that city will go to work really fast without any need to build anything.

You also have 2 fabulous cities to the west too at your leisure, will be nice that your capital will inevitably pop the cow.

It depends on where they're coming from.

Edit: Probably should turn off huts/events. That causes too much variance which isn't conductive to learning.

 

[Arcanior]

I've played a bit further, until T29, when I discovered The Wheel.

Bronze Working meant a switch to Slavery, which has been performed. No copper revealed, though, which is a shame. Turn 22 gave me my first neighbour, though:

Isabella! This will hopefully mean an early religion for me. She'll also probably build the Mahabodhi relatively soon, which, when I eventually take it, will be a good source of . She should be somewhere to the north.

In the meantime, I chopped the forests S and E of the capital, since (as per lymond's advice) I intend to cottage the floodplain 2E, and so I have to wait for Pottery to work it, which is coming up in 6 turns. I put both chops into a Settler, switching back to my Warrior build every time right after.

London has grown to a population of 3, but I'm not sure what my 3rd tile should be. The default would be a riverside grassland, but should I whip it away, since it's unworked as of yet and doesn't really provide anything good? Then again, sending a Settler out now, before the new Warrior is finished, is risky...

Exploration, then. There has been very good news on both fronts concerning food resources. Here they are, NW and SE respectively (the Warrior is currently looping around the N towards the NE).

I already made dotmaps where I think I should probably place the new cities, partly on the advice in the above posts. The red city should be the last one, I think.

Some questions:
1) Should I move the yellow city 1S because of the cows?
2) Is the blue city really worth it? It can help London, but it's got no food resources and only two flood plains...
3) Am I right in thinking I should found the white city first? Now that I've found corn (albeit dry) just to the north, this seems like the most powerful spot yet.
4) What should my worker be doing now? The floodplains and grassland riverside tiles should be ripe for cottaging, but I only get Pottery in 6 turns. Do I chop inside the riverbend (1SE of London)? Alternatively, I can chop the Plains Hill 1N2E of London, for mining later on, but I'm not sure that's a good move. Thirdly, I could start on a road towards York to the NW, but again, that seems like a rather weak move.
5) What should the research path be after Pottery? I'm thinking now should more or less be the time to go for Hunting - AH, which might give us horses 1W or 1SW of London. Or should I get into Writing, to get Open Borders with Isabella ASAP for her to send a missionary? I could also go for Mysticism for a monument in York, and start beelining the Oracle via Meditation and Priesthood, but I'd also need Masonry for that. If I want to do that, should I do it now, or can I wait until after AH?

Post your thoughts and feel free to critique my play thus far!

 

[Pedro78]

@Anysense Not much short term benefit in a cows when you already have river rice : requires early AH, not much of a food tile anyways and you have plenty of hammers with BW. Plus it makes a nice spot for a second/third city. Being FIN, this is a decent bureau capital spot.

 

[lymond]

Generally I do not emphasize wonders much when learning, but Oracle is a good play here. I went for the CS sling, but Izzy is a big early Oracle threat so you could get CoL which is still very nice. I harassed izzy like no tomorrow, and should note that the first two huts popped Hunting and Masonry for me which is so wrong...ha (again, huts and events are not great for learning, and events you may find soon really suck donkey nuggets)

I know it goes against usual logic to settle as advised, but I suggest settling white city next 1S of your spot to get marble in play without border pop, but only if you go for Oracle. If not, settle as you would. But a third city can go 1S of gems to bring corn online and share between cities....although that city not urgent as you won't have IW for some time. (Plus this city's main early objective is working gold so food not that much of a priority..it can grow to Size two while working cow tile and improving gold..and still of some growth afterwards, albeit slow...but gold so important as a boost)

If Oracle play, then Masonry>Poly>PH>Writing..Oracle CoL

Yes, blue city is good.. It shares 5 or 6 cottageable tiles with London (and some flood plains to share with wheat city, so it can grown doing that and help the city..and it should get a granary. Definitely what I'd do on higher levels. On this level though you could settle wheat city first. Learning to settle cities like blue city and tile share bureau cap is the key to advanced play

Worker should move to chop 1NW of London and then start road to new city.

Red fish city is not urgent. It's a city you will always be able to settle at some point. After white, blue and yellow, you are really gonna want to find copper (and there is some around).

Scouting warrior(s) need to pull back and keep new city areas safe by spawnbusting the vicinity. Next warrior should probably move down SE somewhere. You will want more spawnbuster...barbs are going to be an issue later.

note: putting pics in spoiler tags helps with page loading

 

[Arcanior]

Let's say I go for CoL with the Oracle. I settle my second city 1S of the white city spot and use the cow for food; I presume I should prioritize AH over Masonry then? Or go for all the Oracle techs first, and AH afterwards?

 

[lymond]

AH is a distraction right now. Too expensive a tech for just one visible cow resource only. The gold tile is what you want to work as that will help you get Oracle. Tech Pottery now though. You could do AH instead of Pot, but I value the gran in London, and a cottage or two early.

 

[Pangaea]

Think I'd farm the capital floodplain to be honest. You don't have that much food, and it's nice to grow a little quicker and be able to whip a bit, at least early. After Pottery, it's often a good idea to go for Writing. Then open borders with Isabella, and once trade routes are established there is a good chance for religious spread. Too early for missionaries, but it'll spread anyway sooner or later.

Hope you put chops into a settler/worker. You can change builds around, so you can basically grow while chopping into settlers.

If you don't want to farm the floodplain and the worker therefore doesn't have all that much to do before Pottery is done, you can start to road towards city 2, so the cities get connected upon settling. That means two extra commerce from internal trade routes. The white spot makes most sense to me. Corn is dry, but still an excellent food source, and then there is the gold. Work those two at size 2, and the city is very productive right away. Yellow is a little more awkward in terms of inner ring tiles, so I'd settle that after white. Don't put it 1S for cow. Not worth it. Put another city south of it, which works the cow. From the screenshot it looks coastal, so maybe a city 1S of the mountain, or 1SE of it (river and freshwater).

Red is a fine enough spot, but needs a border expansion to do anything useful, so wait with that one.

At Monarch the AI isn't stupidly fast, so you can probably get Alpha after Writing (don't get AH yet), and then backfill techs from the AI. That way you can get the pre-requisites for Oracle for 'free'. Isabella is always an Oracle threat, but by having Alpha you'll know what techs she has, and if you lose the Oracle to her, you'll be well positioned for the long game anyway, with Alpha in hand, and many free techs early, like Ah, Sailing and the religious stuff. Later Monarchy. I often self-tech Math, because it takes a while for the AI to be willing to trade it (because it opens a wonder).

Blue may look like a dodgy city, but the main benefits is gold in inner ring, and it can help grow cottages for the capital. Wouldn't settle it now, but it might be an alternative as city 4 or something like that. Area NE looks green, though, so maybe go there instead, depending on what is located there. Helps to block off land too. Blue can always be backfilled.

Hunting and Ivory is nice for happiness, so make a judgement call on you need that sooner, if you happen to go for Writing->Alpha. Hunting is quick, so you can slip that in if required.

A general comment ahead of time: get into the habit of binary research, particularly in the early game. Too early for that to apply here, but once you settle a city or two and run out of gold, you can get into the habit of either having research on 100% or 0%. Build up enough gold to fully research a tech before running out. Gives you more wriggle room in terms of tech trading as well, and potential bonuses from other AIs having it.

 

[Arcanior]

Thanks for the advice, guys. This is where I am thus far.

I've founded York 1S of the white dot and mined the gold there. York is mostly working cows (unimproved) and gold. London builds more Warriors, a Settler, and sometime later, a second Worker. I use the whip liberally and keep London at about 3-5 pop.

Marble is connected and Nottingham founded on the blue spot, while cottages start appearing on London's eastern rivern grasslands and floodplain. Nottingham starts working some of those cottages, too. I build a Granary first in every new city; York's second build is a Monument.

My research path is Masonry > Mysticism > Polytheism > Priesthood > Writing > Alphabet. While I'm researching Mysticism, Isabella founds Judaism and adopts Organized Religion. I also meet Hannibal.

After researching Priesthood, I start building the Oracle in London. I barely use any hammers from tiles; most are from chopping/whipping. The Oracle is finished a short time after I finish Writing; the gold has increased my research speed tremendously.

Screenshots:

Spoiler screenshots :

Where do I expand next? My initial thought is the yellow city, or perhaps the green. Research-wise, I'll try to backfill as much as I can once I get Alphabet. I'll need to trade for Hunting and AH to be sure. I'm thinking of beelining Civil Service myself.

At this point I'm not sure if I should switch to Caste System or keep Slavery. I have a feeling Slavery is way to useful in whipping out Settlers, and Caste System is more of a mid-game civic, for when I'm done expanding.

Also: when do I build a Library in London? Do I build it between Settlers, and have other cities churn out Warriors for escort and spawnbusting?

I suppose I shouldn't convert to Confucianism either, but rather wait for Buddhism to spread. Then again, Hannibal doesn't have a religion yet, but I don't know where his lands are, so if I get there before Isabella...

Thoughts?