Heroes

strategyonly · Feb 20, 2013

I think i might have to agree, BUT, now with the implementation of extra unitcombats, i think i am willing to give EACH hero a set of these also, that way his promotion will be greater also and get some of the more qualified ones, so to say??? This way he/she wont need the multiple times per turn at all.

Ideas, suggestions on this??

strategyonly · Feb 23, 2013

see above FIRST

Now also how about starting them on certain turn date in the game also??

Smikis · Feb 23, 2013

i feel heroes are too weak now, obvious thing ill build great wonder or what those called.. accomplishments? after that ill just join city as great person , +3 or around that number in strength doesn't help too much , most buildings and extra xp gets ignored by heroes too, was it always like that? before i remember getting lots of promotions on them now it feels you are lucky if you get 2 vs some units getting 5 promotions a lone from buildings and another 5+ from exp
even if hero can kill couple units or attack multiple times , you better off with permanent bonus in city
if your hero can take city with 100% defence and 5-10 units, you are so far ahead in tech you could faceroll with general units too

Yudishtira · Feb 24, 2013

Smikis said:
i feel heroes are too weak now, obvious thing ill build great wonder or what those called.. accomplishments? after that ill just join city as great person , +3 or around that number in strength doesn't help too much , most buildings and extra xp gets ignored by heroes too, was it always like that? before i remember getting lots of promotions on them now it feels you are lucky if you get 2 vs some units getting 5 promotions a lone from buildings and another 5+ from exp
even if hero can kill couple units or attack multiple times , you better off with permanent bonus in city
if your hero can take city with 100% defence and 5-10 units, you are so far ahead in tech you could faceroll with general units too

Yeah my 'heroes' are all cowering in fear of the latest newly-built Warlord Chief who has 75% Strength bonus before he's done anything.

strategyonly · Feb 27, 2013

strategyonly said:
I think i might have to agree, BUT, now with the implementation of extra unitcombats, i think i am willing to give EACH hero a set of these also, that way his promotion will be greater also and get some of the more qualified ones, so to say??? This way he/she wont need the multiple times per turn at all.
Ideas, suggestions on this??

I didnt get any response so i will try it this way:

Spoiler :

Thunderbrd · Feb 27, 2013

I agree that its a good idea to give them a sub-combat that represents the type of unit they generally are, such as melee, archery, whatever they primarily fight as. I wouldn't know half the names on that list at the moment enough to make a suggestion on what to make them though.

Nimek · Apr 5, 2013

Romulus have diplomat subcombat class that gives only silver tongue promotion.

Lutainent promotion gives heroes ability to attack multiple times per turn. This is overpowered I think.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 28, 2013

As posted on general discussions:-

Nimek said:
Poin byt poin what is mine suggestion

1 Remove great achivements from heroes and add it to GP (marge with platyping enhaced GP)
2 Remove heroes ability to join to city as Great person (overpowered - too easy to get ex 20 great military instructors)
3 Make heros to be not buildable in cities
4 Add option to GG that he can be converted to hero unit. (will consume GG)

Thanks to that heroes become strictly combat units and become rare like they should be becasue only GG can build them.

I get far to many GG's and too many Heroes. I don't play with Great Commanders on but here is my counter suggestion. I think Achievements are too OP for GG's but are not too OP in the game so I would not change them.

1. Great Generals same as currently except

upgrade to heroes
don't have names so you don't upgrade "Horatio Nelson" to "Sparticus"
can do ~~Doctrines and~~ Traditions from RI. (The doctrine promotions are not special in C2C, anyone can get them.) In RI Traditions are national wonders but I don't think we want them as such in C2C so I would implement them slightly differently.
can do Platyping's and C2C enhanced GG stuff
can do new C2C
- "Tradition - Hunting" gives free Hunting Tradition building in all cities. The Hunting Tradition building should no longer go obsolete, at least not until a WWII or later tech.
- "Tradition - Ocean Hunting" gives free Ocean Hunting Tradition in all cities (allows us to split the hunting tradition promotions into one for land and one for sea). Will probably replace one of the two current sea buildings.
- "Doctrine - Hunting" gives Master Hunter in all cities.

2. Heroes same as currently except

can't settle as a Military Instructor but can as the others that they currently can.
can settle as a new specialist Heroic Legend which gives a boost to defense and gives +1 GG point for each successful combat.

3. Achievements, as I said they stay the same but we need at least two more military ones, one for Air Forces and one for Space.

Thunderbrd · May 29, 2013

I take it we'd limit the heroes they can upgrade into to heroes you can access by the culture resources you currently possess? I think it very well might be interesting to make Heroes stem purely from converting a GG into one.

But this could certainly give us trouble when we split GGs into 5 types...

Dancing Hoskuld · May 29, 2013

I assumed heroes would still need the cultural stuff they do now. This will reduce the number of Great Military Instructors I have in a city slightly

TowerWizard · May 29, 2013

I think that Nimek has the right idea, except maybe the thing about not being able to build them from cities. But I think they should only be combat units, ie no achievements and no merge into city.

However, if achievements can be built by ordinary great people, then they are too easy to build. Here is an idea: make the achievements into rewards for successful game-play each time a new era begins, depending on what you have been doing. Have you build lots of ships and harbors/ports? Seafaring achievement. Built many units and won lots of battles? Military achievement. You get the idea.

Faustmouse · Jun 7, 2013

Strategyonly asked me to post all redundant Hero requirements here again, so here we go:

Spoiler :

Probably add some more in the future if I found some.

Note: If a Hero prereq is redundant because of the reqs for it's culture, please only change that when you are absolutely sure that this hero will definetly stick to that culture and that the culture won't change it's requirements!

DRJ · Jun 7, 2013

- Frederick Barbarossa (Hero) at Literature, also requires German [Printing Press] -> Literature redundant. Use Printing Press as prereq

This seems wrong to me. Barbarossa was a medieval figure and the printing press came like 400 years later. While one could argue that it was only then when the old "Barbarossa legend" got popular, I would deny that because I know it was very popular before printed books by oral tradition and also because why should a 400 year old "legend" be represented by a Hero that is alive on the battlefield and doing stuff?!

Yeah, for those who know the legend of Barbarossa, the eye-catching irony would be that it says "he sleeps in a mountain, only to return later, to lead the germans again in the future"

But come on this is no fantasy mod (did I already mention that I hate fantasy?^^), so for the sake of realism, I suggest to have german culture be available with another tech related to the time when the "holy roman empire of germanic nation" reached predominant status in Europe: Engineering or Chivalry (castles and stuff is the time of Barbarossa + germans are well know for their engineering skills, even today)

Faustmouse · Jun 7, 2013

Also, I THINK I saw another Barbarossa that requires a different Culture. Not 100% sure.

Who is in charge of Cultures? Is it Hydro? If so, it would be cool if he could provide a list what the requirements for a culture is and WHY it is. Then we could go over it and see if it makes sense in a logic way and also in a historic timeline way.

strategyonly · Jun 7, 2013

Faustmouse said:
Also, I THINK I saw another Barbarossa that requires a different Culture. Not 100% sure.

Who is in charge of Cultures? Is it Hydro? If so, it would be cool if he could provide a list what the requirements for a culture is and WHY it is. Then we could go over it and see if it makes sense in a logic way and also in a historic timeline way.

Look at Hydro's signature, cultures are listed there for requirements, but not Heroes.

Get with him also on that German change DRJ mentioned, thx.

Hydromancerx · Jun 7, 2013

Faustmouse said:
Who is in charge of Cultures? Is it Hydro? If so, it would be cool if he could provide a list what the requirements for a culture is and WHY it is. Then we could go over it and see if it makes sense in a logic way and also in a historic timeline way.

Yeah I do cultures and check my signature for them (like SO said). As for WHY, well it a number of factors. Where they live (ex. Inuits in the Ice), an important resource to their culture (ex. Mongols with Horses), an important tech to the culture (ex. Cetacea Sapien with Species Uplifting), sometimes a civic (ex. American with Democracy) and also a native culture or combo of them (ex. Australian is European and Oceanian).

I try to link them to periods of time when their empire was active and also have split up some empires into periods such as Roman, Holy Roman and Italian. Since there are limited numbers of map resources some cultures get resources that might not be super important such as Polish has Bison resource. The reason is its one of the rare places in European that still has European Bison. Thus its one of the only European cultures that has anything to do with Bison.

The units a civ get also influences what tech and resource they get. Sometimes they don't match up and I have to sort it out. There are still some like this, which I have not sorted out yet. But I am trying.

In short I want every culture to require at least 1 tech, 1 resource and 1 native culture. Also have at least 1 unit.

As for my view on Heroes, personally I think their graphics are better suited as culture units. I would much rather have Heroes as generic units with special names. that way all cultures could have one. However heroes are strategyonly's project and he can do what he wants with them.

strategyonly · Jun 15, 2013

Hydromancerx said:
As for my view on Heroes, ~~personally I think their graphics are better suited as culture units. I would much rather have Heroes as generic units with special names.~~ that way all cultures could have one. However heroes are strategyonly's project and he can do what he wants with them.

Well my intent is, almost that, but i want a Hero in ALL cultures (minimum of 2 ea).

PKSRoman · Jun 16, 2013

heroes should be like additional trait ( Leader:Hero) who give the unit additional bonuses

first u build a hero who can fight and add to unit ( but again: only this who he be leader in reality )
other options like add pernamently to city or other is pure absurd, create 20 hero units and u have nice boost in whole time of game especially in ancient/medival

strategyonly · Jun 16, 2013

PKSRoman said:
heroes should be like additional trait ( Leader:Hero) who give the unit additional bonuses

first u build a hero who can fight and add to unit ( but again: only this who he be leader in reality )
other options like add permanently to city or other is pure absurd, create 20 hero units and u have nice boost in whole time of game especially in ancient/medieval

No offense but if you played the game you'd know you will never get that many Heroes in Ancient and for that matter Medieval Era, heck your lucky if you get that many in a whole game, i presently am in the Industrial Era, and i only have 4 Heroes, Its just luck of the draw and what you have for resources, and if that is absurd, then so be it..

PKSRoman · Jun 16, 2013

sry, internet connection fail and dubled my posts

strategyonly said:
No offense but if you played the game you'd know you will never get that many Heroes in Ancient and for that matter Medieval Era,

marathon gametime
big map

conquer neighbors who are from different nation from different continents
multioption for building "nations"

every nation give hero,even 2 sometimes
10 nation buildings, some around 20 heroes who add bonuses

Heroes

C2C Supreme Commander

C2C Supreme Commander

Chieftain

Spiritual/Creative

C2C Supreme Commander

C2C War Dog

Emperor

Deity

C2C War Dog

Deity

Warlord

Deity

Hedonist

Deity

C2C Supreme Commander

C2C Modder

C2C Supreme Commander

Prince

C2C Supreme Commander

Prince

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