Help me with my dumb noob skills.

[Mithrik]

Hello, I am Mithrik, Noob on CivIII. I have Vanilla version, no expansions.

I made the thread to get a little help to jump off my newbie days on Chieftain to rookie on Regent.

First off, I never have know how to use the spies properly. I place agents on capitals to know their military, but that's it, not know how to make use of the other options. I would liek to know.

Second, I tend to be somewhat of an in-between of Builder and warmmonger, with more builder than warmonger. My problem is that I tend to have a weak offensive power, especially on the Ancient Age and early Industrial Age. I want to improve that.

And finally I need a tip to stop having a preference on Industrious civs. I do make workers to have 1 per city. But I have the tendency to use Industrious civs over the rest especially if I want to grow big. And that's a serious concern, one that I haven't defeated, made it to beat the scientific trait, only to use keep the Industrious.

The good news are that I don't use the Egiptians and Persians, I hate them, much, I prefer to not take when setting a game. Which I think is a huge step for a noob.

Any help you give me is OK, not neccessarily about the points above.

 

[vmxa]

Yes Ind is very strong in vanilla, it was toned down a bit inC3C. Just use random selection and try whatever you get.

Make no spears, only attackers till you are at war or face barb uprising.

Spies are best used to investigate a city. Either to know how many shields they have in a build or how many defenders for attacking. Can be used to steal maps or a tech. The rest are rare to use for me.

I have used sabatoge production on a key wonder, but it is expensive. In some Sid games I will steal plans. that is very expensive late in the game.

 

[Ataxerxes]

I seldom use spies. As a luxury I sometimes use them to see what sort of military my next enemy has.

What Vmxa said. Archers count more for military power than spears. I only use Spears if I'm Greek. It sounds like you're building too many buildings too early. Before building any building, ask yourself "Will this be more useful than another settler or military unit?"

If you're not Industrious, I'd make 1.5 workers per city so you don't work unimproved tiles. Industrious was easily the strongest trait in Vanilla. Still good in C3C but at least the others are comparable now.

Most of my game are about expansion. Peacefully first, then start in on whoever has resources I want.

 

[Skullsplitter]

Don't need spies for investigate city, do you? I'm almost sure an embassy is enough to enable that. I investigate towns mostly to see how far along they are on a wonder. Whether to try to build it myself or simply take it. I don't remember the last time I used a spy. Too expensive.

 

[Mithrik]

Spies: NOt useful what you guys told me, especially, the fact that I don't know how to make the spies do other thing than military survey.

Military:Archers... don't know why when I try to go warmonger on early Ancient and use 10 of does can't take a freaking city. Once I lost Vet Archer vs. Warrior. I try to get Iron to build swordman to get an advantage on offensive, but till then I use archers and defend with 1 spear per city. Should I modify to less spears than that? Cuz' I tend to play on roaming+ barbs.

Industrious: Yeah it's too overpowered, that's because I often take on the Americans as Ind Civ. Will try next time Random or no traits game. OK?

I am actually on a game with Babylon. Info:

Chieftain

About 16 cities
Monarchy
Early Middle Ages
Standard Map
8 Players, including me.
I think it's continents 80% Water or Archipielago.
Other known civs: Persia (a really powerless one only has 9 cities, two of which are far in middle of my territory, and will fall to my culture, on mid-Ancient Age and only one handful of iron)

About 2 turns before stopping there I appeared as the Most Powerful with reason. If I finish with over 700 points (the max. I have gotten is about 400) I start the jump to Warlord.

 

[Skullsplitter]

Oh, click on the "E" on the bottom right corner of the screen. Espionage. You have to have Writing researched, and an embassy in the target civ's capitol. Ctrl-E lets you build embassies as needed. Or is it Shift-E? I don't recall. Something like that. Anyway, then you get a popup to select the civ, then another for the action, and if its investigate town, another to choose which town.

 

[Raliuven]

Mithrik - I don't use archers much either. I go for swords or horses, though sometimes there is just no choice. If you had a stack of 10 archers going after one city on chieftain and lossing, there is something wrong. At best that city has 2, maybe 3 defenders. A quick list of what might be wrong:

1) You are attacking with archers (attack of a 2) against superior defenders. Pikes have a defense of a 3, but 10 archers should probably win against 2-3 pikes. Archers vs. musketman or higher = probable suicide.

2) Attacking cities means the defender is likely fortified -that a +25% defense. That spear with a defense of a 2 is actually a 2.5 defense.

3) You are attacking across a river - the AI actually does a good job of placing cities on rivers, so be careful. If you attack across a river, the defender receives a 50% bonus. That spear that is fortified across a river is now a 3.5 defense, better than a pike.

4) You are attacking a city on a hill. Hills give a defender a +50% defense (city or no city; mountains are +100% but you can't put a city on a mountain). So that spear that is fortified in a city on a hill across a river is now a 4.5 defense - better than a musketman.

5) You are attacking a city with a wall or a population of 7-12. Either of these give a +50% bonus. The spear that is fortified in such a city on a hill across a river is now a 5.5, almost as good as a rifleman.

Add these combinations and even a handful can spell an easy victory for a defending AI. Know your terrain or pay the consquences.

There is a 6) The RNG hates you (don't worry, it hates me too). In other words, it happens sometimes. But if it is happening a lot - look for a cause.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Don't need spies for investigate city, do you? I'm almost sure an embassy is enough to enable that. I investigate towns mostly to see how far along they are on a wonder. Whether to try to build it myself or simply take it. I don't remember the last time I used a spy. Too expensive.

If you're at war with the Civ in question, you can't use your embassy to Investigate a City, you need spies.

 

[Skullsplitter]

Oh, yeah, ChaosArbitor. I don't tend to stay at war long enough for it to matter. I've investigated them before declaring anyway, and its not going to change a whole lot in the meantime.

Its possible I might use a spy, then. Not that I have, but its not inconceivable.

 

[GamezRule]

If you are waiting only for spies to conquer you're neighborer, you are waiting to long.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

That's true; the most use out of Spies I've had is in AoI, thanks to getting them about 4 techs in (usually).

 

[dominatr]

If you want to have military power in the ancient age, i suggest playing a scientific civ so you begin with bronze working, then research Iron working right away. Swordsman work so well in the ancient age, and in regent, theres only a few spots during the game you can have a huge advantage, and its a lot easier to use the 3 attack Swordsman than the 2 attack archers.

Another spot is the Knights over the Pikeman, but you must act quick before they turn into muskets. The best one in my opinion is the cavalry over the muskets, kick ass.

For the early industrial age, cavalry against riflemen will not do. You need to hurry and get tanks before the AI gets infantry, and you will have some strong advantage.

Whenever i attack a decent AI, they bring all of their troops and try to stop my offensive. If you ahve a bigger, more productive empire, you just wait it out until they run out of units, the you can capture cities.

 

[Raliuven]

Cavalry will do okay vs. Rifles under certain conditions. This is really the same fight as between an archer and a spear, only the cavalry can retreat. So I don't see that as a huge difference. Watch your terrain and be careful. If you are cautious like me, bring along some cannons or arty if you have it and soften them up first.

I do not usually pit Cavalry against Infantry without softening them up - hopefullly redlining them. They can be murder, especially if they are in a size 7-12 city. This is about the same as pitting an archer vs. a pikeman (or archer vs. musketman). Expect some losses but hopefully some Cav will retreat. I usually protect my arty train with an army, but this can be very slow going.

Infantry come into the game too soon before tanks. It is not practical in many situations to wait for tanks to continue your conquests. Also, IMHO, it is also a good idea to start figuring out ways to destroy superior units with inferior units. At higher levels, you will not always be the tech leader. Sometimes quantity can replace quality. Even a wariror will win against a pike every so often. Put a bunch in a stack and that pike will be looking for someplace to hide. Messy, but it will get the job done.

 

[vmxa]

Don't need spies for investigate city, do you? I'm almost sure an embassy is enough to enable that. I investigate towns mostly to see how far along they are on a wonder. Whether to try to build it myself or simply take it. I don't remember the last time I used a spy. Too expensive.

Only works, if you are not at war. Same as stealing, you cannot steal without a spy, if at war.

 

[Mithrik]

Normally I am the first to reach the Infantry, then I turn to the tanks, but by the time I can research Motorized Transport the AI has more than 20 Infantry and that gets me .

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Tanks > Infantry; I just got Panzers and it's only due to them that the humble German Republic has been able to thwart the evil Fascist French who betrayed us (Panzers and dogpiling them with literally every other civ bar one, who's stuck on an island anyway).

 

[Raliuven]

Normally I am the first to reach the Infantry, then I turn to the tanks, but by the time I can research Motorized Transport the AI has more than 20 Infantry and that gets me .

I wouldn't blink at the thought of pitting a tank against infantry. This is like pitting a sword against a spear. Still watch the terrain, but those infantry should fall. If it is a really tough nut, you will either have the option of arty or bombers to soften up the defenders. Either that or send in a tank army to clean them out.

The question is, what are you doing with your cavalry while waiting for the tanks while the AI has rifles and is waiting for infantry? Do you just stop your offensive when they upgrade to rifles?

 

[Mithrik]

Normally I have a peaceful early industrial age, I try to take the most out of cavalry to invade, because by this time, the AI has some very big cities and 2 or 3 are on hills, and when I try to take an offensive with 15 cavalry against their rifles, I lose 10 have the rest damaged and a relined rifleman that was conscripted is what they have left the next turn arrive reinforcements, and that's when I get to start suicide tactics, because I get ass-kicked on the frontline, not to lose cities, but to lose units, and I am not playing with Conquests, so the best gov I can use for war is Monarchy and Commy at the mid-game or if I am over-extended.

I need to learn a lot of the uses of arty still I rarely have it on the offensive, most defend my core cities, and Bombers get late enough into the game to be useless at combined arms with cavalry, because if not getting tanks first, there's just a 5-turn difference.

On the other hand...

Well, I game with the Babylonians crashed just before saving, so I had to start again.

Data:

Chieftain

America
About 18 cities
Democracy
Early Industrial Age
Standard Map
8 Players, including me
70% Water, Continents

Other Civs:

Iroquois: Dominated them early iin the game, they just have 6 cities and are technologically backwards, but are my bootlickers.
Aztecs: At war with. They had 9 cities but already have lost 5, I am about to wipe them on just 3 turns, because they were weaklings.
Greek: My rival on the continent, they have 1 cities more than me, and are entering the Industrial Age.
Zulu: The biggest fish, on the other continent, but they are very backward, I don't know why.
Persians: A little smaller than me, they are a bit backwards.
Babylon: The most powerful on his continent, about the same as powerful as the greeks.
China: The smallest and least powerful of his continent, though they have a good military.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Normally I have a peaceful early industrial age, I try to take the most out of cavalry to invade, because by this time, the AI has some very big cities and 2 or 3 are on hills, and when I try to take an offensive with 15 cavalry against their rifles, I lose 10 have the rest damaged and a relined rifleman that was conscripted is what they have left the next turn arrive reinforcements, and that's when I get to start suicide tactics, because I get ass-kicked on the frontline, not to lose cities, but to lose units, and I am not playing with Conquests, so the best gov I can use for war is Monarchy and Commy at the mid-game or if I am over-extended.

Republic is still a good War government, you just (still) have to be a bit careful. Cav against Healthy Rifles is not a good proposition - you almost need Artillery to soften the defenders up.

 

[Raliuven]

I don't know. If those rifles are in a city with pop 7-12, 15 cav should still be able to take 3-4 rifles. Even if it is on a hill you would think a stack would take it. But the RNG gods are fickle. Because I am a cautious player, I would use cannons to soften them up if needed - or pillage/occupy their infrastructure so that the city shrinks to size 6.

Better yet, if you have a few Cav armies, use them to take on the vet rifles and let the stack take out the conscripts.

Its a hard call. If possible, take out weaker cities first to ruin production and then come back to the tough cities. Once they have no place to send reinforcements, you should be able to outproduce them into extinction.