History questions not worth their own thread II

[vogtmurr]

Actually, the Jewish and Muslim prohibitions against pork make a lot more sense in this context.

I thought the taboo had a more pragmatic reasoning, that without good preservation methods, 'the unclean animals' far too often were infected with active parasites which were transmitted to humans.

 

[Tee Kay]

That's true too, but preservation of meat was always going to be problematic before refridgeration. After that, combined with what Cynovolans pointed out, the prohibitions make perfect sense. Nothing's better than religious tradition when it comes to convincing people to do things in a certain way.

 

[Masada]

I don't want to spoil people's fun but pigs eat grass.

 

[Tee Kay]

Could the grasslands and semi-deserts of Arabia support a large domesticated pig population though?

 

[Masada]

Yeah, better than they could freaking grass chompers like cows and sheep. Those would make a great deal more sense to ban. I would maybe look at the advantages that goats have over pigs in semi-arid/arid conditions as a possible solution.

 

[Karalysia]

Well mutton is fairly popular throughout the region.

 

[vogtmurr]

pork is notoriously subject to tape worms, not so much cows and sheep. Actually sheep do well in semi-arid areas too, I don't know if it is because they are close croppers who can thrive on a wider variety of vegetation, or because they are more resistant to dehydration.

 

[Tee Kay]

Yeah, better than they could freaking grass chompers like cows and sheep. Those would make a great deal more sense to ban. I would maybe look at the advantages that goats have over pigs in semi-arid/arid conditions as a possible solution.

According to Wiki at least boars don't thrive in Arabia or deserts in general.

Actually sheep do well in semi-arid areas too, I don't know if it is because they are close croppers who can thrive on a wider variety of vegetation, or because they are more resistant to dehydration.

Maybe. Obviously when it comes to animal husbandry I'm a pretty ignorant guy. Most things really, but especially animal husbandry.

 

[say1988]

Not to mention Cows, Goats, and Sheep have better uses while alive (milk and wool). a pig's main use in this respect is that they can eat pretty much anyything.

I also though the tendency of pigs to wallow had a negative affect on their popularity..

 

[Masada]

pork is notoriously subject to tape worms, not so much cows and sheep.

Pork is no worse and no better, on balance, than any other kind of meat.

Actually sheep do well in semi-arid areas too, I don't know if it is because they are close croppers who can thrive on a wider variety of vegetation, or because they are more resistant to dehydration.

So for that matter do cows. Brahmans are superbly adapted to arid conditions. They even live in and around Alice Springs. Sheep, by contrast, don't make it much over the Goyder Line.

Not to mention Cows, Goats, and Sheep have better uses while alive (milk and wool). a pig's main use in this respect is that they can eat pretty much anyything.

That's a huge advantage over cows, goats and sheep though. Really, goats are the only one of those that can compare to a pig in terms of foraging. Not to mention that pigs give birth in litters.

I also though the tendency of pigs to wallow had a negative affect on their popularity..

Sheep smell and are stupid. Goats are mean tempered. Cows are well cows...

According to Wiki at least boars don't thrive in Arabia or deserts in general.

I don't that matters much. Most large mammals don't. Camels excepted.

 

[say1988]

Sheep smell and are stupid. Goats are mean tempered. Cows are well cows...

But, as far as I am aware, they have a lower tendency to muck around in your water supply. And sheep being stupid is a benefit, making them far easier to control than cows, pigs, or goats.

That's a huge advantage over cows, goats and sheep though.

But at the same time you pass on the production of milk and wool.

Pork is no worse and no better, on balance, than any other kind of meat.

I don't know about a thousand+ years ago, but in the recent past, yes, pork generally presented more risk when eaten than beef, poultry, and sheep, at least.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

So i'm guessing there isn't a generaly accepted reason why pork is forbidden for jews and muslims.

FWIW, what are the religious reasons for this ?

 

[say1988]

Because it doesn't chew its cud.

 

[Cynovolans]

I don't want to spoil people's fun but pigs eat grass.

But they're not ruminants(like camels, cows, and sheep), so they need something other than grass to eat.

 

[GinandTonic]

pork is notoriously subject to tape worms, not so much cows and sheep. Actually sheep do well in semi-arid areas too, I don't know if it is because they are close croppers who can thrive on a wider variety of vegetation, or because they are more resistant to dehydration.

Maybe. Obviously when it comes to animal husbandry I'm a pretty ignorant guy. Most things really, but especially animal husbandry.

You are Australian. Isnt the survival of Sheep in borderline arid grassland a basis of the founding economics of the nation?

 

[innonimatu]

So i'm guessing there isn't a generaly accepted reason why pork is forbidden for jews and muslims.

FWIW, what are the religious reasons for this ?

Why can't it be simply that some successful self-styled prophet didn't like pigs? Sometimes there's no rational explanation for traditions!

 

[Lord Baal]

Why can't it be simply that some successful self-styled prophet didn't like pigs? Sometimes there's no rational explanation for traditions!

Case in point; the Jewish ban on the use of olive oil that came from anywhere other than Palestine during the Roman rule there. What possible reasonable explanation could there be for that? Especially considering the fact that no such ban exists now, and as early as the fifth century rabbis couldn't work out the reason for this prohibition.

 

[Karalysia]

Case in point; the Jewish ban on the use of olive oil that came from anywhere other than Palestine during the Roman rule there. What possible reasonable explanation could there be for that? Especially considering the fact that no such ban exists now, and as early as the fifth century rabbis couldn't work out the reason for this prohibition.

Economics. Lock out competitors and support the Palestinian olive grower industry.

 

[Masada]

But, as far as I am aware, they have a lower tendency to muck around in your water supply. And sheep being stupid is a benefit, making them far easier to control than cows, pigs, or goats.

Sheep, cows and goats have hooves. The wallowing is not noticeably worse.

But at the same time you pass on the production of milk and wool.

I'm not sure about the cost/benefits of that though. Pigs breed prodigiously and you can eat the piglets from the get go. In terms of protein generation its also the most efficient of the animals listed.

I don't know about a thousand+ years ago, but in the recent past, yes, pork generally presented more risk when eaten than beef, poultry, and sheep, at least.

I suppose pork still has the unfortunate defect of eating just about everything. But I don't believe on balance that it was markedly worse than any other type of meat.

But they're not ruminants(like camels, cows, and sheep), so they need something other than grass to eat.

They eat scorpions and mice... that kind of flexibility in diet makes them far better suited to the hard times than cows and sheep. Less so for goats which can eat acacia straight from the tree.

You are Australian. Isnt the survival of Sheep in borderline arid grassland a basis of the founding economics of the nation?

Yep, the Goyder Line.

Why can't it be simply that some successful self-styled prophet didn't like pigs? Sometimes there's no rational explanation for traditions!

Yeah, I suspect that.

 

[Cynovolans]

They eat scorpions and mice... that kind of flexibility in diet makes them far better suited to the hard times than cows and sheep. Less so for goats which can eat acacia straight from the tree.

Pigs need carbohydrates, since they don't get it from grass like cows and sheeps and there isn't a good source of carbohydrates in a desert they need to be bought grains.