Henry VIII

[Socratatus]

Henry VIII should have been an optional English Leader. In fact THE English leader! He was Great.

I`m tired of Elizabeth in every Civ game.

Henry VIII would probably have appreciated being chosen for England in game!

 

[Morningcalm]

He's an interesting, and certainly very powerful figure--but he did more wrong for the country than good, in my opinion. He's not quite as controversial as Mao or Stalin, but he shouldn't be in the game for the same reasons.

Why not someone else? I really wouldn't mind seeing a Winston Churchill leader screen.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

He's married to the widow next door.

 

[JanghanHong]

I think Victoria would be better. Not that she's a better representative of England as Elizabeth, but no, I would rather not make a trade agreement with England. I'm gonna guess she'd have a better accent, and doesn't start guarded or hostile every single time.

 

[True_Candyman]

Henry VIII - England
UA: Chivalry - -1 gold per turn for every turn of the game. -25% effectiveness of all combat units. - 20% happiness. +1 food in capital city.

Churchill - England
UA: Defenders Spirit - All wine resources improved are consumed instead of tradable

Victoria - England
UA: Imperial Highness - Gain a worker every time you meet an empire and they gain 3 warriors.

 

[Socratatus]

He's an interesting, and certainly very powerful figure--but he did more wrong for the country than good, in my opinion. He's not quite as controversial as Mao or Stalin, but he shouldn't be in the game for the same reasons.

Why not someone else? I really wouldn't mind seeing a Winston Churchill leader screen.

Winston Churchill`s ok, but I don`t see Henry VIII as any worse than some leaders already in the game. To be honest, being a Brit, I`m proud of his giant `larger than life` ways, perfect for a Civ leader despite his faults. He was also very modern for his time, making huge building programs and pushing for a better military. Also, Elizabeth comes from him so he`s what made her (and her spirit) possible. So he popped off his wives like confetti and kicked out the Catholic church for his own ends- No worse than some Civs in game.

p.s. Stalin was in the first Civ game.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Being English, I can say that for the majority of Englishmen, the two figureheads that most inspire patriotism and the two generally regarded highest are Churchill and Victoria. A distant thrid would be Elizabeth (I). Henry VIII doesn't really rank anywhere close, basically being a fat partying womaniser who did little for the country, save for the 'mistake' of doing something good with the foundation of the CoE, for the entirely selfish reason of wanting a divorce. he famously got through 6 wives, and his wars (and audacious shows on the continent) nearly bankrupt the country, leaving the last of the Tudors to clear up after him. At least that's what the British schooling system has lead me to believe .
If there was one leader I'd want it'd be Victoria, being the Queen an the zenith of the British empire. Also, Churchill sucked boot as a peacetime PM, even if he was perfect for the situation at the time. Elizabeth did a lot for the country, but mostly I haven't been able to take her seriously since Blackadder.

 

[blackcatatonic]

Henry VIII is a well-known leader for two reasons: he married six times and split with the Catholic Church. He's nowhere near as popular as Victoria, Elizabeth, Churchill (if you want to go there) or even Henry V.

Henry VIII - England
UA: Chivalry - -1 gold per turn for every turn of the game. -25% effectiveness of all combat units. - 20% happiness. +1 food in capital city.

What on earth do these attributes have to do with 'chivalry'? In fact, what does Henry VIII have to do with 'chivalry', other than he liked to joust a lot in his youth and an old jousting injuring precipitated his death?

 

[Lordleoz]

Henry VIII is a well-known leader for two reasons: he married six times and split with the Catholic Church. He's nowhere near as popular as Victoria, Elizabeth, Churchill (if you want to go there) or even Henry V.

And beheaded or exiled most of his wives.

 

[Lordleoz]

Frankly I hate Henry VIII. He was really a cruel and arbitrary monarch. This is what Charles Dickens wrote on his book: The plain truth is, that he (Henry VIII) was a most intolerable ruffian, a disgrace to human nature, and a blot of blood and grease upon the History of England.

 

[blackcatatonic]

And beheaded or exiled most of his wives.

Not really, unless by 'exiled' you mean 'divorced'.

 

[TM Moot]

Victoria was more British then English
Churchill was an elected politician, i'd rather have royalty/dictators etc.. in the game

Could always have Edward Longshanks or Edward III

Personally I would love to have Alfred the Great in the game, perhaps in a Wessex mod

 

[Crafty Bison]

Fairly confident Victoria was not Welsh, so dunno what the British not English is about. Maybe I'm missing something. The closest you could claim to anything other than English is probably German. It's also kinda wierd to assert that being British not English would change anything, it's not like the borders and makeup of sovereign states hasn't changed in other civlisation before. Are we to discount her because India was part of her empire at the time?

 

[TM Moot]

Fairly confident Victoria was not Welsh, so dunno what the British not English is about. Maybe I'm missing something. The closest you could claim to anything other than English is probably German. It's also kinda wierd to assert that being British not English would change anything, it's not like the borders and makeup of sovereign states hasn't changed in other civlisation before. Are we to discount her because India was part of her empire at the time?

I'll assume you don't know the differences between English and British then...

Although you were spot on about the German bit

Here's a snipet of Vickys wiki entry
Queen Victoria (Alexandrina Victoria; 24 May 1819 – 22 January 1901) was the monarch of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland from 20 June 1837 until her death. From 1 May 1876, she used the additional title of Empress of India.Her reign of 63 years and 7 months, which is longer than that of any other British monarch and the longest of any female monarch in history, is known as the Victorian era. It was a period of industrial, cultural, political, scientific, and military change within the United Kingdom, and was marked by a great expansion of the British Empire. She was the last British monarch of the House of Hanover; her son and successor Edward VII belonged to the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, the line of his father.

Lots of mentions of Britain and the United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland/Northern Ireland (varies)).

Yes, England is part of Britain, but English is most definitely not the same as British. (Don't worry, i'm confused too, and i'm English/British to boot!)

 

[Chee]

Anybody will be better then Elizabeth, the backstabbing.....

 

[Crafty Bison]

Britain = England + Wales.
Great Britain = Britain + Scotland.
(As a consequnce of the 1707 acts of union. Before, British was used to refer to all natives of the island, but by including both Scotland and England (which at that time also included Wales), and refering to it as Great Britain, Britain assumed the role of those areas of the island not part of Scotland).
United Kindom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland = Great Britain + Northern Ireland.
I don't know exactly where All of the overseas territories fit in, but I'm not sure this was the problem.

To the point, Victoria is 'English', she is also 'British', and was monarch of the UK. All are true, and she would make a perfectly valid leader for civ.

 

[TM Moot]

I am British, so do.
Britain = England + Wales.
Great Britain = Britain + Scotland.
United Kindom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland = Great Britain + Northern Ireland.
I don't know exactly where All of the overseas territories fit in, but I'm not sure this was the problem.

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily agree with this, but its close enough .

Back to Vicky, she's definitely more British (however package'd) then English, hence why I suggested one of the Edwards (I or III) if a replacement for Lizzy was wanted.

 

[Socratatus]

I think picking on him for how he was with his wives is missing the point. Look at all the other leaders in Civ5... Genghis Khan, Atiila the Hun, Catherine the `great`, even boudica (who killed men, women and children horribly).

Nearly all these `great` Leaders in CIV5 have something bad about them. In fact, nearly all great leaders in history were no angels. Even the nicest have something bad they did to get there. Henry VIII is really one of the better ones by comparison. He reminds me how Bluetooth of the Vikings would be ingame, laughing, jovial, fun - until you CROSS him!

Look at him in his portraits! He`s a classic! Imagine that replicated in a Civ leader with a good robust voice actor, "WELCOME! YOU MEET ME! THE KING OF ENGLAND! HAVE YOU SEEN MY PALACES? YOU MUST SEE THEM, BUT FIRST WE JOUST!!"

He would obviously be a big builder, expansionistic and make his own Religion. He`d would also be a patron of culture too.

Also he`s an ENGLISH King, where Churchill and Victoria are BRITISH. This makes him a worthy choice in my view.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

What's wrong with Elizabeth?

I'd rather they develop new civs before going into new leaders for existing ones.

 

[Socratatus]

What's wrong with Elizabeth? I'd rather they develop new civs before going into new leaders for existing ones.

Nothing. But how about a different English leader for a change?



It`s ALWAYS Elizabeth. Every CiV game it`s Elizabeth. Compare that to other Civs in Civ5 which have generally used different leaders this time round.