Heroin

People turn to drugs when they feel there world does not give them enough of what they want, so they escape by taking them and usually end up destroying their mind and their body in the process. It is a sad side effect of an imperfect world.

Unfortunatley I don't know the answer to this problem - as long as there is sadness there is going to be a demand for drugs and as long as the demand is so high, only the absolute tightest run totalitarian society will keep drugs away from people. so what is the greater evil, I ask you: No freedom at all or tolerance of drug use?
 
Originally posted by Håkan Eriksson


Yeah, and I have the right to call you stupid becouse of your opinion.

I'm just so sick of people who don't know how things work have their own very good opinion that they throw in the face of us that has been there.
Like you do, with USA bashing and politics? :rolleyes:
That last sentance fits you to a "t".

Cool out and discuss rationally, Håkan.

Enough of this trolling, you been at it for a few days now, enough.

AoA
 
People should be free to take drugs...by making them illegal you benefit criminals and drive prices up so crime has to be commited on a large scale (some addicts steal to get £1000 quid a week ...and that through fences) to get a fix, drive it down and the drug related crime will drop. I don't give a damn if people chose to take it and hurt themselves etc, it is when they go and commit crime versus the rest of us that it matters.

If people chose to **** themselves then they will and it doesn't matter if it is legal or not...the consequences in the main would probably be better if it was legal for the simple reasons I gave.


People kill themselves with cigarettes...just as with heroine it is your life live it how you chose...so get a grip Hakon, the legal/illegal debate mattered not in where your friend took himself.
 
As for this government control on peoples decisions...get a grip.
 
"But you don't get it! If drugs were legalized that would mean that the goverment thinks it's OK to take drugs!!!"

No, actually it would be government not getting involved in individuals' decisions. Not the same as condonement, not even in the same ballpark. That which governs best, governs least. Let PEOPLE be responsible for themselves for once....

"The goverment would say that it's ok for people to become addicts and maybe die."

I suspect government would work closely with rehab programs upon any legalization of addictive substances--not force people into them, but make their services available to more people. There are many good programs in the private sector too.

"THE GOVERMENT SHOULDN'T SAY: IT'S OK TO BUY DRUGS, SO THAT YOU BECOME AN ADDICT AND SPEND ALL YOUR MONEY TO BUY DRUGS UNTILL YOU DIE OF AN OVERDOSE!"

No, the government would not be saying ANYTHING pro or con about drug use if they legalized them. The government would say that that is now up to the individual, and whatever natural consequences arise from use will be up to the user to deal with--let the user be warned.

"MOST DEATHS FROM HEROIN DO NOT OCCUR BECAUSE IT IS MIXED WITH SOMETHING.

"MOST DEATHS OCCUR because heroin abusers do not know the actual strength of the drug they are at risk of overdose or death."

Not knowing statistics on this (they are in no way relevant to my argument), I would say that legalized substances would have the same truth-in-labelling requirement as anything else (whether they be sold in the private sector or by the government), and the user would know the contents of the dosage to the milligram, with percentage breakdowns.... STANDARDISATION, you know? Wouldn't stop SOME people from overdosing (some people just forget their own limitations, or are suicidal in an indifferent sort of way...), but those who did because of an unexpectedly purer cut, or from other stuff mixed in, wouldn't under standardization.

"One of the most detrimental long-term effects of heroin is addiction itself. Addiction is a chronic, relapsing disease, characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use,"

And as it's illegal, that "drug seeking" becomes a lot more expensive and risky. Does THAT deter the addict? No! So since he's probably paying ten times more for his fix, he holds up people like me (when I was a cab driver this happened) or peaceful store employees or whomever. THAT is where a person's right to a habit interferes with my right to safety--and legalization would actually reduce these incidents greatly if not eliminate them.

Of course, our CIA for years took cuts from the cocaine trade in Latin America (hell they probably still do)--I guess illegal drug trade was GOOD business for them too, huh? Don't tell me ANYTHING about how the government feels about drug use....

"and by neurochemical and molecular changes in the brain. Heroin also produces profound degrees of tolerance and physical dependence, which are also powerful motivating factors for compulsive use and abuse. As with abusers of any addictive drug, heroin abusers gradually spend more and more time and energy obtaining and using the drug. Once they are addicted, the heroin abusers' primary purpose in life becomes seeking and using drugs. The drugs literally change their brains."

Heroin is a horrible drug. So is cocaine. I've made a decision not to use either one of them, because "I know people" too.... But that decision had NOTHING to do with what the law happened to be (I DID do coke occasionally before I got tired of the scene, never got addicted but I probably could have had I kept with it). In the end, people who want to use DO, illegally or not. The law is not a deterrent.

I DO smoke pot, and frankly I prefer it over alcohol because alcohol makes me silly and stupid. Alcohol can be addictive, pot is not. I can go without it if it ain't available for awhile.

By the way, the story behind illegal cannabis had to do with one newspaper baron William Randolph Hearst creating a scare to save his pulp-paper mills from a new method that would make hemp paper cheaper.


You know, Hakan, what you went through watching your friend slowly kill himself was horrible. I know, I had an uncle who drank himself to death. Same type of slow destruction....

But assuming that heroin is illegal in Sweden, you have to know that laws against drug use IN NO WAY helped your best friend. So that is not the issue then, is it? The issue is one that every individual alone, or with the support of family or friends, must come to grips with for himself. Just like alcohol use. Your friend failed in that, and there was nothing you could have done. If a person is self-destructive and determined, they WILL destroy themselves unless something BIG changes their mind. The law is not that "big" in this case....

But ultimately, the individual has a right to destroy himself if that is what he wants.
 
Originally posted by Håkan Eriksson
But you don't get it! If drugs were legalized that would mean that the goverment thinks it's OK to take drugs!!! The goverment would say that it's ok for people to become addicts and maybe die. THE GOVERMENT SHOULDN'T SAY: IT'S OK TO BUY DRUGS, SO THAT YOU BECOME AN ADDICT AND SPEND ALL YOUR MONEY TO BUY DRUGS UNTILL YOU DIE OF AN OVERDOSE!(..)
Chill out, Håkan. (or how dya spell it)
All drugs should be legalized. Sure, they are poison, they kill people, etc.
BUT people has right to die stupidly if he wishes so.
Those people who use drugs are pathetic morons.
Pathetic morons deserve to die. When legalizing drugs, there should be
some way to clearly represintive that they kill you.

(PS: IF SOMEONE IS SAYING THAT 'SOFT' DRUGS WILL NOT KILL YOU,
I DO NOT BELIEVE THEM. I'M A VICTIM OF FINNISH DRUG-PROPAGANDA
AND I DO BELIEVE TO IT. DRUGS WILL KILL YOU)

my :midfinger to drugs and that kind of stuff.
 
"(PS: IF SOMEONE IS SAYING THAT 'SOFT' DRUGS WILL NOT KILL YOU,
I DO NOT BELIEVE THEM. I'M A VICTIM OF FINNISH DRUG-PROPAGANDA
AND I DO BELIEVE TO IT. DRUGS WILL KILL YOU)"

By "soft" drugs if you mean marijuana (cannabis sativa), then you (and your propaganda) are mistaken. I challenge ANYONE to find a documented case of someone "overdosing" on weed--it's impossible!

The legal drug alcohol kills people. Heroin kills people. Cocaine kills people. Marijuana does not kill people. Them are simple facts.

But either way, I'm impressed that you see that there is no connection between your opinion of drug use and the question of legality. That's something not too many people see, and for a 14-year-old I'm impressed that you DO see it. And I mean that (our other disagreements on this forum aside)!

Take care, you seem to have a healthy attitude about drug use--keep it that way, and stay healthy!

:D
 
Allan said a lot of it for me but:

Dont you think if the government were in control of drugs it would be harder to get overdosed (and stop the problems from mixing it with something which I still claim cause the majority of DEATHS)

The government can still run anti drugs programs just like it does anti-smoking programs now: the money from drugs could go into rehab cantres and anti-drug campaigns instead of into the hands of criminals.

YOU appear to want it in the hands of criminals: you really dont get it.
 
Allan taking pot is not too great an idea considering its illegal and causes long term memory pobems (this is certainly true) and loss of sense of smell: however I drink so I cannot really hold it against you.
 
Drugs are ****... pure and simple, any dumb fool knows that. But so are all the ways they get to us, to the people that use them and the people who push them...

I have a sister and a brother in law - both junkies, both in jail. Both parents....

Been on the H for the past 7 years, have two children - 6 and 4, beautiful little boys who me and my partner have looked after for a long time as a result of being jailed. They have both (the parents) OD'd at least 12 times each and been declared dead three times... Every day while they are out of jail you are expecting to get the call...

My partner Kelly who is the blood relative has been with them both while undergoing de-tox... and it's not a pretty sight... You should have at least some empathy towards these people... they get stuck in a rut one day and end up dead in the gutter with a needle in their arm because someone wanted to score an extra couple of dollars by mixing with omo or cutting strichnine instead of standard stuff... These people aren't evil, they don't deserve what they get... No one deserves to go through this...
Doesn't matter where you are from or ghow much money you have, how much support you have from friends and family, It can still happen...

I have seen people thats parents are rich as hell and never spend any times with their chidren go over the edge... I have also seen people from the average aussie family with a caring, loving family going down this path as well... it is totally irrellevant... For all you know your parents could be using and you will never know, or your children may secretly be using... At least up until you are called to the morgue to ID their body.... This is not something for ANYONE to scoff at and make claims of a simple solution....

It may help to legalize it, it may not... It hasn't helped with Cigarettes, but they are still illegal until people are 18... and they usually get hooked before then, so technically, still illegal...
We just need to be as vigilant as possible and NEVER think that it can't happen to you, think like that and it will and you will have no chance in dealing with it....

Empathy goes a long way my civvy friends...

Morgasshk.
 
"Allan taking pot is not too great an idea considering its illegal and causes long term memory pobems (this is certainly true) and loss of sense of smell:"

It's good for sex though--I can f*ck FOREVER on pot--and sex is the greatest cardiovascular exercise around! ;)

Another problem though is the preferred delivery method (smoking)--hard on the lungs, just like cigarettes (actually harsher PER DOSE than cigarettes, but you usually don't smoke 20 joints a day like you do cigarettes if you're the average smoker).

Don't know about memory from personal use--I drink gingko-and-ginseng tea quite regularly, which may offset some of that. Then again, my Mom's side of the family is prone to Alzheimer's, while my father's side are generally sharp as a knife in their old age (the ones that don't drink much anyway)--who knows which way my own genes go....

"however I drink so I cannot really hold it against you."

To each his own. I used to get pretty blasted, then my uncle died of acute liver poisoning (they call it "acute" even though his liver was pretty f*cked for many years), and I got tired of it too. Not being an alcoholic, I will still drink sociably on occasion (probably a total of three times within the last year, mainly at weddings, and one or two drinks each time), but I just don't like being uncoordinated and loose at the mouth--which is what being drunk does to me. Pot doesn't do anything like that, it's entirely different, and for me a better "buzz". But again, to each his own....
 
Singapore has some pretty good laws I think, but what happens when you get somebody who is innocent?

Oops!;)

Anyway, legalization gives the power to the people. Wanna be a junkie? No problem Dude! Just pay the 45% sales tax on the drug of your choice and smoke or poke your way out of the human race.

I've tried a few drugs, got hooked on one (nicotine), loved one a bit too much(heroin), and pretty much went through some harsh times kicking these nasty habits.

At the end of the day, it is all in your head. You can live without any drug.

Period.
 
i dont think that heroin and cocain should be legalized but these "lighter" drugs like weed and mushrooms and stuff like that should be legalized. These are not very dangerous drugs you know. :smoke:
 
Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Like you do, with USA bashing and politics? :rolleyes:
That last sentance fits you to a "t".

Yeah you are probebly right.


Btw, you americans use the word, bashing. I'm not sure how to translate it but I don't think it sounds like wath I'm doing. I just say wath I feel, no matter if it's about the US, poletics, Afgahnistan or anything.
 
Regarding pot alothas been sad, but not this I think.


The main active chemical in marijuana is THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol). In 1988, it was discovered that the membranes of certain nerve cells contain protein receptors that bind THC. Once securely in place, THC kicks off a series of cellular reactions that ultimately lead to the high that users experience when they smoke marijuana. The short term effects of marijuana use include problems with memory and learning; distorted
perception; difficulty in thinking and problem-solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate, anxiety, and panic attacks.



Also... you should never take pot when you are pregnant. But I guess that might not be any big problem for you.........
 
looks like someone has been using the dictionary..............
and what u described is what we in sweden so beautifully call
"hasch flum"(stoned)
u also laugh alot, (when u r stoned) so its funny to be (with) stoned people. plus everybody know about thc and learning disorders and so on.....
 
Originally posted by .:KNAS:.
looks like someone has been using the dictionary..............


Actually it should be learned from school chemistry studies. :rolleyes:
 
Just to have additional view, let's listen my mothers anti-drug campaing.
My mother said me this:
I just heard that if you eat hassis (2 s:s), you became stupid,
hassis has some chemical what will melt your brain.
hassis and heroin are bad drugs. If somebody ever offers you hassis
or heroin or aapium, pe proud to say reject...(and on and on...)
It's becoming anti-anti-drug campaign. The worst case is, that the
schools also bring some policemen to talk about drugs. They're talk is almost identical.

Oh well... Just to say how funny Finnish anti-drug proganda sometimes is...
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
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