HOF Challenge Series I

[TheMeInTeam]

my suggestion to increase participation would be to allow multiple difficulty levels then adjust score based on the difficulty the game was played at. At the moment most of the games appear to be at immortalish difficulty and that will deter a lot of people from playing.

Actually a lot of them are fairly easy to "just win", via setting easy opposition, abusing permanent alliances, raging barbs+ gwall, kicking the sea level up + map crowding (limit high level AI land), and so forth. I got about 1/2 way through immortal EQM when I was barely an emperor player with some strategically placed game settings, then I got bored .

The AGG AI is a put-off to the inexperienced for different reasons, but for me the reason I don't like it is that the AI is slow on wonders and if early diplo or defenses are taken care of, the game seems easier rather than harder...but in THIS case the objective is not just to win but to do it sooner...AGG AI and tough leaders will slow that and force some dynamic thought from competitors.

Of all the games, the only one I see that's really HARD hard is the always war one. Toku culture requires either skill or good manipulation of the GH map script settings . I was going to win that easily before BUFFY screwed me, but the time wasn't going to be good (only got 1 religion + sistine and went the mass media path in a PA with 8 cities).

IMO monarch+ players should be able to at least WIN most of these games, given the ability to attempt them multiple times. How much easier do you want a "challenge" series to be?

Also, variable difficulties is hard to evaluate and police (same reason player ratings weren't used). What's to stop me from playing down to monarch (or lower) and using the advantages conferred to overcome the penalties and place higher than someone more skilled? Or if everyone did that, what's the point of variable difficulty?

The only workaround I can see is to run 2 or more series in tiers where anybody can compete, although good players will still dominate people playing at their level maybe there would at least be some incentive to actually seek competent opposition if there are simultaneous series. There's just one...kind of major caveat...extra work on the HoF guys.

So how do you want to do this? I think they struck a pretty good balance for the first attempt and am curious to see what kind of competition shows up. If ironhead/misotu/jesusin/shannonct/wastingtime (I could go on forever) run all 10 games it's doubtful I'll beat them, but I'd still prefer competing with them despite my unwillingness to play slowly than to go stomping on people who don't even know what spawnbusting is.

 

[Denniz]

my suggestion to increase participation would be to allow multiple difficulty levels then adjust score based on the difficulty the game was played at. At the moment most of the games appear to be at immortalish difficulty and that will deter a lot of people from playing.

For the record, the difficulties are as follows:

Challenge-I-01 Emperor
Challenge-I-02 Emperor
Challenge-I-03 Emperor
Challenge-I-04 Emperor
Challenge-I-05 Emperor
Challenge-I-06 Immortal
Challenge-I-07 Emperor
Challenge-I-08 Emperor
Challenge-I-09 Deity
Challenge-I-10 Deity

7 of 10 are at Emperor. The ones at higher difficulties tend to be easy wins.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yes, Denniz, but a lot of them are rigged to be considerably harder than any HoF that would be played intentionally otherwise, and some force leaders + victory conditions that make them harder than standard settings immortal (toku culture with a bunch of warmongers and religion whores dotted in). Of course it's winnable, but someone who plays at emperor and wins 50% of the time or so will struggle like hell. Still, with the right start (GH is very variable) even someone below emp could probably pull it off.

 

[kcd_swede]

Yes, Denniz, but a lot of them are rigged to be considerably harder than any HoF that would be played intentionally otherwise, and some force leaders + victory conditions that make them harder than standard settings immortal (toku culture with a bunch of warmongers and religion whores dotted in). Of course it's winnable, but someone who plays at emperor and wins 50% of the time or so will struggle like hell. Still, with the right start (GH is very variable) even someone below emp could probably pull it off.

There isn't a single one that I think I can win in one try, unless I get really lucky. There are only a matter of 4 or 5 that I don't think I could win in 3 or 4 serious attempts, though. So how much I submit will depend on how much time I can dedicate (but making the competition span longer would probably just make it less urgent/lower priority to try'em out).

So... if you want greater particpation from me... start accepting defeats.

 

[Fluroscent]

I know that one of the biggest advances I experienced that moved my comfort zone from monarch to emperor was to play with specific goals from the start. These challenges (well most of them) represent somewhat typical emperor level games, where you will have the luxury of knowing the goal beforehand.

Even players struggling at monarch should be able to crack some of them, and may learn a lot doing so.

Most will be made easier by some tricks and strategies that people will happily share in the discussion threads. As these are gauntlet type games, look for good/premium start positions and dont hesitate to start over, if it looks like the map generator created harder than usual settings (like isolated on continents or something).

Then, of course, a few will require either great patience or luck for even regular emperor level players.

I hope more people will give it a serious chance. IMO this is one of the coolest new competitive settings here. Way more fun than the QM/EQM stuff at least.

 

[WastinTime]

Suggestion for the results pages:

It takes 3 clicks to flip to the next set of results (click the combo box, choose an item, click Go). How about a "next" link to easily scan the 10 results pages? (or better, have an option to display all 10 and let us scroll down)

 

[Ozbenno]

Suggestion for the results pages:

It takes 3 clicks to flip to the next set of results (click the combo box, choose an item, click Go). How about a "next" link to easily scan the 10 results pages? (or better, have an option to display all 10 and let us scroll down)

We're finalising the results pages at the moment but this is a good idea and we'll try and incorporate it.

 

[Denniz]

I have put the the Challenge results page out there. There is a new option on the left side called "Challenge" for normal access to it. There are a few things that need tweaking before we start a new challenge in may but it should be okay for now.

I also change the Main page to the one with the speed showing up as it should. The old page is still there as: http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/indexold.php. I was going to add it as a tab on the new one but have run out of time for now.

Enjoy!

 

[cabert]

I have put the the Challenge results page out there. There is a new option on the left side called "Challenge" for normal access to it. There are a few things that need tweaking before we start a new challenge in may but it should be okay for now.

I also change the Main page to the one with the speed showing up as it should. The old page is still there as: http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/indexold.php. I was going to add it as a tab on the new one but have run out of time for now.

Enjoy!

I'm quite happy with it.

 

[kcd_swede]

Very nice! I hadn't realized how well Fluroscent is doing.

Game #9 will likely be the one to seperate the men from the boys, though.

 

[bestje]

new table looks good, much easier to follow whats going on

 

[shulec]

I like the table very much too! Especially now. I have included my favorite portion of the table

Rank Player Points
1 shulec 60.0 #4 #2 #1 #4 #1 #2 - #3 - -

Unfortunately, I believe I am like the leader at mile 2 of a marathon. I will cross the finish line, but nowhere near #1. Maybe it means that I am more addicted to civ than anybody else (well TMIT plays much faster, so he is a more efficient addict).

 

[Ozbenno]

Just a note on the Mod versions acceptable for this series. You can use either 3.19.002 or 3.19.003 for these games.

Normally we don't change the versions allowable while a gauntlet is running but given the timeframe of these games, we are making an exception.

 

[cabert]

Very nice! I hadn't realized how well Fluroscent is doing.

Game #9 will likely be the one to seperate the men from the boys, though.

for #9, you can go with a permanent alliance, so it doesn't seem so hard...

 

[shulec]

I have put the the Challenge results page out there. There is a new option on the left side called "Challenge" for normal access to it. There are a few things that need tweaking before we start a new challenge in may but it should be okay for now.

I also change the Main page to the one with the speed showing up as it should. The old page is still there as: http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/indexold.php. I was going to add it as a tab on the new one but have run out of time for now.

Enjoy!

Denniz, nice touch with the bold #1's. I would imagine that this is not an easy request to fulfill, but would it be possible for you to set up the challenger page to show finishes from the most recent batch of approved games in blue or red? I don't know the first thing about the programming involved, so if my request is ridiculous, forgive me. I realize that games may only be highlighted for a day or two, but I find it interesting to track what new games are added to the table.

 

[Ozbenno]

And BTW, congratulations shulec for being the first to complete all 10 games

 

[Denniz]

Denniz, nice touch with the bold #1's. I would imagine that this is not an easy request to fulfill, but would it be possible for you to set up the challenger page to show finishes from the most recent batch of approved games in blue or red? I don't know the first thing about the programming involved, so if my request is ridiculous, forgive me. I realize that games may only be highlighted for a day or two, but I find it interesting to track what new games are added to the table.

I'll have to look at it. If is possible I think I would use the "new" background like we do for the other pages. Of course, it may be a bit "clumpy" as there is no set schedule for when we check games.

 

[shulec]

Cool!

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I have put the the Challenge results page out there. There is a new option on the left side called "Challenge" for normal access to it. There are a few things that need tweaking before we start a new challenge in may but it should be okay for now.

I also change the Main page to the one with the speed showing up as it should. The old page is still there as: http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/indexold.php. I was going to add it as a tab on the new one but have run out of time for now.

Enjoy!

Both Pages look great, Denniz. A1 class presentation/extremely informative pages!

You need a raise, ASAP!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[strstrep]

In this forum, it says to use BUFFY 3.19.002, but on the HOF page, it says to use BUFFY 3.19.003. Is one of these correct, or is it an either-or option?