Hitler's Worst Mistake

A few things I can think of that I'm not sure have been mentioned.(been a while since having read the start of this thread)

Fully mobilizing the German economy sooner. This probably wouldn't help much in the Eastern front where logistics and poor roads are a problem but more planes and tanks for the West could be useful.

Perhaps not courting Turkey enough. Whether it would be at all possible for Turkey to join the war. If they did join on the side of the Axis in 1941 the war could go much differently. 50 or so thousand Turkish soldiers rampaging through the British Middle East would draw away allied forces from North Africa increasing Rommels chances of victory in Egypt and whatever the Turks can send against the Soviets in the Caucusus would ensure less Soviet forces elsewhere. Although I doubt Turkey would be successful in the region it could be useful to the overall war effort.
 
I thought of one more thing...

Creating the motivation behind Godwin's Law. Yeah, he sucks for that.
 
The Sturmgewher 44 would have been really useful on the Eastern Front. A major advantage that the US had over the Germans is that the m1 Garand has 3 times the fire rate of their bolt action rifle. (it was the Mauser I think)

If the Germans had some Sturmgewher 44s they would have fire superiority.
 
Yeah, but it would not even come close to making a significant difference. More Russians dies, maybe their push is a bit slower, but in the end the Germans get crushed. A slight increase in the effectiveness of their infantry in '43 onwards would not make a difference.
 
Undoubtedly his biggest mistake:

His failure to spontaneously abort in his mother's womb.

The rest of his errors have been adequately covered here already.
 
My 3, may or may not have been mentioned.

1. Deciding to split army group south and trying to capture both Stalingrad and the Caucasus.

2. Putting Goering in charge of the Luftwaffe.

3. Not putting enough emphasis on the North Africa until it was too late.
 
True, when you have sufficient shipping capacity and control of the seas. The Allies had the ships (merchant and combat) to support their forces despite losses. Every ship lost was significant to the Germans, and when forces were operating out of Malta those losses were pretty big.
Obviously Malta would have to be captured if North Africa were to be invaded in force. One of the turning points in the war was actually Hitler's decision to invade Crete, which was fairly useless for everything except cutting supplies to the Soviets through the Black Sea, rather than the far more important Malta. If the Mediterranean were closed to the British the Italian Fleet would be more than enough to supply German troops in the Middle East.

And if they had waited a year, the Soviets may not have been caught off guard. then both fronts become unwinnable.
Both fronts were pretty unwinnable anyway, but logic at the time certainly dictated that the timing was wrong.

I understand what you are saying, and logically, at the time, I would agree with you. But hindsight shows that their best shot at success was Barbarossa in 1941, where they had a slim shot at victory, while anything else would require, as you said, a mirable.
I try to avoid hindsight as much as possible in situations like this, but we can never be sure how prepared Stalin would have been in another year. If Hitler had accepted his offer to join the Axis and still sneak-attacked him, he may well have been caught even more off-guard. It's definitely aa coin-toss though.

1500 ton tank with 800mm guns (Schwerer Gustav) and a crew of over 100. I believe frontal armour was to be 250mm or something like that.
That is a ridiculously over-sized tank. It would be relatively useless in combat.

I think that had a minor influence compared to (theoretically) having a ME 262 in 1941.

I don't think "in the long run" is what mattered. If the effects of the "sort run" could be a bit more decisive there wouldn't have been a "long run".
I know this plane had its testflights in 1941 and the battle of Britain was in 1940, but... Just imagine ME 262's in sufficient numbers (and with reliable engines) actively present during the battle of Britain and what consequences that could have had.
Those consequences being a few more British planes destroyed and a weaker German economy overall from rushing through the research and development on this weapon? Because the Battle of Britain was never in doubt; it would always be a British victory.

A few things I can think of that I'm not sure have been mentioned.(been a while since having read the start of this thread)

Fully mobilizing the German economy sooner. This probably wouldn't help much in the Eastern front where logistics and poor roads are a problem but more planes and tanks for the West could be useful.
Definitely an error, but it's doubtful it would have done more than prolonged the inevitable.

Perhaps not courting Turkey enough. Whether it would be at all possible for Turkey to join the war. If they did join on the side of the Axis in 1941 the war could go much differently. 50 or so thousand Turkish soldiers rampaging through the British Middle East would draw away allied forces from North Africa increasing Rommels chances of victory in Egypt and whatever the Turks can send against the Soviets in the Caucusus would ensure less Soviet forces elsewhere. Although I doubt Turkey would be successful in the region it could be useful to the overall war effort.
Turkey's entry into the war would have made a difference, but not that much of one. It simply wasn't strong enough to make a big enough impact, and Turkey joining the Axis would have guaranteed an immediate Russian response. Not to mention that becoming a German satellite would have been very much against Turkish national interest. Put simply, Turkey would never join forces with Germany short of an ultimatum, much like Yugoslavia, or a German victory in North Africa and the Middle East.

My 3, may or may not have been mentioned.

1. Deciding to split army group south and trying to capture both Stalingrad and the Caucasus.

2. Putting Goering in charge of the Luftwaffe.

3. Not putting enough emphasis on the North Africa until it was too late.
1. A definite error, but it would have been too little too late by that point anyway.

2. Why was that an error? Goering did a pretty good job of re-building an air force pretty much from scratch. There were better choices, such as Albert Speer, but Goering was among the best at the time.

3. That's a HUGE mistake, which I've been iterating for most of this thread.
 
Who knows how the following 6 months would have gone if the was no disaster at Stalingrad and an intact army group south.

I think you mean Albert Kesselring. I don''t think Speer had any military background.

Goering was too political a decision to appoint as head of the Luftwaffe. He had a lot of jobs preceding the war and couldn't devote all of his efforts to his baby. The luftwaffe was in good shape at the start of the war but they always lacked a heavy bomber- something that would have come in handy.

By the second half of the war it was said he was addicted to morphine and spent more time with his jewellery and stolen art treasures than he did with the Luftwaffe.
 
The German Army was far from ready, but I certainly understand why they thought they were. They vastly underestimated the Soviets, and considering the USSR's piss-poor efforts in Finland, they kind of had the right to. They should have focused more on the result of Soviet skirmishes with Japan though, which were a more accurate gauge of Soviet strength. The Germans also had morale on their side after a string of victories, but they still shouldn't have attacked when they did. Certainly not with such a weak strategy.

But if they focused too much on the breif conflict in the far east they may have taken into account the weakness of japanese infantry and tactics, an army that was used to fighting under equipped chinese divisions. And written the Soviets off anyway.

Hitler was always going to attack the USSR. Its not like he watched the results of the Winter War and though "gee they seem weak, I might have a go".

May 1941 was the ultimate time for the Germans to attack. Because they couldn't June was the next best option. He needed to finish off the Russians ASAP and then turn back to Britian.

Although the Red Army wasn't defeated in 1941 and they didn't capture Moscow or Leningrad the opening 5 or 6 months were a massive sucess for the Wehrmacht. The summer of '42 didn't exactly see the Germans in full retreat either.
 
Who knows how the following 6 months would have gone if the was no disaster at Stalingrad and an intact army group south.
Germany was already beaten by that point, even without the slaughter at Stalingrad. The best they could hope for was a negotiated peace, which may very well have been possible if not for Stalingrad, but there were plenty of other problems to be overcome before the Allies would make peace with Nazi Germany. The biggest one being a certain Fuhrer.

I think you mean Albert Kesselring. I don''t think Speer had any military background.
Speer took Goering's place as head of the Armaments ministry in 1943. He didn't have a military background but he was a fantastic administrator. Kesselring would probably be a good choice as well.

Goering was too political a decision to appoint as head of the Luftwaffe. He had a lot of jobs preceding the war and couldn't devote all of his efforts to his baby. The luftwaffe was in good shape at the start of the war but they always lacked a heavy bomber- something that would have come in handy.
Every appointment in the early days of the Reich was very political, with the possible exception of Ribbentrop and a few businessmen. Goering was better in his place than most other Nazis would have been. And a heavy bomber would not have suited the blitzkrieg tactics used by Germany, which required tactical bombing rather than strategic bombing. It may have been useful in the invasion of Russia and the Battle of Britain, but was unnecessary.

By the second half of the war it was said he was addicted to morphine and spent more time with his jewellery and stolen art treasures than he did with the Luftwaffe.
He was addicted to morphine since 1923, he just seemed to get worse over time. Part of that was undoubtedly due to the war, which he hadn't wanted, and his fall from Hitler's grace after the Munich Pact.

But if they focused too much on the breif conflict in the far east they may have taken into account the weakness of japanese infantry and tactics, an army that was used to fighting under equipped chinese divisions. And written the Soviets off anyway.
They'd have written off the Soviets for scoring massive and comprehensive victories over a major nation? Really? Japanese tactics were much better than you seem to realise. They didn't take Singapore with poor tactics.

Hitler was always going to attack the USSR. Its not like he watched the results of the Winter War and though "gee they seem weak, I might have a go".
Well, duh. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that myself in this thread. He still needed to take relative strengths and overall readiness into account.

May 1941 was the ultimate time for the Germans to attack. Because they couldn't June was the next best option. He needed to finish off the Russians ASAP and then turn back to Britian.
No. What Hitler needed to do was take care of Britain first. Attacking Russia with Britain at his back was an incredibly stupid decision.

Although the Red Army wasn't defeated in 1941 and they didn't capture Moscow or Leningrad the opening 5 or 6 months were a massive sucess for the Wehrmacht. The summer of '42 didn't exactly see the Germans in full retreat either.
No, but it did see them defeated. Germany's war with Russia was a lot like Japan's war with America; they had six months to run wild and secure their position before the enemy could gather the strength to destroy them. Despite massive tactical victories, both Germany and Japan failed to achieve key strategic goals within the first six months of their respective wars, and these failures ensured their eventual defeat. The best Germany could have hoped for after failing to take Moscow - forget Leningrad, it was unimportant and should have been left alone - was a negotiated peace. They could probably have even held on to some Russian territory if they'd used strategic withdrawals and counter-strikes to disguise their weakness. But that's all. By the summer of 1942 Germany had lost the war.
 
Speer replaced Fritz Todt, one of the few people Hitler didn't have to sack.

My point about Goering being too political stems from his long association with Hitler and the Nazi party. While Hitler could sack Halder, Raeder, Manstein etc etc he couldn't sack the man who had been by his side the whole time, the number 2 man in the Reich. How would that look to the German people, and worse their enemies?

Despite any stunning victories the Soviets produced over any army prior to operation Barbarossa. Hilter still would have written them off as sub-humans he could easily smash. So immense was his meglomania he wouldn't take military advice from anyone. And thats the only reason case blue didn't work.
 
It may have been useful in the invasion of Russia and the Battle of Britain, but was unnecessary.
I doubt they'd even be useful. Germany simply didn't have the resources to commit to a strategic bombing program, and any aircraft they did have would have been in insufficient numbers to actually accomplish anything, and probably would have spent the rest of the war as cargo aircraft.
 
Speer replaced Fritz Todt, one of the few people Hitler didn't have to sack.

My point about Goering being too political stems from his long association with Hitler and the Nazi party. While Hitler could sack Halder, Raeder, Manstein etc etc he couldn't sack the man who had been by his side the whole time, the number 2 man in the Reich. How would that look to the German people, and worse their enemies?

Despite any stunning victories the Soviets produced over any army prior to operation Barbarossa. Hilter still would have written them off as sub-humans he could easily smash. So immense was his meglomania he wouldn't take military advice from anyone. And thats the only reason case blue didn't work.
Hitler sacked or demoted fellow Nazis all the time. Goering himself was replaced in several of his positions by other men at certain points in time, and Himmler wet from the second most powerful man in Germany in 1944 to a mid-level bureaucrat at best by April 1945. Hitler had no qualms whatsoever about removing people he thought were threats or incompetent; the Night of the Long Knives is proof enough of that.

As for invading Russia, I think you'll find that Hitler may well have held off if Russia had won a string of massive victories. He very nearly called off the invasion of Poland after Britain signed a treaty of alliance with them in August 1939, but was convinced by Ribbentrop that it was only for show, and that Britain wouldn't intervene. And that was against a much weaker opponent. Hitler did occasionally put aside his megalomania and ideology when it suited his purposes.
 
No. What Hitler needed to do was take care of Britain first. Attacking Russia with Britain at his back was an incredibly stupid decision.

And, of course, he had no way of taking care of Britain. Especially not in a timeframe that would allow him to attack the USSR before the latter grew too powerful to even look vulnerable to a blind man, and/or the rotten underpinnings of the German economy collapsed.
 
And, of course, he had no way of taking care of Britain. Especially not in a timeframe that would allow him to attack the USSR before the latter grew too powerful to even look vulnerable to a blind man, and/or the rotten underpinnings of the German economy collapsed.
Then maybe he shouldn't have raped the German economy? If you can't win a war on one front, then it seems quite silly to start a second, don't you think?
 
He made so many mistakes it's impossible to decide which was the worst. Here's a few chronologically.

1. Allying himself with Italy (a country that just barely managed to conquer Ethiopia) and Japan (a country to geographically distant to offer any real support).

2. Allowing the British to escape Dunkirk in hopes that they would help fight against Stalin.

3. Not pushing the advantage and invading Britain and instead allowing the superior RAF to severely weaken the Luftwaffe.

4. Invading the Soviet Union, especially since it was close to winter.

5. Declaring war on the US shortly after Pearl Harbor when the US had no plans to enter the war on the European front.

6. Basically just ignoring any intelligent suggestions his chief officers made because he thought he was a god and no one was a great as him.

7. Wasting resources on concentration camps and death camps instead of focusing them on the war. *(Debatable)*

I think reasons 4 and 6 are the most damning mistakes because it was the USSR that did most of the heavy lifting (i.e. being responsible for 80% of German casualties in WWII) during the war and if Hitler had listened to his senior officers he would've known that his plan was incredibly stupid.
 
1. Allying himself with Italy (a country that just barely managed to conquer Ethiopia) and Japan (a country to geographically distant to offer any real support).
Despite being much maligned and generally ineffectual, Italy was a necessary ally and I believe beneficial, until Germany started taking losses.
Japan could have been an important ally, they did share a border with, and fought battles against, Hitler's main enemy. They just didn't follow through with an attack. And he didn't really lose anything allying with Japan.

3. Not pushing the advantage and invading Britain and instead allowing the superior RAF to severely weaken the Luftwaffe.
Any attempt to invade Britain would have been a horribly bloody mess and devastated the Army and/or Navy. An invasion was never feasible.

5. Declaring war on the US shortly after Pearl Harbor when the US had no plans to enter the war on the European front.
I would argue that last point. FDR wanted into Europe long ago, and US policies (first essentially allowing arms trade with Britain and France, but not Germany, then lend-lease) were clearly supporting the Allies. In addition, you are now Allied with Britain in a war against China. Taking pressure off of Britain could easily be used as an argument to get involved in Europe.
While it could have prevented the Europe first policy (which kind of fell through due to the capability of fighting in both theatres effectively) or delayed active participation, which may have bought Germany a bit more time or given Stalin more of Europe.
 
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