Historical Argument That Was In the Wrong Forum

[Kupe Navigator]

Don't matter how amazing and old the Tibet civilization was, other civilizations of the world (as Lakotas) also deserve to be free.
At least Tibet and Uyghurs are provinces in China with some grade of autonomus power, meanwhile Lakotas don't have even a state of United States to claim soverign.
The unique Native American States of USA, Oklahoma, have more white population then indigenous. And when they try to break the Oklahoma state in two (one of more native americans and other with more white americans) it was dennied by US governement.

The Republic of Lakotah is the brain child of Russell Means, a member of the Libertarian Party of the United States who happens to have a tribal membership in the Dakota Tribe and ran for the Libertarian Presidential nomination in 1988. There's not much more to the idea, and not a lot of support.

Yeah still not the same. Heck there is a movement for independent Hawaii... does that mean all Hawaiian want independence?

 

[Patine]

You also haven't addressed your taking misuse, twisting, wrongful labelling, and ulterior motive of religious doctrines and ideologies to justify horrid actions and oppressions completely contrary to those belief systems' viewpoints at the face value of those making wrongful such claims. This I find personally egregious.

@Henri Christophe I would still like this issue addressed, as I consider such misuse of religious labels to justify things completely contrary to that religion's doctrine and beliefs for ulterior motives to be unacceptable, repugnant, and a great evil in the world - and you just take these mislabellings at face value and utilize them in your arguments as such.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Yeah still not the same. Heck there is a movement for independent Hawaii... does that mean all Hawaiian want independence?

Good to remember, Hawaii is also a stolen nation who also deserve it's freedom. I don't know how much persons wants the independence today, but search a bit on internet I found some videos as that:

That shows at least a part of population want to be independent again.
And we n eed to restore the monarchy there, at least there is options as:

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Good to remember, Hawaii is also a stolen nation who also deserve it's freedom. I don't know how much persons wants the independence today, but search a bit on internet I found some videos as that:

That shows at least a part of population want to be independent again.
And we n eed to restore the monarchy there, at least there is options as:

a part=/= most of people. Most people are happy as being youngest state of USA. just because there is a movement there dose not mean they want to be independence.
Tibet and Uyghur on the other hand want independence and guaranteed human rights.

 

[Patine]

@Henri Christophe You're STILL ignoring your egregious bad debating habit, and not coming clean on it.

 

[Patine]

And we n eed to restore the monarchy there, at least there is options as:

One of the major Hawai'ian independence groups (there are several) called Nation of Hawai'i doesn't want the Monarchy back, but wants a modern Republic, instead.

 

[Patine]

One of the major Hawai'ian independence groups (there are several) called Nation of Hawai'i doesn't want the Monarchy back, but wants a modern Republic, instead.

In fact, that green, yellow, and red repeating striped flag with the two yellow crossed blades in the centre in those parade footage scenes is, specifically, Nation of Hawai'i's own flag as an organization and movement.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Good to remember, Hawaii is also a stolen nation who also deserve it's freedom. I don't know how much persons wants the independence today, but search a bit on internet I found some videos as that:

That shows at least a part of population want to be independent again.
And we n eed to restore the monarchy there, at least there is options as:

so once again why are you avoiding the point that me and Patine keeps on making?

 

[Henri Christophe]

a part=/= most of people. Most people are happy as being youngest state of USA. just because there is a movement there dose not mean they want to be independence.
Tibet and Uyghur on the other hand want independence and guaranteed human rights.

How you can be sure Hawaians dosen't want independency? Meanwhile you are so sure Tibetians want the independece.
I'm sure both have people who wants indepence and people who doesn't want. How solve this issue? Maybe a poll to know if there is more people who wants or not. But I can't see an opressor governement as USA/China doing this kind of poll.

One of the major Hawai'ian independence groups (there are several) called Nation of Hawai'i doesn't want the Monarchy back, but wants a modern Republic, instead.

I prefer monarchy, but if Hawaian people want to be a free republic, I'm cool with that

In fact, that green, yellow, and red repeating striped flag with the two yellow crossed blades in the centre in those parade footage scenes is, specifically, Nation of Hawai'i's own flag as an organization and movement.

This is the kind of comentary who needs a foto with. Are you speaking about that flag?

This flag is cool, better then actual flag with the Union Jack.

@Henri Christophe You're STILL ignoring your egregious bad debating habit, and not coming clean on it.

I don't even know what egregious means to have an answer to you...

Back in topic of independeces, other place of USA who deserve independece is Puerto Rico, it's a shame a country as USA have colonies in Caribe, and make it is worst because it isn't even a State of the Union, but just a colony.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

How you can be sure Hawaians dosen't want independency?

Simple a poll.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_sovereignty_movement

Meanwhile you are so sure Tibetians want the independece.
I'm sure both have people who wants indepence and people who doesn't want. How solve this issue?

Because Tibet actually has unofficial government in Exile lead by Dalai Lama himself?

 

[Patine]

I don't even know what egregious means to have an answer to you...

I'm talking about this issue I've brought up with you several times that you haven't responded or acknowledged:

@Henri Christophe I would still like this issue addressed, as I consider such misuse of religious labels to justify things completely contrary to that religion's doctrine and beliefs for ulterior motives to be unacceptable, repugnant, and a great evil in the world - and you just take these mislabellings at face value and utilize them in your arguments as such.

"Egregious," is merely an adjective, not the actual point.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Because Tibet actually has unofficial government in Exile lead by Dalai Lama himself?

Of course the Dalai Lama wants to be a king again of his homeland, but I want to know, how many Tibetians really want to be independent, without a poll is impossible to know.

And in your link, there is this image who advocate for independence of Hawaii as monarchy

 

[Patine]

@Henri Christophe You are responding to everything but an issue, that mentioned above, again, that is a very serious problem in your rhetoric.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Of course the Dalai Lama wants to be a king again of his homeland, but I want to know, how many Tibetians really want to be independent, without a poll is impossible to know

Errr where did you heard he wants to be a monarchy?
And that pic means nothing. Anyone can create that picture.
Also compare this link with Hawaiin independent link above.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_independence_movement

 

[Henri Christophe]

@Henri Christophe You are responding to everything but an issue, that mentioned above, again, that is a very serious problem in your rhetoric.

What do you want I to say? My rethoric is as it is. And it is not egregious how you said.

 

[Patine]

What do you want I to say? My rethoric is as it is. And it is not egregious how you said.

It is egregious to say that those using the name and label of a religion to do atrocious things completely contrary to that religion's doctrine and beliefs for ulterior motives should be taken at face value and even used as leverage in rhetoric and debate. It is egregious, indeed, and intolerable and repugnant. Do you REALLY stand by it, or are you willing to actually reconsider this viewpoint?

 

[Henri Christophe]

It is egregious to say that those using the name and label of a religion to do atrocious things completely contrary to that religion's doctrine and beliefs for ulterior motives should be taken at face value and even used as leverage in rhetoric and debate. It is egregious, indeed, and intolerable and repugnant. Do you REALLY stand by it, or are you willing to actually reconsider this viewpoint?

I don't understand well what are you trying to say. Are you conplain about what I said of Confucius be used by CCP as a model? If was that I don't change my mind.

 

[Patine]

I don't understand well what are you trying to say. Are you conplain about what I said of Confucius be used by CCP as a model? If was that I don't change my mind.

You should reconsider that, seriously. It's self-serving propaganda with no truth to it. And, you've recently termed atrocities done in the name of Christianity, but that are highly Un-Christian, even anathema, antithesis, and antagonistic to anything Christ preached in His Ministry and Path to Salvation, as being conflated with being actual Christian belief and conduct done by actual Christians. There's that, as well.

 

[Henri Christophe]

You should reconsider that, seriously. It's self-serving propaganda with no truth to it. And, you've recently termed atrocities done in the name of Christianity, but that are highly Un-Christian, even anathema, antithesis, and antagonistic to anything Christ preached in His Ministry and Path to Salvation, as being conflated with being actual Christian belief and conduct done by actual Christians. There's that, as well.

Are you talking about the colonization? It was made on name of Christ. I agree it wasn't watch Christ taught, but this is made in name of him.
Even the slavery has an excuse of the church to do it, something about a cursed jew who are supposed to be the father of all Africans.

And who started to compare Christ and what people do in name of him was you, I was just talking about how CCP was inspired in Confucius to do it own behaviour.

 

[Patine]

Are you talking about the colonization? It was made on name of Christ. I agree it wasn't watch Christ taught, but this is made in name of him.
Even the slavery has an excuse of the church to do it, something about a cursed jew who are supposed to be the father of all Africans.

And who started to compare Christ and what people do in name of him was you, I was just talking about how CCP was inspired in Confucius to do it own behaviour.

The CCP was not actually inspired by Confucius, is the point your missing. It was inspired by Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, Josef Stalin, Mao Zedong, and Deng Xiaopeng. In fact, Mao actively SUPPRESSED Confucian ideals and BURNT Confucian texts and jailed, executed, or forced into exile Confucian scholars during the Cultural Revolution. This, "Confucian inspiration," supposed from a man who had nothing in common with Communist ideology, was retconned for pure propaganda purposes in the '80's

Also, it doesn't what religion, religious founder, or deity of a religion people committing evil in the name of that religion completely counter to that religion's doctrine is, it DOESN'T make it OF that religion, in truth.