I purposefully left diplo wins out of the OP because they are a totally unique win that has very little to do with other win types. I'm glad to hear that people still get space wins on immortal, that makes me happy. I suppose its possible to play a game where no AI is weak enough to beat in a fight, and yet you still manage to eke out a space win. The only games I've won are games where
a) I was not strong enough to conquer the world and lost, or
b) I won by conquest, or I won by another victory like space or culture but I was so strong I could have won by conquest.
I'm actually of the opinion that space is usually far easier than any other win condition (excepting a religious diplo fluke). My wins by conquest/dom are much rarer on immortal (could if I wanted), almost never on deity (usually can't and so don't try). I'd say the map more than difficulty though may be the determining factor on type of victory - dom win on a huge, non-pangea is much more work than just launching your ship. And in contrast, taking out 5-ish civs on a smaller map before the industrial age - which everyone is kinda referring to- is much easier.
I really should check out the BUG mod but this isn't the place for that (I can look this up on my own but am curious, though, if there is a way to disable certain notifications? Relations/WFYABTA/WHEOOHRN are pretty much the only things I'd use it for - x city will grow seems like a lot of clutter).
I play Immortal and Deity and can't say anything bad about financial. I do find it odd that you think the only way to win on higher levels is by War. Personally, I think winning by Domination is harder at Immortal and up while anything else seems easier.
I play a bit backwards though so my advice might not be good or even wanted lol . When I'm financial I do reverse builds in my cities or at least do a reverse tile adaption because I always manage to get more commerce which helps me to REX and tech better. If your confused so am I!
This single feature has made OCC's a paradise of joy for me where it by midgame earlier was a micromanagement hell because you need to check everyone every turn.
I have been playing Emp a while, and have dabbled at Immortal a couple times, and I have to agree. For me, its just not as enjoyable most times.
Here is a decent way to get a good, mostly peaceful game though. The Non-Isolated Isolation maps. B&S and M&S often create situations where you have your own landmass, or maybe share it with one other AI. Just as often, it will be super simple to block that AI and carve out a nice selection of land for yourself, including the islands off your coasts. This is the only map I have been able to beat Immortal on, and it was actually not nearly as much "work". Of course, it was Willy on a Snakey Islands map, which is just plain overpowered (get GLH, and Colossus if you can, REX with them til Steam Power, build Dikes and run over everyone with the amazing production). This type of map eliminates a lot of my main frustrations with the 1-landmass Emp/Immortal games (can be hard to get enough decent land, must keep huge power rating if you have Shaka et al around, and they still drop 50 more units on you than you could ever afford to build).
No love for the diplo wins? AP is pretty easy and UN ranges from map dependent to VERY easy (the latter if you get to #1 in pop, as you can direct suspect AIs to build it and get high pop AIs to vote your way instead of their own). The UN in particular I like because the AIs don't prioritize it unless they're culture whoring. If they're culture whoring, you can 1) screw diplo with them to make others favor you, and laugh at their pitiful military techs 2) assume most of the time they're not all that daunting in pop and 3) they'll be the ones building the wonder.
This is why a LOT of my games wind up with me taking out a civ or possibly two and then winding up #1 in pop, with strong enough relations for 2 AIs to vote for me. Game over.
I always wondered how the AI can be very far behind me before the industrial age and then catch up and launch a space ship a few turns before mine. I finally know - era bonuses. Firaxis programmed the AI to have era bonuses (I think on emperor that means the AI gets a 15% production bonus by the modern age).
I've looked around but I can't find or remember anything about an era bonus. Maybe you read that in the Civ Revolution forum?
Has anyone else found higher difficulty levels causing them to lean more towards warfare, and away from space ships, and away from the financial trait?
I wouldn't call "war" or "space" playing styles. It seems to me that the more land, research, production and resources you have the easier it is to win, regardless of which way you choose. Personally I try to build/conquer the best empire I can and then go space if I'm lazy, or otherwise domination or conquest. No reason a modern era war shouldn't lead to space I suppose if you played a game where it was 1800 and you were still behind that's be a different matter, but I usually get to the top of the chart before that (monarch/emperor). OF course, I also play each game with a goal in mind and tend to call it a loss if I screw it up, so I haven't exactly had plenty of comeback games...
Is the only difference between an emperor AI and a noble one the reduced unit costs and the inclination to build more units? Or does emperor AI actually have a different personality (more aggressive, more apt to backstab etc) or are they actually smarter (better land improvement for example)?
I think so. I know on deity the barbs are alot smarter. Funny stuff, they actually ignore your cities and circle around looking for improvements to pillage. And they seem to only attack at decent odds out in the field. I'm assuming that there's something similar for the AI, though it probably is the same above prince.
Also does emp AI get more health + happiness than a noble AI (kind of like how low level the player gets these bonuses)?
research ×1.30
unit cost ×1.00
distance maint. ×1.00
civic upkeep ×1.00
inflation ×1.00
AI costs ×0.60
90% animal attack probability
barbarians in 10 turns
barb. city creation prob.: 80%
versus Monarch
Spoiler:
+2 health
+4 happy
4 free units
1 AI attitude
AI starts with 1 Archer extra
research ×1.15
unit cost ×0.70
distance maint. ×0.90
civic upkeep ×0.95
inflation ×1.00
AI costs ×0.90
90% animal attack probability
animal strength: 20%
barbarians in 25 turns
barb. city creation prob.: 70%
I play the same style as you (emperor,cannon/draft and war) but sometimes I am not quick enough. I get a late space win as a consolation price pretty often then. There are two tricks that work nicely: 1) beeline the Internet and research the last tech yourself and 2) pump up your espionage (especially when 1) worked), locate a crap city of your main space competitor (infest with your religion if possible) an destroy his space parts. Attack submarines are ideal if you need to cross the ocean.
AI is not coded differently, not even barbs on deity. Although, barbs have extremely random/changing attack courage, and on deity the sheer #'s make them much more likely to ignore fogbusters and go for the pillage. AI disposition isn't different, other than they expand faster so you become a more likely war target sooner (and it's absolutely impossible to rely on power alone to avoid war on deity in the early game, you HAVE to use diplo...although in many cases you can defend yourself from what I've seen, the power needed to PREVENT war isn't attainable. It just isn't. At all.).
Basically it's just the bonuses on deity are so astronomical that the AIs seem different because previously improbable situations happen. If Lincoln builds 3 axes and shaka 6 on noble, shaka probably won't beat him as easily as if it's 10 vs 20, given how the AI distributes its garrisons.
Era bonuses exist in civ IV. On deity, it is 5%/era. I think it's 1%/era on prince and then increases 1%/era for each difficulty beyond that. Obviously, a 6% era bonus on prince in the future era isn't a big deal. A deity AI building ship parts at 30% reduced cost might be though, unless you're way better than I am.
Fortunately there isn't much to worry about in that regard.
The AI is very poor at selecting all of the right techs to attain a space victory, seeing them start building components in only a couple of turns each is definitely not a cause for worry.
They'll frequently make the mistake of building an expensive component in a low production city, crippling their final launch time.
The only way Diety sometimes helps them is that they'll be able to bludgeon their way thoughtlessly through the entire tech tree picking up every useless last tech (they can't resist the shinies) before you can slice your way along the cleanest route like a surgeon.
The worst case scenario is that there is only one powerful civ remaining. To make the best use of the most powerful tool you have available (the internet) it's best to keep two AI civs strong and teching well (to the extent of gifting irrelevant techs, to avoid them getting distracted).
In a 1 off race for the final component I'll always back the human over the Deity AI (with a 30% bonus or however much it is), because you can trust the human to have a proper production town ready to start the build.
@ Yesod: would you mind explaining those numbers a little?
If it says unit cost .7 does that mean the human player pays only 70% of the hammers for a unit? It has a number for AI cost... it's rather confusing
I just lost a game as Wang. Hammurabi beat me to a launch by 1 turn !!!! In another game when I was beaten to a launch it was by about 20 turns, but I had a few boatloads of marines and a few carriers near the enemy capital. Then, just before his ship landed (Justinian), I blasted and razed his capital....LOL
However, in this last game I didn't prepare an invasion force because I was certain I would launch first. I was WAY ahead of Hammurabi in building the ship. In fact, I didn't even notice the message indicating he launched until a couple turns later. He went from about 3 parts to a launch in about 5 turns. Totally mystifying!
@ Yesod: would you mind explaining those numbers a little?
If it says unit cost .7 does that mean the human player pays only 70% of the hammers for a unit? It has a number for AI cost... it's rather confusing
I don't understand the AI cost completely. I think at Monarch, you pay 70% upkeep for units (look in financial advisor) and that the AI pays 90% of that. Ironically enough that doesn't seem like any real bonus though...
Technologies cost an extra 15% in beakers, and you get a 10% or so discount from the deity cost of the other items.
@TMIT
I don't know, on emperor and monarch, I basically just stop in a forest when I see a barb, so it'll kamikaze. They usually just ignore me on deity. It was a complete guess as far as the AI playing different, though. I think I recall always getting ripped off on trades in deity, though, as if the trading values were moded. We know that WFYABTA is lower on deity.
Fortunately there isn't much to worry about in that regard.
The AI is very poor at selecting all of the right techs to attain a space victory, seeing them start building components in only a couple of turns each is definitely not a cause for worry.
They'll frequently make the mistake of building an expensive component in a low production city, crippling their final launch time.
The only way Diety sometimes helps them is that they'll be able to bludgeon their way thoughtlessly through the entire tech tree picking up every useless last tech (they can't resist the shinies) before you can slice your way along the cleanest route like a surgeon.
In a 1 off race for the final component I'll always back the human over the Deity AI (with a 30% bonus or however much it is), because you can trust the human to have a proper production town ready to start the build.
I think the premise of the OP is very valid, and I'm increasingly frustrated at how strictly you have to abide by each and every minute detail of "THE ONE WAY TO WIN" at the higher levels, otherwise expect to lose.
And the low to mid levels, religions ARE an option. Wonders ARE an option. Many avenues to gaining an advantage are open, and the possibilities approach the endless when it comes to trying various ways of gaining an advantage. Once you hit Emp (or even Monarch really) the religion option is gone, you're just guaranteed to lose if you go down that path. Wonders nerf down to simply an adjunct to the REX economy (and you start to HOPE you lose the race!) The "builder" trait among humans is nerfed because the game will smack you down mercilessly if you build even so much as a single building that's off-spec.
The options narrow. The games become repetitions of the same old tricks and techniques. All semblance of *strategy* disappears, and you become a robotic agent of somebody else's planning.
With each passing week I'm playing less and less civ because of this. I've gotten to where I can beat Emp, but ONLY if I strictly adhere to very narrow "rules". And the fun that I used to have at the noble/prince levels is gone because I have a greater familiarity with exactly what the AIs are going to do.
I suppose the only option for making civ fun again is to focus on multiplayer with no AIs on high-level bonus steroids, and simply match wits against organic entities for a change.
I don't understand the AI cost completely. I think at Monarch, you pay 70% upkeep for units (look in financial advisor) and that the AI pays 90% of that. Ironically enough that doesn't seem like any real bonus though...
AI 90% at Monarch stands for all their units and buildings (not wonders) cost only 90% the normal hammer cost.
At deity it's 60%. This is further modified for era while the game progresses, so in the endgame a deity AI gets ~2.5 units for every unit the human player gets at equal hammer input.
Moreover, there's a discount for food storage, i.e. normal speed deity AIs need 17 food to grow to pop 2, opposed to 22 for the human player.
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. When I'm financial I do reverse builds in my cities or at least do a reverse tile adaption because I always manage to get more commerce which helps me to REX and tech better. If your confused so am I!
.
In another game when I was beaten to a launch it was by about 20 turns, but I had a few boatloads of marines and a few carriers near the enemy capital. Then, just before his ship landed (Justinian), I blasted and razed his capital....LOL
