HOF Questions and Answers Thread

[ori]

again does the mod itself load? can you start a new game with the mod?
can you name one that did not work?

 

[Denniz]

You should be able to open any Vanilla HOF Game with the current HOF Mod.

For Warlords and BTS you need to have the same patch and HOF Mod installed. In addition, with the BTS patch 3.13 there are two different configurations possible for Vanilla and Warlords as the patch updated both. (i.e. those that own BTS and those that don't). Vanilla may still work regardless.

Basically, getting an older save to work can be difficult. There is nothing we can about it but about. Personally, I have 5 different installs going back to 1.61, just in case.

 

[HolyHandGrenade]

You should be able to open any Vanilla HOF Game with the current HOF Mod.

For Warlords and BTS you need to have the same patch and HOF Mod installed. In addition, with the BTS patch 3.13 there are two different configurations possible for Vanilla and Warlords as the patch updated both. (i.e. those that own BTS and those that don't). Vanilla may still work regardless.

Basically, getting an older save to work can be difficult. There is nothing we can about it but about. Personally, I have 5 different installs going back to 1.61, just in case.

What I can add is a step by step guide to get different installations with different patch levels:

1. uninstall everything you currently have installed (Civ4 off course)
2. do a fresh install of Vanilla
3. make a copy of this Vanilla-Installation and name it "civ4_orig"
4. patch the still installed Version to something you need (i.e. 1.61) and add the appropriate HoF-mod (i.e. 1.61)
5. rename the patched Version, currently with the standard name "Sid Meier Civilization 4" to "civ4-1.61"
6. copy "civ4_orig" to the former original Name "Sid Meier Civilization 4"

At this point you have 3 installations:
- "civ4_orig" : The unpatched version 1.0
- "civ4-1.61" : patched to version 1.61 incl. HoF-Mod
- "Sid Meier Civilization 4" : patched to version 1.61 incl. HoF-Mod referenced by windows-registry

To get a 1.74 version you can simply repeat steps 4-5.
To get Warlords and BtS you can use the same method:

7. copy "civ4_orig" to the former original Name "Sid Meier Civilization 4"
8. install Warlord or BtS
9. make a copy of this Installation and name it, i.e. "civ4_warlord_orig"
10. similar to 4-5 above

With all these installations you can create Shortcuts on your Desktop to point to the various versions:

Civ4 -> "C:\Games\Sid Meier Civilization 4\Civilization4.exe"
Civ4 (HoF) -> "C:\Games\Sid Meier Civilization 4\Civilization4.exe" mod="HOF-1.74.002"
Civ4 1.61 (HoF) -> "C:\Games\civ4-1.61\Civilization4.exe" mod="HOF-1.61.011"
Civ4 Warlords -> "C:\Games\Sid Meier Civilization 4\Warlords\Civ4Warlords.exe"
Civ4 Warlords (HoF) -> "C:\Games\Sid Meier Civilization 4\Warlords\Civ4Warlords.exe" mod="HOF-2.13.002"
Civ4 Warlords 2.08 (HoF) -> "C:\Games\civ4-2.08\Warlords\Civ4Warlords.exe" mod="HOF-2.08.004"
Civ4 BtS -> "C:\Games\Sid Meier Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe"
Civ4 BtS (HoF) -> "C:\Games\Sid Meier Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe" mod="HOF-3.13.001"
Civ4 BtS 3.03 (HoF) -> "C:\Games\civ4-3.03\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe" mod="HOF-3.03.001"

I tried to explain it as deep as I think is enough, if something is not clear or missing, please correct it or ask again

 

[senor_k]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered many times before, but search isn't playing nice with me. What's the difference between a time victory and a score victory?

 

[Denniz]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered many times before, but search isn't playing nice with me. What's the difference between a time victory and a score victory?

Time victory is winning the game by lasting until the end without you or the AI winning another way.

Score is simply the high scores from any victory type. Typically Domination or Conquest score the highest.

 

[dutchfire]

My BtS patch 3.17 didn't install in the correct location, so I manually had to copy some files. It seems that went a bit wrong. I've tried the assets checker and I get the following errors for Vanilla:
Assets\CvGameCore.dll
Assets\XML\Buildings\CIV4BuildingsInfos.xml
Assets\XML\GlobalDefines.xml

I don't get any Beyond the Sword errors at all. Is it right that I only need the right version of these 3 files (these three were also among the ones I've copy-pasted, so I probably did something wrong there), and what would be the quickest and easiest way to get these files?

edit: After some more work on it, Beyond the Sword now shows up, with no errors D), and I've gotten the correctCvGameCore.dll, but I still don't have the right xml files for those two. I'm also getting error messages for the 1.74.SGOTM5 mod, which basically should be a separate mod. And of course I'm getting errors for not having the 1.74.003 mod, but I don't need that to play BtS, do I?

 

[Denniz]

My BtS patch 3.17 didn't install in the correct location, so I manually had to copy some files. It seems that went a bit wrong. I've tried the assets checker and I get the following errors for Vanilla:
Assets\CvGameCore.dll
Assets\XML\Buildings\CIV4BuildingsInfos.xml
Assets\XML\GlobalDefines.xml

I don't get any Beyond the Sword errors at all. Is it right that I only need the right version of these 3 files (these three were also among the ones I've copy-pasted, so I probably did something wrong there), and what would be the quickest and easiest way to get these files?

edit: After some more work on it, Beyond the Sword now shows up, with no errors D), and I've gotten the correctCvGameCore.dll, but I still don't have the right xml files for those two. I'm also getting error messages for the 1.74.SGOTM5 mod, which basically should be a separate mod. And of course I'm getting errors for not having the 1.74.003 mod, but I don't need that to play BtS, do I?

It not required to have the 1.73.003 mod unless you are playing vanilla. You get the messages about 1.74.003 and 1.74.SGOTM5 as the program doesn't bother to check what's installed. It just checks the highest HOF mod version in your mods folder against the 1.74.003 asset list. (I think the programmer was a little lazy. )

I don't think you will have a problem with the Vanilla xml files. You might want to see if you get the BTS in-game HOF Warnings about CRCs not matching. BTS does use some of the Vanilla assets. I am not sure how the CRCs are calculated for BTS.

If you get the warnings, you may want to try re-installing the 1.74 patch. If that doesn't work you'll have to re-install from scratch and patch up again.

 

[dutchfire]

Well, I'm mainly looking to play in the Democracy Game (Succession game style game), would me playing with other versions of vanilla .xml-files impact that at all?

 

[Denniz]

Well, I'm mainly looking to play in the Democracy Game (Succession game style game), would me playing with other versions of vanilla .xml-files impact that at all?

You might have trouble opening the save if those files are part of the checksum. There are BTS versions that override the vanilla ones but it depends what gets included in the checksums.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I thought the maximum number of opponents for a Standard map is 10,
but I ran into the following HOF game with 11:

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?entryID=12044

Can someone please explain this apparent discrepency?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Methos]

I thought the maximum number of opponents for a Standard map is 10,
but I ran into the following HOF game with 11:

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?entryID=12044

Can someone please explain this apparent discrepency?

Sun Tzu Wu

He started his game with ten opponents, but in 965 AD a colony was created which makes the eleventh civ. Due to colonies, we only make sure the start of the game began with the correct number of opponents, not the end of the game.

493 965 AD Kamino ST XVII has placed Qin Shi Huang in charge of their overseas colonies of China
Qin Shi Huang has agreed to become a vassal state of Kamino ST XVII

 

[Conquistador 63]

A colony was formed. See log:
"Kamino ST XVII has placed Qin Shi Huang in charge of their overseas colonies of China
Qin Shi Huang has agreed to become a vassal state of Kamino ST XVII"

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

When running Map Finder such that it saves every map it generates, it will occasionally complain about a duplicate file and puts up a requester asking whether it is OK to overwrite a file.

The last time it did this, I noticed that it had written only the txt file before putting up the requester. After I clicked OK to overwrite the file, it overwrote the txt file and wrote the jpg file, but no CivBeyondSwordSave file was generated. Maps before/after this erroneously written map have all three files.

I'm running on Vista.

Has anyone else encountered this error before?

--- Potential work-around ---

Defaulting to overwriting or skipping the file without putting up a requester would be a good work-around, but I don't know how to do that or even know whether that is possible to do. It bugs me that Map Finder puts up a requester rather than doing its job of finding maps, because I'm not usually available to baby sit it.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

He started his game with ten opponents, but in 965 AD a colony was created which makes the eleventh civ. Due to colonies, we only make sure the start of the game began with the correct number of opponents, not the end of the game.

Shouldn't the listed opponents be only the ones the game started with? If new opponents are created via Colonies, perhaps they should be listed under a new heading like Colonies?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Denniz]

When running Map Finder such that it saves every map it generates, it will occasionally complain about a duplicate file and puts up a requester asking whether it is OK to overwrite a file.

The last time it did this, I noticed that it had written only the txt file before putting up the requester. After I clicked OK to overwrite the file, it overwrote the txt file and wrote the jpg file, but no CivBeyondSwordSave file was generated. Maps before/after this erroneously written map have all three files.

I'm running on Vista.

Has anyone else encountered this error before?

--- Potential work-around ---

Defaulting to overwriting or skipping the file without putting up a requester would be a good work-around, but I don't know how to do that or even know whether that is possible to do. It bugs me that Map Finder puts up a requester rather than doing its job of finding maps, because I'm not usually available to baby sit it.

Sun Tzu Wu

It is a bug but I didn't really expect to get any duplicate names as the file name includes date & time plus counters. How many maps are you generating? You might try spreading the files around to different save directories.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

It is a bug but I didn't really expect to get any duplicate names as the file name includes date & time plus counters. How many maps are you generating? You might try spreading the files around to different save directories.

I'm saving all generated maps by using a rule set that always succeeds. I generally keep running in the same map save directory until it contains nearly 4665 maps (the limit on what the Map Finder application will display correctly).

It does not appear to be overwriting an existing map. It seems to a rare timing error where the txt file is written, the software gets confused, tries to write the same txt file again, opens a requester when it detects that the file already exists and just sits there waiting for a response to the requester.

The date and time down to the second are included in the filename, so how could a new map ever have the same name as an older map? Map Finder is generating a new map no faster than about once every five seconds, so I don't see how a duplicate map filename would ever be possible unless the clock gets reset (which never happens unless its on purpose).

The duplicate file error is rare; it has happened to me less than about six times. I finally complained about it when it happened two days in a row.

When the error does occur, what requester response do you recommend? Overwrite the map or skip it?

Thanks,

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Denniz]

When the error does occur, what requester response do you recommend? Overwrite the map or skip it?

You probably should cancel since it is could be trying to write the new file with the last file name.

The requester is civ4's. We just surfaced the save to python so the mapfinder code could call it. I think the actual code to create the file is in the exe rather than the SDK. There is no code in python to check for the txt or jpg file already existing. For what it is worth, the order it writes is txt, save, and jpg.

It may be a compatability issue. Do you run civ4 with compatability mode for xp? The only other thing I can think of is to give it some more time between regenerations.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

You probably should cancel since it is could be trying to write the new file with the last file name.

I'm confused. If the filename is composed of the date and time down to the second and counters, how can the new file name be the same as the last file name?

I'll try to provide more diagnostic info next time, or should I not bother (due to the rare conditions that cause this bug)? You probably don't want to bother fixing it anyway (due to its rarity and limited effect - "hangs" MF)?

The requester is civ4's. We just surfaced the save to python so the mapfinder code could call it. I think the actual code to create the file is in the exe rather than the SDK. There is no code in python to check for the txt or jpg file already existing. For what it is worth, the order it writes is txt, save, and jpg.

Last time it happened, I selected overwrite and only the txt appeared to be written to the MF save directory.

It may be a compatibility issue. Do you run civ4 with compatibility mode for xp? The only other thing I can think of is to give it some more time between regenerations.

What is "compatibility mode for xp"? I just have MS Windows Vista Home Premium, so maybe that's not available to me? Beyond The Sword is required to run on Vista and it is a Microsoft "approved" application for Visa, so why would I run "compatibility mode for xp" for BTS, even if I knew how to do it?

I currently have MF pause for 2 seconds before starting the next map generation. Do you really think it would help to increase that?

BTW, what happens if the pause between map generations is 0 seconds? I've noticed that the Alt-X doesn't have to be pressed during the pause between map generations. (Alt-X can be pressed while a map is being generated and seems to take effect after the current map is completed, but as a result the current map is _not_ saved.)

Thanks for your help and explanations.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Denniz]

I'm confused. If the filename is composed of the date and time down to the second and counters, how can the new file name be the same as the last file name?

I'll try to provide more diagnostic info next time, or should I not bother (due to the rare conditions that cause this bug)? You probably don't want to bother fixing it anyway (due to its rarity and limited effect - "hangs" MF)?

Last time it happened, I selected overwrite and only the txt appeared to be written to the MF save directory.

I don't have access to the actually save file creation code. The only way I can think of for the message to come up is if the previous file name was used some how. Next time check to see if the previous file got overwritten.

What is "compatibility mode for xp"? I just have MS Windows Vista Home Premium, so maybe that's not available to me? Beyond The Sword is required to run on Vista and it is a Microsoft "approved" application for Visa, so why would I run "compatibility mode for xp" for BTS, even if I knew how to do it?

It is a vista thing. If you right-click on the exe, select the properties and click on the compatability tab, you will see a compatability mode box. Try selecting XP from the dropdown there.

I currently have MF pause for 2 seconds before starting the next map generation. Do you really think it would help to increase that?

I believe that Civ4 is multi-threaded so if you don't give it enough time to update wierd things could happen.

BTW, what happens if the pause between map generations is 0 seconds? I've noticed that the Alt-X doesn't have to be pressed during the pause between map generations. (Alt-X can be pressed while a map is being generated and seems to take effect after the current map is completed, but as a result the current map is _not_ saved.)

The delay is to allow civ4 sometime to do it's screen updates and other things.

BTW, if there had been a warranty, you would have offically voided it.

 

[BLubmuz]

Info, please.
The old HoF mods in the mods page are compatible with the updated games or do they work only with the version they was created for?
I suppose the latter , but just to be sure.
Thank you.