Historical Book Recomendation Thread

[Louis XXIV]

While Dachs does know a great deal, he has his gaps, just like any of us. Try asking him about Classical Indian History or Early Modern French History, for example.

Well, I took this goal to be aspirational rather than a belief that he could realistically and easily do it. I think his point was he should try to fill as many gaps in knowledge as possible.

Back closer on topic:

Does anyone know any good books covering the Byzantine Empire. I guess to make some futile attempt to narrow it down, I don't really care about much beyond the Fourth Crusade (yeah, I know that doesn't help much).

 

[Ajidica]

I enjoyed the books by Norwich (Byzantium: The Early Centuries, Byzantium: The Apogee, Byzantium: The Decline and Fall) but I know Dachs isn't a big fan of them. The focus of the books is more on the people involved and telling a compelling narrative than an analysis of the politics, military, or economy.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yeah, while it's good to know about the people involved, I'd also like to know more about social, economic, and cultural aspects as well. That being said, I know so little about their history except when it interacts with the west that even that's probably not a bad place to start provided there aren't serious flaws that can't be taken into account (keep in mind that this very well could be my first impression on many areas of Byzantine history so I wouldn't want the wrong first impression). I do need to know more at the state-level and international level as well, though, so, as long as it isn't just a survey of "Great men," but actually gives a good idea of the Empire's role, that's not too bad.

 

[Dachs]

Does anyone know any good books covering the Byzantine Empire. I guess to make some futile attempt to narrow it down, I don't really care about much beyond the Fourth Crusade (yeah, I know that doesn't help much).

Warren Treadgold, A History of the Byzantine State and Society. One-stop shop for pretty much everything. Not as recent as one might like - it's like 20 years old at this point - but still holds up reasonably well on almost all subjects.

And yeah, I don't like Norwich's books very much, mostly because they suck donkey balls.

 

[Antilogic]

Well, I took this goal to be aspirational rather than a belief that he could realistically and easily do it. I think his point was he should try to fill as many gaps in knowledge as possible.

This is pretty much my motivation. I had such a terrible background in history from middle and high school (excepting a single history class and kinda-sorta the nonfiction lit class), I felt the need to fill it in.

I enjoyed the books by Norwich (Byzantium: The Early Centuries, Byzantium: The Apogee, Byzantium: The Decline and Fall) but I know Dachs isn't a big fan of them. The focus of the books is more on the people involved and telling a compelling narrative than an analysis of the politics, military, or economy.

That's pretty accurate as to the content. Lost to the West is like that as well, but even more pop-historyish than Norwich's series.

 

[Dachs]

It's not just about the people involved, though; Norwich's books talk about the people involved with a minimum of source analysis, let alone (God forbid) secondary literature. So we get more or less uncritical Prokopian narrative history of the Age of Ioustinianos, for instance, and an encomium of kinda-crappy emperor Alexios I because of his daughter writing that epic poem.

 

[Antilogic]

It's not just about the people involved, though; Norwich's books talk about the people involved with a minimum of source analysis, let alone (God forbid) secondary literature. So we get more or less uncritical Prokopian narrative history of the Age of Ioustinianos, for instance, and an encomium of kinda-crappy emperor Alexios I because of his daughter writing that epic poem.

So you would describe him as more of a mouthpiece, or maybe just an uncritical amplifier, of the primary source biographies?

 

[Dachs]

So you would describe him as more of a mouthpiece, or maybe just an uncritical amplifier, of the primary source biographies?

That sounds about right, yeah. And Gibbon. He references Gibbon a lot, although mostly to argue against the Gibbonesque notion that the Byzantine state was boring, pointless, stupid, and weak. Which is all right in its way, but not exactly a relevant debate in our time.

 

[History_Buff]

One could do a lot worse than the history series that Oxford and Cambridge put out. Those books generally contain well-edited series of thematic articles on a given subject written by experts, and they're usually divided by a periodization that most people can easily understand. The problem with the Oxbridge books is that they most often show up in university libraries; I don't know much about pricing or availability to the general public, but I remember seeing the Oxford Companion to Roman Studies at over $100 on Amazon.

Warren Treadgold, A History of the Byzantine State and Society. One-stop shop for pretty much everything. Not as recent as one might like - it's like 20 years old at this point - but still holds up reasonably well on almost all subjects.

Finding these things has been the hardest part for me. I've been trying to collect the big name books that have come up in this thread; some I already had, some have been easy to order (Barbarian Migrations, Iron Kingdom) others seem damned impossible to come by for private possession (State and Society, Transformation of European Politics), particularly since I would prefer to get them in hardcover, because I think they look better on a shelf that way.

While Dachs does know a great deal, he has his gaps, just like any of us. Try asking him about Classical Indian History or Early Modern French History, for example. It's also important to remember that Dachs has been spending asstons of time reading mostly history books for the past 8 or 9 years. To compare, if you were spending the same amount of time practicing a language, that would make you a highly fluent speaker, and if you spent that time learning an instrument you would be on the level of an average session player. It's all about that 10,000 hours.

Also, I was under the impression that Dachs was actually educated in history at at leas the undergraduate level, which is probably quite the step up over most of us. Then there's guys like Patroklos who do this sort of thing for a living.

 

[Antilogic]

Finding these things has been the hardest part for me. I've been trying to collect the big name books that have come up in this thread; some I already had, some have been easy to order (Barbarian Migrations, Iron Kingdom) others seem damned impossible to come by for private possession (State and Society, Transformation of European Politics), particularly since I would prefer to get them in hardcover, because I think they look better on a shelf that way.

We were working on a CFC top-recommended books thread, but that fell off the first page. I'll have to take some time this Christmas to revive and update it.

 

[Glassfan]

Problem was two competing threads. Good idea though...

 

[History_Buff]

We were working on a CFC top-recommended books thread, but that fell off the first page. I'll have to take some time this Christmas to revive and update it.

Yeah, I remember. Though when it came time to find "The Big List of Books I'll Probably Enjoy," googling "Civfanatics Byzantine State and Society" used to be good enough to bring me to the relevant page of this thread. Now we've ruined it though.

 

[Antilogic]

Problem was two competing threads. Good idea though...

There was a slightly different design behind that thread, though. This thread is for regular asking around for recommendations, while the best books thread would be an agreed-upon list of the dozen or so best books on history we have collectively come across. Ultimately, I figured it would be a sticky reference kind of thing.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I was thinking of starting a thread for Book Reviews where, if you read a book, you share your thoughts. It's a little different than recommendations, but, obviously, if someone likes a book, it might inspire you to read it too. Anyone have any thoughts?

Warren Treadgold, A History of the Byzantine State and Society. One-stop shop for pretty much everything. Not as recent as one might like - it's like 20 years old at this point - but still holds up reasonably well on almost all subjects.

If it has maps I'm sold

I have no idea why I'm such a sucker for maps.

 

[Antilogic]

It makes a difference! And not just a map with 4 cities labeled on it, I want a detailed map I can flip back and forth to so I can see where the action is happening and put everything together!

 

[Dachs]

yes it has a bunch of maps

 

[Mouthwash]

It makes a difference! And not just a map with 4 cities labeled on it, I want a detailed map I can flip back and forth to so I can see where the action is happening and put everything together!

Those are important for me, too, but nerve-wracking to go back and forth between after a while. I wish that they would flip upwards so that we could always see them.

Also, when going through footnotes and sources, is it better to tear them out of the book so you can focus on them and read at the same time, or go through them after reading the book itself?

 

[sophie]

Also, when going through footnotes and sources, is it better to tear them out of the book so you can focus on them and read at the same time, or go through them after reading the book itself?

The point of footnotes is that you don't have to flip around: you merely need to glance down.

Serious answer: the latter.

 

[Mouthwash]

An instant answer by you, Owen, presumably the moment you saw my name by the thread. You've become quite the paternalist.

(There's an adoption joke screaming to be made here, but I'm not sure how to phrase it.)


Moving on: is Paul Kennedy considered good history?

 

[Glassfan]

...If it has maps I'm sold

I have no idea why I'm such a sucker for maps.

It makes a difference! And not just a map with 4 cities labeled on it, I want a detailed map I can flip back and forth to so I can see where the action is happening and put everything together!

yes it has a bunch of maps

It's the Second Law of History Books that maps may not include the names of towns or locations mentioned in the text.