Heroin

Sounds like the D.A.R.E. program in the US Juize...

Well, I must agree with Kitten and Flatlander in ways... Using drugs is natural selection in a way. You know it's stupid and it's bad and it's illegal but you still do it? Being hooked is no excuse. Get help. You don't, you die. Simple really. And lowering costs would help with crime, at least drug related crime definitely. Don't f*** with me, I won't f*** with you. Do your drugs, hurt yourself, just leave me out of it.

And like Flatlander said, mental strength. No one NEEDS drugs. Not talkin prescription.

I've tried everything under the sun including the ridiculous crap, and the reason I don't now is because I realized what I typed up above. They say God helps those who help themselves. With drugs, YOU the user needs to take the first step. You don't want to quit, ain't nothin gonna make you.
 
No drake - drugs are the preferred way of being a looser worldwide.

And Hakan - are you now for or agianst legalisation?
 
Originally posted by Flatlander Fox
Singapore has some pretty good laws I think, but what happens when you get somebody who is innocent?

Innocent? If you carry drugs, you are guilty. The gallows are awaiting you. Period.
There'll be a trial and all that but it's pretty hard to plead innocence when drugs packed in compact plastic bags are found strapped onto your body. Anyway I think there's a certain statutory amt so you're still safe if you are carrying below this amt. Maybe you can claim it's someone else or that you've been framed, I dunno. If found guilty, anyone would be hanged, even Westerners.
A couple of yrs back, there's this guy who smuggled in drugs packed in condoms which he swallowed and left in his stomach or something. Then the condoms burst and the guy died immediately from overdose. :rolleyes:
If you are a drug addict, you'll be sent for drug rehab. There's a distinction betw drug addict and drug pusher you know.
 
I am in favor of the 'de-criminalization' of certain recreational drugs such as marijuana and other 'soft' drugs. Please allow me to explain before anyone gets riled up.;)

There are too many people in prison in the US right now. Many are in on drug-possession charges. Not distibuting, just using, and that seems to be a waste of lives and tax dollars to keep them there.

I cannot imagine going to prison for an 'offense' just as innocent as having a beer after work. It makes no sense. We got 'tough on drugs' to the point of blinding ourselves of what would really be in everyones best interest. Prison is for people that cannot 'behave' rationaly in society. Murderers, rapists, robbers. These people belong there. Pot-heads do not.

There would have to be heavy restrictions, more so than alcohol, if 'legalization' were to take place. At the very least, these 'offenders' should be going to counseling centers instead of prison.

'Hard' drugs, such as heroin and cocaine, to name a few, are not in the same class. These are really dangerous. They destroy users lives and everyone's around them. These users should also be recieving treatment (like boot-camp!) instaed of incarceration.

Selling these drugs, is in my opinion, is evil. Lock em up! Some users don't have a choice but to get that next fix. Physical and mental addiction is cruel and insidious. But selling poison should be punished.

Maybe thats too idealic on my part, but something different needs to be done. The current way of dealing with the problem in America is not working.
 
Originally posted by kittenOFchaos
People should be free to take drugs...by making them illegal you benefit criminals and drive prices up so crime has to be commited on a large scale (some addicts steal to get £1000 quid a week ...and that through fences) to get a fix, drive it down and the drug related crime will drop. I don't give a damn if people chose to take it and hurt themselves etc, it is when they go and commit crime versus the rest of us that it matters.

Hurray, you got it correctly.

First legilize drugs, so the crime scene will be gone and then educate the people to stop usings drugs or dont start using drugs. Because we in holland have proved that people with a drug habbit can normally work and earn a normal living. Because we got a programm here in Rotterdam/the Netherlands were people with a drug habbit work for the city goverment.

And also we should help the people in soutern America with extra money so they dont have to produce "coca" instead of "grain" or other stuff they can grow.
 
and its not like u see little needles walking around looking for arms u know.....if u get hooked its ur own fault. i belive that every man is in control of his own destiny.
 
"In many cases one drug leads to another, harder, one."

This is a common misconception about pot, that it somehow induces the user to want to get into harder stuff.

I think what it really is is the fact that pot is classified as "illegal"--so the idea is, once you tasted one "forbidden" fruit, you get more brave to try other "forbidden" things... but that's all just basic psychology, nothing to do with the properties of THC....

I would actually say that drinking underage, thus another "forbidden fruit" for a minor, very well also has this psychological effect--again not due to the alcohol itself, but due to the illegality for the minor.

When I started doing meth and/or coke (there was a period I got into both those things, not anymore), I hadn't smoked pot in YEARS. Never when I did pot did I necessarily "want" for anything else--although I DID drink quite a bit then too.... I've done shrooms and stuff like that now and then (and once the magic shrooms got me in the frame of mind to quit coke before I became permanently hooked--they can be a good spiritual tool), but discovered these LONG after I discovered pot.

So was pot ever a "gateway drug" for me? NOPE. I suspect that for others, it is primarily the "forbidden fruit" factor of ALL illegal drugs that provide an extra thrill at trying them, if they're young and rebellious like most teens.... They may simply start with pot because it is usually the easiest to come by--but I'll bet nowadays in some areas kids start with crack instead of pot.

"The short term effects of marijuana use include problems with memory and learning;"

Actually that depends on the setting, and your focus. I can be stoned and get totally absorbed in some fascinating documentary on TV, or (more commonly) in a discussion with somebody. If I CHOOSE to focus on it (I find great interest in it or something), I can actually get all I can out of it that I would normally, PLUS a whole bunch of new ideas out of it. Pot, as many people know, can inspire great creativity.

Now if you do NOT choose to focus on something, or you're just not very interested in something, it DOES become harder to pay attention. This is why I NEVER come to work stoned.

"distorted perception;"

Mainly of time. (My depth perception doesn't suffer like it does with alcohol.) Time seems to slow WAY down--not physically (you certainly don't hear lower, prolonged sounds than normal or anything like that), but mentally--and you can actually take advantage of that. The effect is basically that MANY things can be processing through your mind, and you're conscious dialog is going through all of these and linking them in complex ways, and you realize that only 30 seconds or so went by (I find this happens when I focus away from the TV during commercials--a standard TV commercial is usually 30 seconds, and in that time of ONE commercial, I expect the program I was watching to be back on because I just did 3 minutes worth of thinking--3 minutes is the standard length for a block of commercials). Anyway, there are uses for this ability, whether it be for a quick wit in an argument, composing a poem or other creative work, or even working on a difficult problem you've chosen to focus on.

"difficulty in thinking and problem-solving;"

Read above. The key phrase is "chosen to focus on". If you CHOOSE to devote all your high-speed mental energy (characteristic of a pot high) to a particular task or problem, you can get it done, in many cases even quicker--particularly if intuitive ability can help in that particular problem....

But if you don't "focus", like when you're at a party and you're just having fun--"laughing stoned" I call that--then all that high-speed mental energy just bounces about chaotically (or in interesting unanticipated patterns), to your amusement. If someone came along and tried to give you a lecture at that point, unless you became instantly interested in the topic to bring it into focus, you probably wouldn't get much out of it because you're not interested in it, you just wanna have fun....

"loss of coordination;"

I've never observed that happening with ANYONE (myself, or others I observed, whether I was stoned or not). I could play pinball machines and pickup football stoned or not. I have no trouble walking like I do when I'm drunk. And I have a keener sense of rhythm actually--good for dancing and, well, YOU know....;)

"and increased heart rate, anxiety, and panic attacks."

I have noticed my heart beats quicker when I smoke weed, but have never heard of anyone's heart blowing out on them like it can with cocaine. Anyway, cigarettes (I used to smoke them) do the same thing as far as heart rate, but for more sustained periods because you're smoking them more frequently....

As for "pot makes you paranoid," it does do that for some people, but it doesn't for me. I think it has to do with the user's basic outlook on life--if he is pessimistic or generally afraid of people (or hateful), those (sometimes hidden) emotions could be augmented by the accelerated mental energy of a pot high.

It's like acid or shrooms--the frame of mind you enter that state with will determine how your trip will go, and whether it will be good or bad.... With pot, it will determine where you will tend to focus your thoughts....

So think GOOD thoughts! :D
 
Too many people in prison is right, and we need them working. We should get out the old chain gangs and shotguns and if they don't do what we tell them to - blow them to hell.

Rapists, drug dealers, murderers, and child molestors...

Execute them with a firing squad, on T.V. Make it a weekly special.
 
We now have a higher percentage of population in prison than ANY OTHER nation on earth (we were behind only the USSR and apartheid-rule South Africa until a few years ago).

Is THAT the kind of statistic "the land of the free" is supposed to have?

Get all those who commit victimless "crimes" like drug use out of prison. NOW! :mad:
 
Allan: Completely agree on the concentration and pot statement. I have learned alot from just flipping on the tube and firing up.

Drake: Actually I think alcohol is the loser drug, and heroin is the "I want to die high drug".

I haven't used any drugs (aside from prescription, beer, nicotine, and caffiene) since '97.

I KNOW that I won't use anything harder than THC ever again. It's not worth the risk, and my priorities are much different.

As for the petty criminals in prison, let them out and where will they go? Then the unemployment rate will go up, the Stock Market will crash due to investor worries, and there will be anarchy in the streets and stuff, all because of Weed.;) Sound like a right winger yet?
 
I think were all agreed on one thing;

Prison is not the answer.

We should try something else.

I agree with Hakaan that drugs are just insidious and evil. The people hooked on them are puppets, and need help. They are not necessarily evil people...

Nixon tried the methadone experiment and crime dropped dramaticaly in Washington DC. Unfortunately, we all know what happened to Nixon and his policies...

Reagan began the modern 'war on drugs' and demonized the drug users. We have been on this path in America ever since. I think it is misguided, and new ideas are needed.
 
The American War on Drugs is a lose cause, because drugs are like ideas. Onces they are out their they cant be stopped.

Maby the only solution is to put in every drug addict a chip (which really exists or almost exists) that make you gage and barf when you take a certain kind of narcotic. But would this be the solution to the world wide drug problem. Because when we gave this chips to the drugs addicts would we after this put them in our childeren so that they never could learn from their own mistakes. This would make this world a police state. Where the goverment is thinking for you and the only think YOU can do is work and die.

I think the populace would not take this and wil rebel against such politics.

Or we could just shoot every drug dealer/drug user/drug maker like in CHINA and other azians countries IS THIS THE SOLUTION. I dont think so. Because than we should also shoot the makers of Beer and other alchohol beverages and dont forget the producers of cigarets. Cigaretes killes more people than drugs and alchohol combined.
And who gives more money than everybody to the American government when ellections are their, RIGHT THE CIGARET COMPANIES. Hmmmmm that make you think isn it.

So in America and othe countries you could get locked up when you are taking Weed or Hasjh (Which by many people ae seen as Medicine, because a AIDS patient who use weed lives longer) but you can easily drink yourself to death or smoke as long as you want and die of cancer. STRANGE WORLD WE ARE LIVING ON.
 
Anyone ever Read "The Runaway Jury" ... Clear cut case of the tobacco companies power and resourses...

Quite a wake-up call...


Morgasshk.
 
I'm sure your post is missing a few words to give it sense Mr Morg.
 
Was trying to keep it short and sweet... Wouldn't want to cop anymore snide coments like I did before... Grrrr!

No, good book - By: John Grisham (don't think it's made it to the movies yet) and goes on in detail about the wide range and vast amount of power the BIG 5 tobacconist corporations have... Each of the five biggest tobacco companies have aside 1 billion dolars... Just to figh legal battles and offer people huge amounts of money to shut up and stay quiet...

Very detailed and a definate eye-opener as, if you seriously think about it it could definately be quite true...

Morgasshk.


(PS: I have ever been one for convoluted posts! :) )
 
I heard British scientists developed a chemical weapon which would destroy every poppy plant on earth, thus eliminating heroin. Unfortunately, you can make other legal products with the poppy and governmants who make money this way won't give permission to have the toxin released.:(

I believe there are 2 ways to go with drugs:

1) Legalize all drugs. Who is a government to say what you can and can't put in your body? You are not a child anymore, you are independent.

2) Ban all drugs. Mind altering drugs (including alcohol) are evil. They must be stopped. They ruin not only the users life, but the lives of those around them. Children will also be able to aquire drugs. Chemical weapons are a possibility.

I feel legallizing some drugs and not others is a contradiction. I, IMHO feel that is almost like the government saying: "These are the drugs the MPs or the majority like to use. Anyone who doesn't agree with the majority is a criminal. Being free and individual is a crime."
 
Heroin chewed my best friend up and spit him out.

Hakan, I completely sympathize. I've only personally known a few people who've wasted themselves on hard drugs, but I've seen plenty of the effects. I once had a 14 year old kid who needed drug money hold me up at gunpoint in the U.S. Whole segments of American society have been devasted by drugs. It is a great evil.

Lefty Scaevola wrote: The Taliban in Afghanistan has dominated the European heroin supply for the past decade. Prices will likely be goin up even more shortly.

Actually, about the one positive thing you can say about the Taliban is that they've put a very serious dent in the opium trade in Afghanistan. They're against it for religious reasons, and did the customary crop-burnings and executions to stop the trade. When the U.N. imposed sanctions on Afghanistan a year ago for being a virtual terrorist state, the Taliban pointed to their curtailment of the opium trade as one reason they should be spared. The Afghan opium network was effectively shut down in 1996 when the Taliban took over. On the contrary, you're likely to see the floodgates open up again after this war finishes, when the Taliban are gone.

VanOranje wrote: Personally I think drugs should be legalized also, because the prizes would drop rock bottom and so people dont earn the money like they do now.

The problem is indeed the price, though not in the way you imagine. The problem is that in some Third World countries (i.e., Afghanistan, Colombia, Angola, etc.) the rural population has been completely left to fend for itself, and no product it can produce has any sale value on the world market - except drugs. There's a powerful relationship between the Western demand for leisure drugs and the desperation of the impoverished rural populations of the Third World.

About ten years ago I watched Ecstacy Parties rage across Europe, only crossing the Atlantic in the past few years, and all I can think when I see - forgive me - spoiled Middle Class kids using these drugs as a kind of chemical masturbation is how some family in rural Colombia is living under the terror of the drug cartels who extract their opium, etc. produce (at a fraction of the real cost), leaving them with barely enough to survive on and leaving Colombia a political wasteland of terror. Have fun kids.

The American "War on Drugs" is indeed a failure. "Soft drugs" like marijuana probably should be legalized simply because their effects are minimal and the supply is so widespread that it is impossible to stop. They should be heavily regulated, like alcohol - but legalized nonetheless. Addictive drugs like heroin, cocaine, etc. can never be legalized. Legalizing marijuana would free up resources to crunch down on these far more destructive and corrosive drugs. Experiments like the Dutch one have also caused widespread problems in neighboring countries, as indeed the Swiss, French and Italian police have repeatedly complained about the increased flow of the harder drugs through their countries since Amsterdam's "liberalization". Needle-swaps make sense in the effort to fight the spread of HIV, but legalizing addictive drugs would cause a nightmare.

Why? Because the "consumers" of addictive drugs are not making rational decisions. They are simply reacting to a violent physical need.
 
The problem I see with legalizing soft drugs like marijuana is that its use will most likely go up, and it leads to more powerful drugs. Even if it is regulated like alcohol, young people will see it no different than alcohol: something that can't hurt you unless you take a ton and that is regulated because of this small chance (now I know this isn't true, but that's how my peers see it!). They will use it all the time to get the "chemical masturbation" (I like that description Vrylakas), and might eventually become addicted. After a while, this addiction becomes too strong to be satisfied by marijuana, and they have to move on to something more potent to appease it, and this means hard drugs.

Ten years ago when I was in the 4th grade I moved from a lower-income home to an area that was full of spoiled middle and upper class kids, and was shocked at the alcohol and other drugs used, including the "real masterbation" (yes these 9 and 10 year-old-kids were already going at it, and had started the whole dating routine since the 3rd grade). Now I go to a spoiled rich kid university, and its just the same. I made a vow to myself after I first moved to that place that I would never drink alcohol, smoke a cigerette, or do any other sort of regulated/illegal drugs, and I have kept to that promise. The problem is, I have never met another person in my age group over the last 10 years who has made the same decision, and its a bit disturbing. Now I don't think people who do these things are bad, I even have gone to a frat. party since coming to college last month, and it wasn't that bad (the 2nd-hand smoke was almost unbearable, but I ended up going into a person's bedroom and watching "The Big Labowsky" (sp?) along with 7 or 8 other people who weren't smoking at the time). These kids have the money, mostly have parents that don't care, and spend their freedom getting any sort of high or buzz they can without thinking anything of it. Its a culture thing, and until it is taken care of the 1st-World Countries will be supporting crime all over their territory and the rest of the world.
 
You may very well be right, Apollo. I've heard this argument before, that "soft drugs", while largely harmless themselves, serve as stepping stones to hard drug use. I don't have enough experience with drug stats, etc. to really be able to say one way or the other on that.

While I was in school - in a decade we will not mention but long since passed - marijuana was very widely available already. Deciding one wanted a joint and getting the joint were about the same as getting normal cigarettes, time-wise. My thought was that attempting to eradicate all drugs at the same time was an impossible undertaking; we should instead concentrate on the most damaging drugs. Again, you may be right though that there really is no middle ground in drug-use.

Any successful drug operation will have to entail 1. drying up the supply in the West, 2. eliminating the international supply networks, and 3. providing an alternative form of sustenance for the Third World farmers whose livelihood will be destroyed in the process of eliminating drugs. The culture among Western youth of instant gratification is the first thing that will have to be jettisoned. This is a huge undertaking because crime cartels have learned over the past decade to diversify and cooperate, so Colombian drug cartels have business interactions with IRA bombers, fundamentailist terrorists, the Russian "Mafiyah", etc.

On a side note, I wonder if future Civ games will ever be able to incorporate social ills like drug abuse or mafias into the game? Perhaps, in a more immediate sense, someone could design a scenario of an international war against drug cartels, maybe along the lines of the old "Syndicate" games?
 
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