HephMod: a mod combo-pack emphasizing balance, realism, and historical flavor

[Jaybe]

Heph, thanx for the automated event signage!
Two small issues (well, actually one spoiler & one confusion):
1. Signs also appear in unexplored lands (as in "on the other continent"), giving the player a clue ... must be adept at reading the currents and other sea signs
2. Also got a "+2P (tin)", for which the "P" must stand for hammers ... was the signage done, ah, "elsewhere"?
Or is the "P" supposed to look like a hammer?

 

[mike_cf]

Excellent mod Heph. Looking for the next version

 

[Hephaistion]

Heph, thanx for the automated event signage!
Two small issues (well, actually one spoiler & one confusion):
1. Signs also appear in unexplored lands (as in "on the other continent"), giving the player a clue ... must be adept at reading the currents and other sea signs
2. Also got a "+2P (tin)", for which the "P" must stand for hammers ... was the signage done, ah, "elsewhere"?
Or is the "P" supposed to look like a hammer?

"P" is for "Production"

 

[Slaughter]

I'm having a blast with this mod. I'm playing Hammurabi in a islands game and its pretty challenging. Right now, my biggest problems are revolutions, barbarians and Egyptians. My expansion was delayed by a revolution and barbarians, so when I perceived, a minor egyptian state was funded inside my island! MY ISLAND! On another side, I'm surprised Boudicca didn't do anything after I made two cities near a iron and a copper resource in her main island. Hey, blame the Egyptians, their city is next to the only iron source in my island, so I had to improvise.

However, there's a strange lack of Axemen to build. They are upgrading to Swordmen to some reason, which is kinda wrong. Also, Axemen got too nerfed, the vanilla stats were pretty good and balanced, I suggest to change Axemen back to Vanilla. Also, Crossbows lost their melee bonus and longbows are kinda sucky. Why?

EDIT: Why your recent version ins't in the first post? I downloaded .82 and had crashing when I tried to play with it! I recommend you to put the link to .9c in the first post.

 

[Hephaistion]

I'm having a blast with this mod. I'm playing Hammurabi in a islands game and its pretty challenging. Right now, my biggest problems are revolutions, barbarians and Egyptians. My expansion was delayed by a revolution and barbarians, so when I perceived, a minor egyptian state was funded inside my island! MY ISLAND! On another side, I'm surprised Boudicca didn't do anything after I made two cities near a iron and a copper resource in her main island. Hey, blame the Egyptians, their city is next to the only iron source in my island, so I had to improvise.

However, there's a strange lack of Axemen to build. They are upgrading to Swordmen to some reason, which is kinda wrong. Also, Axemen got too nerfed, the vanilla stats were pretty good and balanced, I suggest to change Axemen back to Vanilla. Also, Crossbows lost their melee bonus and longbows are kinda sucky. Why?

EDIT: Why your recent version ins't in the first post? I downloaded .82 and had crashing when I tried to play with it! I recommend you to put the link to .9c in the first post.

Glad that you're enjoying it. Yes, axemen are now replaced by swordsmen as heavy infantry (historically, bronze melee weapons were replaced by iron); axemen were also nerfed because WesW and I found them unbalanced. Crossbowmen and longbowmen have switched roles, though instead of a melee bonus longbowmen have a higher basic strength and 2 first strikes (if well-trained with drill promotions and used tactically, longbowmen are far from sucky, I think you'll find; try them with the Trained Archer promotions and you'll see what I mean!); the why is again for historical reasons -- longbowmen were not city defender units, but designed for battlefield deployment.

The .9 series contains the new doctrine wonders and promotions, but is incomplete (modern period still remains to be done). I was waiting for the complete version to put in first post. Don't know why .82 would crash for you.

 

[Slaughter]

Don't forget Axemen can also be made with Iron, so if you hook up some iron AND copper, they're probrably using iron axes. But there's the whole balancing thing, IMHO Axemen were good before. Also, they were the only thing that could stand a chance against Praetorians, who can (and should) eat Swordmen for breakfast. I just think that Swordmen should't upgrade to Macemen, but I believe there's a lack of non-anti-something infantry in the medieval ages. What about adding "Men-At-Arms" as a upgrade for the Swordmen, and returning with the Axemen -----------> Macemen upgrade line? IMHO variety of units is always good, which kinda made me happy with those Skirmisher units that I found pretty interesting to use, as fast forerunners of the axeman.

So, when's the next version coming? I want to indicate this mod to a friend who likes civ.

 

[Jaybe]

CUIRASSIER upgrade to Cavalry icon shows the Hussar, not Cavalry. Really confused me when I encountered it.

In case it matters, I'm playing Rome (as always).
OTOH, I'm about to get my posterior kicked (a dominant overseas Aztec just managed a dogpile against me of both overseas and neighboring civs).

 

[Slaughter]

OTOH, I'm about to get my posterior kicked

So I'm not the only one getting ass kicked? In my case, I built two cities in Boudicca's little Celtic Island to get myself a source of iron. After I got rid of the Egyptians, I only had some time of peace until she attacked me. The problem is that she has a superior fleet. I managed to be slighty superior updating and building Caravels, but she got smart and also began to build caravels. Also, I lost almost all of my army just after the war began - She had better units than I thought, and I still had a lot of Swordmen. And we both have no horses, but guess what? She traded for some with Sitting Bull, so now she has KNIGHTS!

The worst thing is that if Boudicca didn't attack me, I would've attacked Persia instead. They don't have IRON. They asked for it multiple times, and I didn't sell them any. I was hoping to invade their island and kill them before they got gunpowder.

 

[GONdorman]

Hmmm, this mod seems sweet. D´ling now.

@Hephaistion

Current version is 0.82. Are you planing on getting up to 1.0? Just asking

EDIT: Oh, have just read that latest version is 0.9. It isnt in the first post

Where is it?

 

[Jaybe]

@ Slaughter: I ended up retiring from my game after a couple more turns. The Ottomans were next door & had the largest military (and were no tech slouch, either). As my 1st v0.9 game, it was a good orientation to the marathon-speed dynamic changes. My next game has been totally different: instead of being a crowded environment, my neighborhood is populated only by barbs.

 

[Lachlan]

When we can expect a new version ?

 

[Jaybe]

When we can expect a new version ?

Not real soon, I hope!
I would like to finish my current game first (another week at least, maybe two).

 

[Arkaeyn]

I've been playing a game where I was the first to Divine Right, but Islam wasn't founded. I was a Hindu Theocracy, which may be where the bug comes in?


Also, I've been working on a mod which alters the order in which cities are named, and changes the barbarian city names to be more "independent" cities, such as Krakow or Saigon. I'd love it if you'd take a completed version into Hephmod. It alters no gameplay. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=313080

I think adding the interface mode which shows civ names as well as leader names in the scorecard would be helpful, because the Revolution mod changes things so much, especially with Unrestricted Leaders.



EDIT:
I was wrong about the Islam bug. It got founded, just in one of the few cities I hadn't seen yet. I overestimated my tech lead.

 

[Stevenpfo]

Good mod. I'm really enjoying it.

Maybe it's just me but the revolutions seem to happen almost too much. Myself and a few other civs are able to plan properly and avoid them but it utterly destroys a few of the other civs out there. It is fun to watch and take advantage of though.

When I switch to free religion I still get one unhappy person demanding religious freedom everytime a religion is spread to my cities. My answer is to go back to Organized Religion and use the Inquisitors (another sweet feature). However, I then loose 20% research and it costs more on top of having to manually spam inquisitors to deal with the problem. Is Free Religion not working as intended or am I missing something?

Other than those there are a lot of different little things but I figure that's mostly due to me having not played the mod much. I look forward to getting used to it all.

 

[Jaybe]

When I switch to free religion I still get one unhappy person demanding religious freedom everytime a religion is spread to my cities.

The religious freedom is countered by the religion's temple . I rarely find it a problem (especially if I've expanded enough to have enough resources).

 

[Stevenpfo]

The religious freedom is countered by the religion's temple . I rarely find it a problem (especially if I've expanded enough to have enough resources).

Yeah, it just doesn't make sense to me. I've even had people say they will have a revolution unless I give them religion freedom via Free Religion ... Just to have them get mad that their religion is not the state religion by stating "we want religion freedom".

Personally, with my play style, this limits how I play. I usually either try to spread my religion (which, using Inquisitors, makes this much more fun) or I go Free Religion and try to get as many as possible. I use that as a means to get happiness in my empires. This is very useful when playing as a small civ and not wanting to conquer everyone or trade (and rely on) with other civs.

I feel like this option funnels my play style into one groove. Get a religion and spread it and use Inquisitors to purge the infidels

I do, however, feel that they way religion is implemented in the early to mid game is awesome. Unlike in vanilla civ where all religions get spread everywhere. I never liked that.

 

[Jaybe]

I feel like this option funnels my play style into one groove. Get a religion and spread it and use Inquisitors to purge the infidels

Well, the problem is that Hephmod emphasizes realism and historical flavor. It doesn't claim to make it easy or simple. Also, instead of it funneling your play style into one groove, it should be nudging you into trying out different alternative ways of doing things (even if you find out that they are a bad alternative).

 

[Stevenpfo]

Well, the problem is that Hephmod emphasizes realism and historical flavor. It doesn't claim to make it easy or simple. Also, instead of it funneling your play style into one groove, it should be nudging you into trying out different alternative ways of doing things (even if you find out that they are a bad alternative).

I understand all of the above and it has allowed me to try out many new ways of doing things as well as adding a lot to my game. It was actually from the realism perspective that I was wondering why having Free Religion would make people angry. I can see it making the people who were previously a member of the state religion angry, but all the others?

I can understand (from a balance point of view) why this was done. Previously Free Religion allowed you to select it and it made a majority of civs less mad at you as well as giving you a lot more happiness on top of a research bonus.

Maybe it's just the wording of the civic and the people complaining that bothers me. Asking for religious freedom by demanding a new civic only to get it and get angry for the same reason. It could probably be solved by changing a few words. Semantics really.

 

[Jaybe]

Perhaps it is the insulation you experience up north with "freer" religion. But there is also the various sects (e.g., Protestant/Catholic, Christian/Islam/Jewish, etc.). Religious conflict in Northern Ireland, the Middle East, SE Asia, ad infinitum. Wherever or whenever people with different beliefs think THEIR beliefs are correct and others are NOT ...
and unfortunately, the people who are really inclusive (rather than exclusive) are relatively rare. Witness that former President of ours in the U.S.

I think that Heph has struck a quite reasonable balance. I do admit it takes a bit getting used to, and you might observe earlier in this thread where I had the same shock experience with Free Religion (EDIT: see posts 153 & 155). Perhaps more (and WELL thought out) Events regarding periods of religious harmony and hostility would add immersion to the simulation aspect of the game (but alienate more people who are into the "gaming" aspect).

--
My main concern is the AI's lack of competence with the Revolution mod's component. In my latest 0.9c game, most every civ was still in SLAVERY in the 22nd CENTURY CE (circa turn 920 with huge/marathon), for crying out loud! This is not conducive to high populations and national harmony. (Personally, I didn't use slavery or caste system at all.)

 

[Stevenpfo]

From my most recent games (I tend to rip through them fast until I get to modern times and decide I can win easily then start again ... Maybe I need to move up in difficulty...), i've noticed that if you start with more civs ( a lot more) revolutions are kept to a minimum. There are uprisings and a few new civs pop up here and there. Try playing with the normal amount of civs the game prescribes and it makes for an interesting game.

At first the revolutions and my people were quite the experience. Until I realized that I must completely conquer the other civ and then purge all non-religions.

Which brings me to my next issue. Inquisitors. There needs to be a middle ground between only having 3 of them or getting them automated. I have no doubt getting them automated is a lot of work so I just need to find out where the number allowed is stored. I downloaded the Inquisitor mod to see where they store but Heph's Mod keeps it somewhere else.

I really like the way the mod also balances health/happiness. I find that as a small civ you can still get larger cities.

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A side note: The most interesting game i've played is one on a large map with minimal amount of civs with raging barbarians. There ended up being twice as many civs as I normally play with.