Heroes

[strategyonly]

SO, I think that Sgslick, is suggesting that Heroes are defined with some heroic promotions and then can't get any more of the heroic promotions only normal. Which means that teh heroic promotions are not available through experince at all.

Otherwise each hero will need to be its own combat class and each promotion made available to suitable combat classes.

Well... you could group those combat classes a bit at least. Warrior Hero, Healer Hero, etc...

Or you could make them all available to the hero combat class and list off the combat classes that the promotion could NOT apply to, narrowing the field to any degree you'd like. We already have a secondary CC on all heroes and we could narrow the field on these promos in that manner - it might be able to reach the definition level SGT Slick is suggesting anyhow.

Yeah BUT either way, wont it be a HUGE undertaking, heck i have like 72ish CIVs Cultures i need Heroes and Generals for NOW?? That will take me about three years alone. . . Takes me about 1 - 1 1/2 weeks per culture just doing the research on them.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I could help with some CC access crafting eventually. I'll include it on the things to evaluate list for when I get around to a full review of all promotions which is coming up.

 

[strategyonly]

I could help with some CC access crafting eventually. I'll include it on the things to evaluate list for when I get around to a full review of all promotions which is coming up.

OK but i'd rather YOU work on the Combat stuff then the equipment stuff FIRST!! and ONLY those for now, thx.

 

[Sgtslick]

Is there a way to make these heroic promotions cost more experience? Perhaps this would be a simpler / less time consuming way to go about it?

If a hero could maybe earn 1 extra promotion through experience throughout a game, but the 2nd costs like another 100 xp points or something, that would be a good balance move imo.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Is there a way to make these heroic promotions cost more experience? Perhaps this would be a simpler / less time consuming way to go about it?

If a hero could maybe earn 1 extra promotion through experience throughout a game, but the 2nd costs like another 100 xp points or something, that would be a good balance move imo.

No... promotion earning is based on earning a level and I really can't think of a way to enforce one promo requiring more xp than another. Besides, they're Heroes. I don't find it imbalanced. I figured you had a good point to make heroes more restricted to stay within boundaries of their particular 'flavor' though.

 

[Yudishtira]

No... promotion earning is based on earning a level and I really can't think of a way to enforce one promo requiring more xp than another. Besides, they're Heroes. I don't find it imbalanced. I figured you had a good point to make heroes more restricted to stay within boundaries of their particular 'flavor' though.

The Heroic promos represent people in the hero's retinue, so going outside their flavour is not inappropriate there.

You have combat strength and Combat Class to keep the hero themselves within their traditional area of expertise. If you want to keep Pocahontas within her flavour, make her strength 3 or 5... At strength 18 she is outside her flavour already. It's not promotions that do that.

 

[Sgtslick]

No... promotion earning is based on earning a level and I really can't think of a way to enforce one promo requiring more xp than another. Besides, they're Heroes. I don't find it imbalanced. I figured you had a good point to make heroes more restricted to stay within boundaries of their particular 'flavor' though.

I think they are both good reasons, limiting them so they stay within the boundaries of their particular flavor and limiting them because without limitation they become even more powerful (I would argue far too powerful).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Heroes have only two uses, build the Achievements and become Military Instructors. This means that you end up with highly experienced new units. This is very unbalanced. That is why I suggested that if you aren't playing with the Great Commanders option on that all the heroes that can't build the achievements be turned off.

 

[strategyonly]

I think they are both good reasons, limiting them so they stay within the boundaries of their particular flavor and limiting them because without limitation they become even more powerful (I would argue far too powerful).

Can you do me a favor then, do one General and a Leader of a Culture, so i know what you are talking about, these words are only confusing me, sorry

Heroes have only two uses, build the Achievements and become Military Instructors. This means that you end up with highly experienced new units. This is very unbalanced. That is why I suggested that if you aren't playing with the Great Commanders option on that all the heroes that can't build the achievements be turned off.

That must be done where then, is it dll or python, or what??

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

That must be done where then, is it dll or python, or what??

XML. In the heroes who can't build an achievement add

		<UnitInfo>
			<Class>hero</Class>
			<Type>hero</Type>
			[B]<PrereqGameOption>GAMEOPTION_GREAT_COMMANDERS</PrereqGameOption>[/B]
...
		<UnitInfo>

 

[Faustmouse]

Heroes have only two uses, build the Achievements and become Military Instructors. This means that you end up with highly experienced new units. This is very unbalanced. That is why I suggested that if you aren't playing with the Great Commanders option on that all the heroes that can't build the achievements be turned off.

What? If you have a Hero, promote it to Heoric II. He is so much stronger with the right promotions that you can easiliy being "locked" in GAs for 1000s of turns. That's even stronger on slow gamespeeds. So I think Heoric II should be reduced to 1% GA chance or have a cooldown.

 

[strategyonly]

What? If you have a Hero, promote it to Heroic II. He is so much stronger with the right promotions that you can easily being "locked" in GAs for 1000s of turns. That's even stronger on slow gamespeeds. So I think Heroic II should be reduced to 1% GA chance or have a cooldown.

Its already at 2% (i believe or 5) and it cant be reduced any lower for some odd reason, i tried and all it does is the exact opposite, higher it when trying to do so

 

[Faustmouse]

It is at 5% right now. Then you should give it even higher requirements. Heroic I and Str IV is not really hard to get. And limit it to heros ONLY, not every lead by general unit.

 

[strategyonly]

It is at 5% right now. Then you should give it even higher requirements. Heroic I and Str IV is not really hard to get. And limit it to heros ONLY, not every lead by general unit.

I will give it another Preq then of Drill4, that should take awhile then.

 

[Nimek]

Because there is no SO for a while

CAn we make all heroes optional

If any XML tag should be added to all heroes to make it possible i will add it.
Let me now how this tag should look.

Thank you

@SO
No offense I wish you all the best and hope that you will be at good condition and health soon.

 

[Sparth]

Do AI uses Heroes units?

 

[Nimek]

Yes it is but it is not very effective at it

 

[Yudishtira]

The AI hardly ever builds culture wonders, and when they do they are willing to sell them. I bought a culture for 5gpt from a civ that was 1 turn away from building one of its heroes...

I have about 50 heroes and it's not good for musketman morale knowing that Pocahontas keeps fighting their battles for them...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Because there is no SO for a while

CAn we make all heroes optional

If any XML tag should be added to all heroes to make it possible i will add it.
Let me now how this tag should look.

Thank you

@SO
No offense I wish you all the best and hope that you will be at good condition and health soon.

How optional do we want them? Do we want a Heroes option or can they go under one or two other options?

I suggested that the ones that can't make achievements should only be available if the Great Commanders option was selected. As the achievement ones are useful for building style games where as the rest just mean many Military Instructors

The way to achieve this is to use the unit XML, for example add the following to each hero

<OnGameOptions>
     <GameOptionType>GAMEOPTION_GREAT_COMMANDERS</GameOptionType>
</OnGameOptions>

I think you can just add an option to the GameInfo/civ4gameoptions.xml and then use that in the units file. it used to require dll work but I think Afforess made it work without so we could try out stuff.

So

<OnGameOptions>
     <GameOptionType>GAMEOPTION_HEROES</GameOptionType>
     <GameOptionType>GAMEOPTION_GREAT_COMMANDERS</GameOptionType>
</OnGameOptions>

for units that don't build achievements and

<OnGameOptions>
     <GameOptionType>GAMEOPTION_HEROES</GameOptionType>
</OnGameOptions>

for those that do would be good in my opinion.

 

[strategyonly]

Yes it is but it is not very effective at it

The AI hardly ever builds culture wonders, and when they do they are willing to sell them. I bought a culture for 5gpt from a civ that was 1 turn away from building one of its heroes...

I have about 50 heroes and it's not good for musketman morale knowing that Pocahontas keeps fighting their battles for them...

Thats because Koshling hasn't gotten completely around to do these YET. When he does they will be more effective.

Rather than an option why not just make each as they are separate units, with certain strengths and weaknesses. just like a regular UU unit. Remembering now, that THESE more or less are individual units that LEAD and ARMY and for the most part won the battles, except for the losses of course.

Why not go through the thread and see what is the most viable part that has been written about.

And whom ever gets more than 4 Heroes is doing GREAT, i can hardly get 5 cultures per game i play, and Heroes are far and inbetween. Infact the one game i am playing i am in Renaissance Era and have 5 cultures and NO, i say again NO Hero units. I am just sayin'.. DH is now in charge, so i will leave it to him to decide.

Hey DH this is your 1st BIG decision, have at it