Help with Pirates! Yarr! by Paasky

AMAZING!!!
and going to be indescribable!

I was sent a few invitation to Google Wave. At first I thought it was just another networking site I would have to add to the collection I already have that I can't keep up with now.

Well I watched the video and learned at some point very soon I'll will be managing everyone of those Groups, Forums, facebook, MySpace accounts, email etc. from just one place!

I'm very excited about it because along with the games we play here I like to add a bit of flavor to them by adding RPG or story elements to them and challenging others to do so as well. I'm willing to bet even this Forum will have connectivity to it. With that said I have created an account with my gmail address which most of you know and already getting out of it things I wished I could do using other means.

Watch the 8 minute video and judge for yourself, I think it will take my gaming to a new level
 
I made it through a revolution of turns and took pics of statistics for each player.
Only a few have difficulty researching due to overall economy.

Portugal and both Pirates can not research without making drastic change within the game.
France can research but at 10%
Britain will run out of gold very quick
Spain is rich
Netherlands and the Undead pirates looks good
 

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Eclipse4449 said:
I made it through a revolution of turns and took pics of statistics for each player.
Only a few have difficulty researching due to overall economy.

Portugal and both Pirates can not research without making drastic change within the game.
France can research but at 10%
Britain will run out of gold very quick
Spain is rich
Netherlands and the Undead pirates looks good
Click to expand...

Maximum research time is set for 6 turns, so all advances can be researched within the space of the game. Here's a tip, don't waist money on researching techs. Minimum research time is 4 turns and max is six. europeans should use cash to buy units.
 
The Guardian said:
Here's a tip, don't waist money on researching techs. Minimum research time is 4 turns and max is six. europeans should use cash to buy units.
Click to expand...

I already came to the same conclusion during my first set of turns... Except that I used the cash for rushing improvements (Wharfs, Granaries, Palisades, etc.) Basically when I noticed that max time is 6 and that I can't get to 4 for most techs even with 100%, I went lone scientist and 100% tax and was swimming in gold...

Ok I played another set of turns this weekend (sorry, Guardian, looks like I won't have time for Napoleon during this vacation...;) ), and want to add a few more comments:

  • At one point the game shut itself down with the message "Missing entry in Scenarios\Pirates\text\Pediaicons.txt: WON_SPLASH_BLDG_slave_market
  • Can techs be traded? The game is pretty much progressed by now, but still no tech trade possible in F4. Either the AI did not research anything, or they are not tradable?!
  • In the American towns, strategic resources (Saltpeter, Horses, etc) are not displayed in the left corner of the city screen?!
  • When I enslave a simple lousy Privateer for example, I get a powerful Frigate as enslaved ship?! Is this ok? E.g. when I enslave an enemy ship, my carpenters immediately turn it into a nice up-to-date ship?!
  • Ship movement is quite confusing: some ships use two movement points for coastal squares, some for ocean squares. Also what kind of unit each ship can transport is hard to memorize. For example marines seem to be transportable by ManOfWar only?! Can we get a "Matrix" of all ship types showing their movement cost, what they can transport, whether they have lethal bombardment and whether they can enslave? I'd like to print that out and have it ready for reference to assist my feeble brain... :old:
  • Similarly an overview matrix of city improvements would be helpful.
  • Settlers can't build a town in swamp, jungle and forest. Swamp is ok, jungle may be acceptable, but why forest? :confused: Together with the very slow worker speed, this makes colonizing almost impossible/extremely painfully slow. My suggestion: worker speed back to normal and allow settling in forest.
  • Can you give the different pirate tribes different colors?
  • Plumbing says "Allows town to grow beyond size 3". But I had a town without plumbing and without fresh water, that grew to 6?! And what is the improvement that allows growth beyond 12? Hospital says it allows growth beyond 6.

Lanzelot
 
Lanzelot said:
Ship movement is quite confusing: some ships use two movement points for coastal squares, some for ocean squares. Also what kind of unit each ship can transport is hard to memorize. For example marines seem to be transportable by ManOfWar only?! Can we get a "Matrix" of all ship types showing their movement cost, what they can transport, whether they have lethal bombardment and whether they can enslave? I'd like to print that out and have it ready for reference to assist my feeble brain... :old:
Click to expand...

Arexander said:
Some transports can transport only foot units. Refer to ships.txt in \Scenarios\Pirates\art\text for stats of the ships. Just a little warning: there are some unnecessary spaces in there so it can be a bit messy.
Click to expand...

;) (ten characters)
 
Lanzelot said:
I already came to the same conclusion during my first set of turns... Except that I used the cash for rushing improvements (Wharfs, Granaries, Palisades, etc.) Basically when I noticed that max time is 6 and that I can't get to 4 for most techs even with 100%, I went lone scientist and 100% tax and was swimming in gold...

Ok I played another set of turns this weekend (sorry, Guardian, looks like I won't have time for Napoleon during this vacation...;) ), and want to add a few more comments:

  • At one point the game shut itself down with the message "Missing entry in Scenarios\Pirates\text\Pediaicons.txt: WON_SPLASH_BLDG_slave_market
  • Can techs be traded? The game is pretty much progressed by now, but still no tech trade possible in F4. Either the AI did not research anything, or they are not tradable?!
  • In the American towns, strategic resources (Saltpeter, Horses, etc) are not displayed in the left corner of the city screen?!
  • When I enslave a simple lousy Privateer for example, I get a powerful Frigate as enslaved ship?! Is this ok? E.g. when I enslave an enemy ship, my carpenters immediately turn it into a nice up-to-date ship?!
  • Ship movement is quite confusing: some ships use two movement points for coastal squares, some for ocean squares. Also what kind of unit each ship can transport is hard to memorize. For example marines seem to be transportable by ManOfWar only?! Can we get a "Matrix" of all ship types showing their movement cost, what they can transport, whether they have lethal bombardment and whether they can enslave? I'd like to print that out and have it ready for reference to assist my feeble brain... :old:
  • Similarly an overview matrix of city improvements would be helpful.
  • Settlers can't build a town in swamp, jungle and forest. Swamp is ok, jungle may be acceptable, but why forest? :confused: Together with the very slow worker speed, this makes colonizing almost impossible/extremely painfully slow. My suggestion: worker speed back to normal and allow settling in forest.
  • Can you give the different pirate tribes different colors?
  • Plumbing says "Allows town to grow beyond size 3". But I had a town without plumbing and without fresh water, that grew to 6?! And what is the improvement that allows growth beyond 12? Hospital says it allows growth beyond 6.

Lanzelot
Click to expand...

I've been waiting for some feed back, thanks.

I will check on the Wonder, that is probably just a missing txt entry.I believe techs are not tradable. Should this be changed?

I will check on the city screen display and see why the resources are not there, they should be there.

Enslaved ships are set to be frigates, however I noticed the the enslave flag is checked for european vessels but, I neglected to put in the enslave results on some ships. My bad, sorry, I will fix that. the enslave result must be the lowest combat vessel or naval power type vessel that is upgradeable. The european powers get some pretty powerful naval units towards the end of the game. I am waiting for more test game feedback before setting the actual game length.

For simplicity sake, All warships (european) transport only marines and officers. Transport type ships transport any type of unit, except coastal batteries. Coastal batteries are not suppose to be transportable. Pirate ships transport all unit types, except coastal batteries.

I will work on a ship and building spreadsheet as soon as I finish work on the civilopedia. AFTER the holidays :D:D

I agree with you regarding cities. I will allow cities in forest and jungle, and will enable disease in jungles.

Yes I can give each pirate civ a different color.

Finally, I will correct the city growth rate, there is probably a building or a tech connection that is set incorrectly.

As soon as the holidays are over, I will upload an update with whatever fixes I have completed. The civilopedia will take some time. There is a lot of work that needs to be done there, and I have several other projects on the board that I am working on, but I will finish this as soon as I can. Keep the feedback coming, the more feedback I get the quicker I finish.
 
Arexander said:
;) (ten characters)
Click to expand...

Arex, the ships txt file is no longer valid. Many, many changes have been made, and there may be more. That is why I haven't posted a new list. I am working on a list that will include all ship info as well as a pic of each ship in xml. I have just recently added another ship, the Flying Dutchman, which will be included in the next update, and almost all ship A/D have changed, as well as their transport capabilities.
 
The Guardian said:
For simplicity sake, All warships (european) transport only marines and officers. Transport type ships transport any type of unit, except coastal batteries. Coastal batteries are not suppose to be transportable. Pirate ships transport all unit types, except coastal batteries.
Click to expand...

Are Frigates warships? I remember I had a pair of marines sitting in London for ages and I tried many ships (Corvette, Frigate, Merchantman), but only the ManOfWar finally was able to transport the marines. Cannons for example could be loaded on Galleons, but not on Merchantmen/Corvettes/Frigates?!

I managed to load a coastal battery onto a ship...! :confused: (Unfortunately can't remember which type of ship it was...)

Also I noticed that Cavalry can be transported by any ship, while Dragoons can only be transported by Galleons/Merchantmen?! But I guess that doesn't matter much, as one of the two horse-based units will be removed from the game anyway.

As I said: this topic remains a bit confusing, even after a bit of trial and error... ;)

Anyway, great work! Have a nice Holiday season,
Lanzelot
 
Lanzelot said:
Are Frigates warships? I remember I had a pair of marines sitting in London for ages and I tried many ships (Corvette, Frigate, Merchantman), but only the ManOfWar finally was able to transport the marines. Cannons for example could be loaded on Galleons, but not on Merchantmen/Corvettes/Frigates?!

I managed to load a coastal battery onto a ship...! :confused: (Unfortunately can't remember which type of ship it was...)

Also I noticed that Cavalry can be transported by any ship, while Dragoons can only be transported by Galleons/Merchantmen?! But I guess that doesn't matter much, as one of the two horse-based units will be removed from the game anyway.

As I said: this topic remains a bit confusing, even after a bit of trial and error... ;)

Anyway, great work! Have a nice Holiday season,
Lanzelot
Click to expand...

I am working on the ships now. Only a couple hours a day. I seek a little time in on the comp while my girl friend goes shopping :D. I also did some work on the ship xml file.

Warships include the following:
Brig
Brig of War
Brigantine
Corvette
Frigate
Heavy Frigate
Man o War
Sloop of War
Ships of the Line
War Galleons

Pirate ships have no restrictions on the type of units they can transport.
with the exception of coastal batteries
 
Balthasar said:
Not to kibbitz, but why shouldn't you be able to dismantle and transport a coastal battery? The guns, etc. didn't get there by themselves. It should require a hearty ship, however....
Click to expand...

Coastal batteries are only available to coastal Forts. These are heavy guns and are meant to represent Gun that are set up in coastal forts to protect cities and naval bases. Once installed they were rarely moved. Many of them can still be seen at the ruins of coastal fortresses all over the world. From early spanish fortresses in the carribean to the US fortress at corigidor. A good example of this is the fortress set up by the british in Singapore. All the guns were set up to repulse a naval invasion. At the outbreak of WWII when the japanese invaded singapore, they landed NW west of the city and proceeded with a land assault. The city fell very quickly. Why, because they could not move the big guns or even turn them around to defend against the land based assault.
 
;););) Here's a little Xmas gift ;););)

I had a little time this evening. Couldn't sleep. ( Excited about 1st Xmas with my new fiancee' )

So, I finished the ship list. A couple of comments. I need your feedback regarding the A/D, movement rates and most of all, I need feedback on the cost of these units. I don't have time to test each unit to determine how long it takes to build them. I have to tell you that I have also changed several things in the game regarding movement rates and worker building rates as suggested by Lancelot. NEW FILES WILL BE POSTED AFTER NEW YEARS

Here's the list View attachment Ships.zip
 
The Guardian said:
;););) Here's a little Xmas gift ;););)

I had a little time this evening. Couldn't sleep. ( Excited about 1st Xmas with my new fiancee' )

So, I finished the ship list. A couple of comments. I need your feedback regarding the A/D, movement rates and most of all, I need feedback on the cost of these units. I don't have time to test each unit to determine how long it takes to build them. I have to tell you that I have also changed several things in the game regarding movement rates and worker building rates as suggested by Lancelot. NEW FILES WILL BE POSTED AFTER NEW YEARS

Here's the list View attachment 238061
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot! Here a few comments based on my experience with the "old" units (of course I could not test the "new" units yet):
  • A-D-HP values look good. They did not change that much from the old values, so I can compare them easily with the game experience. Only two changes come to my mind: a) perhaps you can make the difference between Frigate, Heavy Frigate and ManOfWar a bit clearer. At the moment they are at 50, 55, 60. That's not much difference. I would suggest 50, 60, 70. b) Perhaps increase the defense value of the standard Galleon type ships a bit?!
  • What does ROF mean? :confused:
  • In the original game the bombardment values were way too high. (Corvette with a bombardment of 120 was a monster...!) However, now they are a bit too low for my taste. (Corvette with BB of 20?! That won't do much damage at all...) I suggest that the BB value of the war ships should in general be a bit higher than their attack value. E.g. Corvette with BB of 50 or 60, ManOfWar 70 or 80 instead of 30, etc.
  • Which of the ships have lethal bombardment?
  • I would give the fast ships an extra movement point in order to make the destinction between the fast and the slow ships a bit clearer.
  • What are the movement rules (i.e. the movement cost for coastal, sea and ocean tiles for each ship)?
  • The costs (shields/pop) are ok. They don't matter much anyway, as the capital will build any ship in 1-2 turns, no matter what the shield costs are. Only the Turtle seems too expensive to me. Shouldn't that be a cheap unit, once you have the tech?!

Have a nice Christmas, you and your fiancé!!
Lanzelot
 
ROf means Rate of Fire.

Those stats look good. How did you get them? Just put some numbers that are in some kind of relation with the ship sizes and numbers of cannons etc.?
 
Arexander said:
ROf means Rate of Fire.

Those stats look good. How did you get them? Just put some numbers that are in some kind of relation with the ship sizes and numbers of cannons etc.?
Click to expand...

Basically, I researched the vessels and tried to keep them as historically accurate as possible. For attack strength, I used the number, size, and type of guns the ships of that era ussually carried. That part was relatively easy, especially for the european civs. defense is the same. Movement is based on the time it takes the ships to sail from the colonies to europe, adjusted for game play and the possibility of bad weather, with a slight edge given to the pirates. I also wanted to allow the pirates to utilize hit and run tactics against the heavier european ships so I made the crossing time a little longer. The upgrades represent conversions to bronze cannons from iron and improved sail materials (from cotton to silk). Only the larger ships have BB because I doubt very much if any sloop, fluyt, or smaller type vessel would want to get into a duel with a fortress monting 20# caronades, and we all know how the AI loves to produce cheap vessels with BB capabilities and send floatillas to BB the heck out of your city defenses.

I am concerned about the unit costs. I think I am going to have to increase them. I need some in game feedback to determine what these costs should be. I did some testing and the costs seem quite low. most ships can be produced in 1 turn even on turn 1 of the game and the heavier ships only take 3-4 turns, but I don't have time to test every shipover the course of the entire game to come up with a satisfactory unit cost. I need some one to test play test and give me some feed back. I have a lot of work to do on the civilopedia and other projects are falling behind. I also need to do some more work on the techs and buildings.

I am going to change some of the units ( arty, infantry, and cavalry), Imperator is pumping out his 16c, 17c and 18c european units like crazy and I just can't pass them up. :D :D They are perfect for this scenario. And looks like Sandris will be adding even more.

BTW, I was looking over your unit list. I like your work. I am not happy with the undead pirates I have. I thinking of asking you if you might be able to come up with some undead pirates or skeleton pirate and an undead pirate captain for me. I know its a lot to ask but it would really improve the scenario a lot and a lot of the players want to play the scenario as the undead. What do you think?
 
Hi guys Merry Christmas to you and you families.

I have played a few turns of each civ except Britain and was amazed at how diverse each civ is, wow. Some nations have a whole bunch of ships and others many so this must be a plan to give each civ its diversity, I see nothing wrong here but didn’t really break it down.

My main focus has been the Swashbucklers (Pirates). In the beginning I was worried that a pair of European could band together or all separately just simply rid the seas of them quickly. Playing as them with the rest as AIs they don’t seem to focus heavily on the Pirates. Taking the cities on the island Tortuga is on was a breeze but holding them from these countries while humans control them would be tough. I haven’t yet made it to the tech to upgrade the “enslaved units” I captured from taking these cities but I’m sure that’ll be a matter of research

The early game 10 turns or so I still haven’t been able to journey into the shipping lanes due to the fear of loosing my newly acquired cities. If I am unable to do this my only hope is that the opposing European nations apply pressure on each other to keep the delivery of treasures down to a minimum. I say this because I haven’t been able to capture treasures making my chances of success slim.

I played as the Undead Pirates and they ROCK!! Attacking any ship with a Squid is awesome. After producing a few squids I went directly to melee units, but buccaneers were all I could train at least until the proper tech was researched, so I didn’t find a way to train the Undeadspear I started with, which are very nice and powerful. The Undead Pirates in the hands of a human player will put the fear in all players.

Spain is a giant, in the hands of a good player how could they not win? Are they slowed by major corruption or are they vulnerable to the starting units of the other players?

I’m sorry I’m no help with the questions you are really seeking like unit cost or A/D/M as I can see it I do not know, I just hope that the length of the game 240 which would be appropriate for other games but might be leave this game short, but I’ve only timed out very few games, so again my comments are lacking.

I’ll continue playing as the swashbucklers while others are play testing a European civ. I just don’t see the Pirates as a land taking civ to compete with the production power of the rest. So these factors of production cost and A/D/M are very important to give each its chance to win the game.

Can Spain's Porto Bello be placed in line with Panama to allow a passageway to the Pacific? I do realize the canal wouldn't be there in this timeframe but it is a shame to lose access to that area.

Here are a few pics from turn 32 as the Swashbucklers, this is on Monarch level and it seems Spain is the only force to recon with Hehe.
I'll play 18 more turns here and move onto the Peglegs.

I see Lanzelot is testing the English, is anyone testing other nations so not to do the same leader?

Thanks for all your work everyone!!
 
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