Help with Prince

[rylmets12]

That GH spot did reveal some nice tiles. I went one step further with my warrior and here's what it looks like:



Just to give an initial reaction, The jungle area above the lake looks like a good place for city #3. The grassland/hills 1N from there also has potential, sacrificing one gems for a copper. Depending on what my warrior finds S of the capital, the hills/plains also has a lot of potential.

AH is complete, writing is up and going. The worker finished in my capital ready to road down to the 2nd city.

Thanks!

Save game: View attachment Forum Game Turn 40.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Lexicus]

I was going to say you want your next city next to the Pig, but since you're creative you can settle 2 tiles away no problem (and it looks China is far enough away that you won't be competing for the tile).

I might actually settle 1N or 1NW of the pig to get that grass copper (an excellent tile).

You should explore those few tiles to the W of the pig to see exactly where the river is and if there are any other resources near the pig.

 

[TalladegaKnight]

Too bad those gem tiles are jungled. Still you may have a bureaucracy capital around there with the gems and river, but that is in the distant future. That area needs some more exploration like Lexicus says.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Agreed, looks good but a bit more exploring needed.

 

[learner gamer]

@rylmets12: You're going well so far – I've just two points to add.

Firstly, make sure Capital City is working that grassland hill you mined (instead of an unimproved clams tile) to speed up the production of your settler.

Secondly, just to pick up on this point:

Agreed, looks good but a bit more exploring needed.

it's often said that the main job of your early scouting units (such as warriors or scouts) is to identify city sites for future settlement. In this case for instance, one of your warriors has identified a potential city site containing the pigs...so good job.

However, I can also see a gold mine just a few tiles north(ish) of the pigs (close to Isabella's borders) that might also be a good candidate for settling a city. Granted, the pigs site looks very good – but improving the gems will take until you get iron working to do (which you may get by teching it directly or likelier by trading for it). By contrast, you already have the tech you need (mining) to mine the gold – and you've also teched agriculture and animal husbandry if there's any food in the area that needs these techs to access. What you lack though is knowledge of what, if any, food there is in this area around the gold and therefore whether it's a better or worse site to settle than the pigs.

Part of the reason for this is that you've sent one of your warriors exploring the ice way up north. Now, granted, you've discovered some resources up there – but my guess is having that warrior explore potentially more fertile land like the tiles around the gold would've been a better bet, because it would've revealed knowledge of what was around the gold tile to you. In other words, whilst it can be worthwhile exploring the icy extremities of your landmass to reveal resources, the oft repeated mantra on here that “food is king” means you're usually better off in the early game exploring more fertile land to begin with – especially if it reveals a resource worth grabbing like gold - to see if it contains a city site worth settling.

Perhaps therefore try moving one of your warriors (eg. the one on the silver tile in the ice) to what looks to be another desert hill 1 west of the gold, so he can see the surrounding area.

 

[lymond]

hey ryl - Good job. Only issue is that you should have been working the mine instead of the coastal tile, as others have mentioned.

(learner - you are correct about the scouting..something we discussed earlier. however, we pretty much know what is up there now after some replays, so I asked ryl to place warrior there for simple spawnbust. A new warrior will go up there shortly as well to help)

Ryl:

1) work mine and finish a workboat to completion. This will get you to size 4. then start settler immediately..we are going to whip that about as soon as we can with minimal regard for max OF. We want pigs city asap

2) new worker roads to 2nd city. 1 worker completes farm and moves to cow. 2nd worker will help finish. then they start road W to pigs.

3) I like new city 1W of pigs. Even though creative I still like being able to get pigs working immediately.

4) 2nd city will finish warrior and start a new one. We want this city to grow to size 4 for a worker whip into library. (my expectation is that you will finish a "creative" library in 1 turn. then city will grow into scientists there.

5) Do one turn of binary research (0%) this turn then go full research to finish writing.

6) after workers complete roads on way to pig - settler should be out - one worker will move to improve pigs and the other will move on road to chop forest 2W of 2nd city which will time with worker whip there to complete library

Future cities - I know what gold area looks like, but I see this as the 4th city mainly for the resources. City will have minimal production value but have some research potential (there's another gold, a FP to farm, and can share copper at times. 5 city probably next to gems somewhere. Again, more of a resource/research city and hard to do much with until you trade for IW, but we want to seal off that corridor before china. A city can also go N of cap to share a clam. And possibly one up there to grab silver/clams/marble, but that is a bit of a haul. Anyway, some time for all that.

Let's do a check in after WB complete just to see how things are going.

oh..warriors...Warrior next to 2nd city continues south to scout a spawnbust. I would head straight south to coast, the maybe a few tiles SW just to see that, then back to 1E of gems to bust. Warrior near China can step SW and then grasshill, then zig back up W and then E to scout a tad more but stay in area to protect for new city. Spain and China are not far from you.

 

[rylmets12]

Too bad those gem tiles are jungled. Still you may have a bureaucracy capital around there with the gems and river, but that is in the distant future. That area needs some more exploration like Lexicus says.

@TalladegaKnight - If I understand correctly, you are suggesting possibly building a Palace in the future city that will have the gems. I always thought building the palace somewhere would just be a waste of hammers. Is that something one should seriously consider?

@rylmets12: You're going well so far – I've just two points to add.

Firstly, make sure Capital City is working that grassland hill you mined (instead of an unimproved clams tile) to speed up the production of your settler.

Thanks for the reminder and kind words! Your other feedback is interesting, thanks for sharing.

On the game:

I met Caesar on turn 40 and he built a second city on turn 42:



I kept the warrior north per @lymond's suggestion and used my western most warrior to explore the region closer to the gold:



I made the adjustment in the Capital city to my newly mined tile and finished the workboat, which is waiting for orders. The second city has both workers completing the cow. I did the turn of binary science and am on the way to completing Writing at 100%.

Saved Game: View attachment Forum Game Turn 44.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[learner gamer]

(learner - you are correct about the scouting..something we discussed earlier. however, we pretty much know what is up there now after some replays, so I asked ryl to place warrior there for simple spawnbust. A new warrior will go up there shortly as well to help)

No probs @lymond. I didn't realise that an earlier play through had revealed the tiles you mention.

@rylmets12 / @lymond: There is one point though that might need looking at concerning the planned city 1W of pigs. Unless I'm mistaken, China's borders will pop again at the end of turn 50 to take that tile. (My rationale: the borders are Beijing's, which will get two culture per turn from the palace and therefore the 100 culture needed to pop borders again at the end of turn 50.) If correct, this means that @rylmets12 has 6 turns currently to (a) whip the settler and (b) transport it to the planned city site 1W of pigs. Based on Capital City's production, I estimate that the settler will take 3 turns to be (2 pop) whippable (at 53 hammers) - which leaves just three turns to make it to 1W of the pigs as planned. Is that doable?

 

[lymond]

China culture won't impact settling that spot. It will over take some tiles east of the pigs temporarily, but 3rd city will get them back. And with Library, Academy and eventually Palace there it will be no problem. only problem is an unhappy Mao, but oh well. On higher levels I might take another approach.

 

[lymond]

ryl -

Ok:

1) net clams immediately and make sure cap is working corn, copper, netted clam, and mine. Build settler

2) workers finish cow. 1 worker moves to forest 2W of city2 and the other will move 1W of city2. Both will lay roads on those tiles. This will time perfect for settler whip. They will then both move to forest tiles SW of forest worker1 is on after road. (worker2 can move through the road already on that tile). lay road there before settling city 1E of pigs. By doing so, note that you will receive an immediate trade route in that city and boosted commerce and research.

3) City2 finishes warrior and starts another one. After first warrrior finishes, due to growth to size 4 and unhappines, work the forest PH for 1 turn and then the forested silk for 1 turn to time warrior completion to growth. City 2 will then start a new worker at size 4

Play 3 turns and post..I want to check worker actions and settler build to time whip right

(note these little adjustments we make to cities now and then. important to micro cities heavily especially early to make sure they are doing the right things)

oh..and W warrior can move 1 more tile N then head back south. Other warrior can move SW a couple of tiles to reveal area and then move back E of gems. You will likely keep these warriors around S for a bit to prevent a barb city from spawning. We don't want that as we pan to settle down there fairly soon for gems and horses.

 

[learner gamer]

China culture won't impact settling that spot. It will over take some tiles east of the pigs temporarily, but 3rd city will get them back. And with Library, Academy and eventually Palace there it will be no problem. only problem is an unhappy Mao, but oh well. On higher levels I might take another approach.

Hmmm....unless I'm mistaken both the jumbos and the tile 1W of the pigs will be swallowed by Mao's borders at the end of turn 50. If I'm right, one answer will be to settle 1NW of the pigs instead of the planned 1W. But that will prevent settling a city on the riverside floodplain (1NW of the copper) to capture what you mentioned were two gold mines, courtesy of the two tile rule.

 

[learner gamer]

Actually, ignore me. I think I see what you're going to do with the micro @lymond. If my guess is right (and the two workers converge on the tile 1W of the forest to lay down another road before the settler moves off the forest), the settler will get 1W of the pigs and settle at the beginning of T50. Mao's borders will pop at the end of the turn, so you just beat him out. Nice micro!

 

[lymond]

Oh crap...I meant 1E of pigs...i'm directionally challenged

1W of pigs would be silly

 

[learner gamer]

Deleted original post because I double confused myself. Having gone back into the save, I did think you meant 1W. That's where my confusion has arisen re: Mao's borders. Just to add to the confusion, I think you can actually settle 1W of the pigs if you wanted to, given the micro you've started to suggest.

 

[lymond]

hey ryl - on a side note, take a look at sampsa's recent post in the thread "Noble=>Prince", which has another learner game going. Check out his thoughts and the pic where he has drawn out some black boxes to indicate to Stefan how spawnbusting works...like I described ungraphically earlier. Should help to visualize how that works so you can make use of it later.

 

[TalladegaKnight]

@TalladegaKnight - If I understand correctly, you are suggesting possibly building a Palace in the future city that will have the gems. I always thought building the palace somewhere would just be a waste of hammers. Is that something one should seriously consider?

Bureaucracy is a powerful civic and is a reason that a lot of players build the Oracle to get civil service. Any game that makes it to civil service, moving the capital should be considered. It is situational like everything in civ, but in some cases is very worthwhile. In your case your financial, so a riverside cottage gives 3 commerce right away. Combine that with bureaucracy and your research rate will take off. It depends on what victory you choose to go for, but something to think about.

 

[lymond]

Yep, plan is to move Palace to pigs city. A Palace move is something consider if your starting location is not good for Bureau cap. A strong Bureau cap is one of the most powerful things in the game.

 

[Seraiel]

I'd settle 2E of Pigs, as it saves a Forest and gets 1 more Gems with IW. I don't care too much about having the Pigs from the start, having the Forest makes up for that.

As this is Prince, I'd btw. advise an Axe-rush of China.

 

[learner gamer]

I'd settle 2E of Pigs, as it saves a Forest and gets 1 more Gems with IW. I don't care too much about having the Pigs from the start, having the Forest makes up for that.

As this is Prince, I'd btw. advise an Axe-rush of China.

My tip would be for the OP to ensure the area south of the gems gets explored by the nearest warrior (as per @lymond's last point in post #46) – and then ask what the purpose of settling a city by the pigs is.

As it stands, I think the decision to settle 1E of the pigs (as suggested) implicitly assumes that there's sufficient food in the area (eg. off the coast) to work both gem mines – which is what I'd want a city somewhere down there to do. Assuming the goal is to work both gem mines, then settling 2E 1S of the pigs becomes the preferred site – unless other food in the area exists to permit a different settle.

On the other hand, perhaps the thinking here is to access the copper (although it already exists in the capital's BFC) - perhaps to try and deny it to Izzy and Mao – which means settling 1E or 2E of the pigs merits consideration.

BTW as this is prince, I think you could take out both Mao and Izzy with axes.