eric_A
Deity
Pre-turn rules copied to post #2.
HOF V3 - "From Here to Eternity"
- Thread starter eric_A
- Start date
aksully
Deity
I know there have been comments about my post about combat results...I've copied an example of a summary of a Japanese turn from a previous game as an example;
Pearl Harbor:
Zero Fighter and Torpedo Bomber shot down
two fighters damaged on ground
two ships damaged in dock
NE of Pearl Harbor:
IJN Torpedo Bomber sinks US DD Ward
IJN TB sinks US 4 Stacker
IJN TB sinks US DD
IJN Dive Bomber sinks US DD
Vladivostok:
BBs destroyed plane
SW of Peking:
IJA Inf Div kills Red Army unit
Sian:
11th Army 13/14 kills MA CID
City captured
11th Army kills MA Militia
IJA Light Tank Div captures undefended Lanchow
The rest of the Chinese defenders are fleeing south. The Japanese army is in pursuit.
North China Army kills MA CID north of Ichang
Sumatra:
IJA Inf Div 4/4 kills MA Militia
Borneo:
IJA Inf Div kills MA Militia
Pandang:
IJN SNLF kills MA Militia
Batavia:
SNLF Army kills MA Inf Div and 2 MA Militias
City captured
IJN I-boat sinks MA Trasport south of city
Surabaya:
IJA Marine Div kills MA Militia
City captured
Darwin:
destroyed bomber and damaged biplane
Coral Sea:
DD Mutsuki sinks CW DD
Forgive the length of this but it is a good example of how to report a turn's combat results. This would be considered the minimum. Some of us would add more in terms specific locations using say the Coral Sea action above to read....
Coral Sea:
DD Mutsuki sinks CW DD 3 Ts SE of Port Moresby
where 3 Ts means 3 Tiles Southeast of some landmark
I know that in the opening moves it requires extra notetaking...but unless Eric has different expectations for this game...it is expected. And though somewhat timeconsuming...there is a great deal of satisfaction
as one LISTS his victories for all to see! AND terribly demoralizing 
for those whom read about their glorious troops dying in battle!
And in regards to this...Today in the US we celebrate Veterans Day and this Sunday is Remembrance Sunday in the UK, and some other EU countries. It is a time to think about the millions of people who have given their lives for freedom and liberty. Not all are as lucky as us playing this game. If it is within your heart and belief to do so...take a moment to remember their sacrifices for our countries...and us! If you see a Vet in your area..say Thank You.
Eric, I imagine Canada celebrates Rembrance Sunday too?
Cheers to All...and now.....Once more unto the breach, dear friends!!
Sully
Pearl Harbor:
Zero Fighter and Torpedo Bomber shot down
two fighters damaged on ground
two ships damaged in dock
NE of Pearl Harbor:
IJN Torpedo Bomber sinks US DD Ward
IJN TB sinks US 4 Stacker
IJN TB sinks US DD
IJN Dive Bomber sinks US DD
Vladivostok:
BBs destroyed plane
SW of Peking:
IJA Inf Div kills Red Army unit
Sian:
11th Army 13/14 kills MA CID
City captured
11th Army kills MA Militia
IJA Light Tank Div captures undefended Lanchow
The rest of the Chinese defenders are fleeing south. The Japanese army is in pursuit.
North China Army kills MA CID north of Ichang
Sumatra:
IJA Inf Div 4/4 kills MA Militia
Borneo:
IJA Inf Div kills MA Militia
Pandang:
IJN SNLF kills MA Militia
Batavia:
SNLF Army kills MA Inf Div and 2 MA Militias
City captured
IJN I-boat sinks MA Trasport south of city
Surabaya:
IJA Marine Div kills MA Militia
City captured
Darwin:
destroyed bomber and damaged biplane
Coral Sea:
DD Mutsuki sinks CW DD
Forgive the length of this but it is a good example of how to report a turn's combat results. This would be considered the minimum. Some of us would add more in terms specific locations using say the Coral Sea action above to read....
Coral Sea:
DD Mutsuki sinks CW DD 3 Ts SE of Port Moresby
where 3 Ts means 3 Tiles Southeast of some landmark
I know that in the opening moves it requires extra notetaking...but unless Eric has different expectations for this game...it is expected. And though somewhat timeconsuming...there is a great deal of satisfaction
as one LISTS his victories for all to see! AND terribly demoralizing for those whom read about their glorious troops dying in battle!And in regards to this...Today in the US we celebrate Veterans Day and this Sunday is Remembrance Sunday in the UK, and some other EU countries. It is a time to think about the millions of people who have given their lives for freedom and liberty. Not all are as lucky as us playing this game. If it is within your heart and belief to do so...take a moment to remember their sacrifices for our countries...and us! If you see a Vet in your area..say Thank You.
Eric, I imagine Canada celebrates Rembrance Sunday too?
Cheers to All...and now.....Once more unto the breach, dear friends!!
Sully
Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
Thanks for the example, Sully. Alt-tabbing to record combat actions after each combat ought to do the trick, but it changes the pace of a turn compared to solo games. OTOH, it's not much different than keeping detailed combat logs for always war succession games, so I think we should be able to adjust 
Bowsling
Deity
Up in Canada, we have Remembrance Day today as well.
Actually logging the combat won't be an issue, given that I know what I'm killing/getting killed by..
What I was talking about is when you bomb a city and a ship or plane is targeted. That way you have to go looking through the civlopedia and finding the best match, hoping that the pediaicon is accurate and the unit isn't named.
Actually logging the combat won't be an issue, given that I know what I'm killing/getting killed by..
What I was talking about is when you bomb a city and a ship or plane is targeted. That way you have to go looking through the civlopedia and finding the best match, hoping that the pediaicon is accurate and the unit isn't named.
Elephantium
Malcolm was a very good cat.
Heh. I'm playing a solo WW2 campaign as the US, and my bombing missions against Japan keep destroying 2-3 distinct airplane models. I'm STILL not quite sure which one is which 
Ships will be easier, I think; modpack battleships have a very different look from destroyers and even cruisers.
Ships will be easier, I think; modpack battleships have a very different look from destroyers and even cruisers.
eric_A
Deity
Force 9 gale batters Hokkaido, no damage
Malaria outbreak in Borneo destroys rubber colony (and Militia).
Malaria outbreak in Borneo destroys rubber colony (and Militia).
aksully
Deity
Eric, Could you clarify a few things on Nature...
First in Post #4 you same that "some sea nature units" have bombard capability...which ones and how much? Now when a nature sea unit bombards a land tile it should disband/be eliminated right?
And I'm confused with how Malaria can destroy an entity like a colony and a Militia? That seems to go against the rule of no razing? Now does this malaria unit become eliminated once it attacks? And how does one defend or fight back against malaria now that they are invisible?
Thanks!
Sully
First in Post #4 you same that "some sea nature units" have bombard capability...which ones and how much? Now when a nature sea unit bombards a land tile it should disband/be eliminated right?
And I'm confused with how Malaria can destroy an entity like a colony and a Militia? That seems to go against the rule of no razing? Now does this malaria unit become eliminated once it attacks? And how does one defend or fight back against malaria now that they are invisible?
Thanks!
Sully
Bowsling
Deity
I think he meant a resource colony, not a city.
eric_A
Deity
Sully:
For more on bombardment see:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8210717&postcount=92
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8225652&postcount=95
If the militia loses the battle against the malaria, the colony is
auto-razed. Nature units cannot attack cities, other tiles are fair game.
Nature units cannot raze roads airbases or rails, they have no raze button but
there is no way to prevent the auto-raze.
As for tactics for dealing with invisible units, they are the same as
you would employ if you are playing Germany and have to deal with
partisans and the resistance.
Yes, these little buggers are quite a pain in the .... Keep track of your workers and roads every turn, and if one is missing, you know where to look. Workers btw, are a very good "partisan-detectors": if you suspect a partisan on a non-roaded tile, you don't need to waste the movement of a fighting unit in order to check. Just send a worker there. If he can't go onto that tile, well you found it. If he can, the turn is not wasted either, he can just repair the road there next turn.
Hasdrubal Barca
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2007
- Messages
- 1,441
What´s the range of detection on those border guards, if i recall it was 1 square...
muzbang
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2007
- Messages
- 319
Hi guys, i'm back
,
but i'm affraid that we have to redo
this turn because of unrespected rules for that turn...
3 civs have done some mistakes with that rules :
Explanation with some examples :
Near Singapore, British ships :
Here is a screen from the biq file :
And the actual position :
There is only 1 ship at sea, instead of 3 that can't go to a city moving 4 tiles like it's allowed...
Near Palembang, Minor Allies sub :
Biq :
Actual situation :
A sub (not allowed to move) is supposed to be where is my boat... but is not here.
Near Padang,one more Minor Allies sub
Biq :
Actual position :
Another Sub that was not supposed to move
And... Finaly, USA ships...
there is 3 stack south of Pearl Harbor at the begining ( 2 + 8 + 7), that can only move 4 tiles...
Within the range they are supposed to be, i only see 7 + 4 ships..... 6 ships moved more than 4 tiles....
I prepared my attack with meticulously, analysing the Biq file.... so that i can spot such moves.
So... in our turn, Elephantium (MA) is the first that have to replay that turn (without moving subs)... then... Sully (British) and M60A3TTS (USA) will have to play again moving only 4 tiles for ships at sea.....
Japan have the advantage of attacking (and i try to use of this advantage), that's why there are rules likes this... but it's seems to be hard to respect....
Maybe setting the game to block all units (but japaneses one), would be more efficient (if you put away the 2d turn bug that freeze all units for 2 turns instead of only one....)
Hope you all understand
, but i'm affraid that we have to redo
this turn because of unrespected rules for that turn...3 civs have done some mistakes with that rules :
Explanation with some examples :
Near Singapore, British ships :
Here is a screen from the biq file :
And the actual position :
There is only 1 ship at sea, instead of 3 that can't go to a city moving 4 tiles like it's allowed...
Near Palembang, Minor Allies sub :
Biq :
Actual situation :
A sub (not allowed to move) is supposed to be where is my boat... but is not here.
Near Padang,one more Minor Allies sub
Biq :
Actual position :
Another Sub that was not supposed to move
And... Finaly, USA ships...
there is 3 stack south of Pearl Harbor at the begining ( 2 + 8 + 7), that can only move 4 tiles...
Within the range they are supposed to be, i only see 7 + 4 ships..... 6 ships moved more than 4 tiles....
I prepared my attack with meticulously, analysing the Biq file.... so that i can spot such moves.
So... in our turn, Elephantium (MA) is the first that have to replay that turn (without moving subs)... then... Sully (British) and M60A3TTS (USA) will have to play again moving only 4 tiles for ships at sea.....
Japan have the advantage of attacking (and i try to use of this advantage), that's why there are rules likes this... but it's seems to be hard to respect....
Maybe setting the game to block all units (but japaneses one), would be more efficient (if you put away the 2d turn bug that freeze all units for 2 turns instead of only one....)
Hope you all understand
Bowsling
Deity
Hah! The inefficiencies of democracy are catching up to the fools! 
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
I see no pictures. Does anyone else?
aksully
Deity
Uhhhmm Muz...Reference Post #81...I was allowed to move BECAUSE of Germany moving ships FIRST!! So CW movement of 3 ships was allowed!
Sully
No...I don't see any screenshots either.
Sully
No...I don't see any screenshots either.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
@ Muzbang: Actually, truth be told I don't understand.
The rules allowing Japan attacking first was for the purpose of hitting Pearl Harbor, not take advantage of the fact that you know where my carrier fleets are, along with my subs in the Phillipines Sea and the other two ships you will apparently take out. What happened historically was the result of a surprise attack. If you're going to park your armada next to my carriers, then your cover should be consider blown and I should be free to come out of Pearl with everything I have to attack you, along with my carrier forces.
I accept the fact that such a rule does not apply and you are perfectly within the rules to park anything you like anywhere. But I also recognize that I have to lose a lot of ships not because you applied any great gameplay, but that you have access to a bic file.
Evidently you aren't even looking at the right file, because I only have 11 ships south of Pearl. And they moved 4.
So given the fact you are already getting an unfair advantage, and that we've waited while you finished your vacation, will you find it within your heart to please start this war rather than make us go backwards?
The rules allowing Japan attacking first was for the purpose of hitting Pearl Harbor, not take advantage of the fact that you know where my carrier fleets are, along with my subs in the Phillipines Sea and the other two ships you will apparently take out. What happened historically was the result of a surprise attack. If you're going to park your armada next to my carriers, then your cover should be consider blown and I should be free to come out of Pearl with everything I have to attack you, along with my carrier forces.
I accept the fact that such a rule does not apply and you are perfectly within the rules to park anything you like anywhere. But I also recognize that I have to lose a lot of ships not because you applied any great gameplay, but that you have access to a bic file.
Evidently you aren't even looking at the right file, because I only have 11 ships south of Pearl. And they moved 4.
So given the fact you are already getting an unfair advantage, and that we've waited while you finished your vacation, will you find it within your heart to please start this war rather than make us go backwards?
aksully
Deity
These couple of exchanges are pretty interesting. But first off I would just say that we need to move forward..not go back. Now..as a frequent player of the IJN..the huge advantage of the first turn is that....You KNOW where all Allied ships are at the start of your turn. And with that knowledge...you exploit it...rightfully so and within the rules. It is an advantage that...in reality did not exist for the IJN.
Now the November "Pre-turn" was something I mentioned to Eric. Since as the game was beforehand, and within the restrictions of the Civ game engine...moves the Japanese made in December historically..could not be made in December by the Japanese player. This was related to amphib attacks. So Eric put in the pre-turn to allow Jap troops in Port to be loaded onto transports and make historical moves in December. That doesn't mean the Jap player has to follow history...just means he has the ability to do so in lines of what could be done come December.
Now maybe something to consider for the next revision are these;
1) Allow all nations to move their units at sea other than..the Pacific Fleet at Pearl and other ships that were in Port except for (2 below
2) Why restrict the Germans and the CW not to move units in November? They were already at war so they should be able to move all units without restrictions?
3) All units in CHina should be free to move since they were already at war.
I think the key here is that maybe it would be best to allow the Allies to move their ships already at sea to limit the huge non-historical advantage that the IJN player has knowing EXACTLY where all the ALlies ships are...especially the US CVs!!!
Something for Eric to consider.....
Muz my good friend..why not just get the game going so we can move forward?
Sully
Now the November "Pre-turn" was something I mentioned to Eric. Since as the game was beforehand, and within the restrictions of the Civ game engine...moves the Japanese made in December historically..could not be made in December by the Japanese player. This was related to amphib attacks. So Eric put in the pre-turn to allow Jap troops in Port to be loaded onto transports and make historical moves in December. That doesn't mean the Jap player has to follow history...just means he has the ability to do so in lines of what could be done come December.
Now maybe something to consider for the next revision are these;
1) Allow all nations to move their units at sea other than..the Pacific Fleet at Pearl and other ships that were in Port except for (2 below
2) Why restrict the Germans and the CW not to move units in November? They were already at war so they should be able to move all units without restrictions?
3) All units in CHina should be free to move since they were already at war.
I think the key here is that maybe it would be best to allow the Allies to move their ships already at sea to limit the huge non-historical advantage that the IJN player has knowing EXACTLY where all the ALlies ships are...especially the US CVs!!!
Something for Eric to consider.....
Muz my good friend..why not just get the game going so we can move forward?
Sully
Hasdrubal Barca
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2007
- Messages
- 1,441
Play ball, improvise and adapt 
.
.
M60A3TTS
Ex-treadhead
Now that I think about it, the 6 "missing" units aren't ships. It's the airplanes on the carriers.
muzbang
Prince
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2007
- Messages
- 319
okay guys.
I will play in the afternoon.
FOr the US, mistake is mine
For British ships... what can i say ? Germany saves those ships !!
So i fact, only 2 minor allies subs have moved...
would it be fair that those 2 subs come back next turn where they were supposed to be as i can attack them ?
I will play in the afternoon.
FOr the US, mistake is mine
For British ships... what can i say ? Germany saves those ships !!
So i fact, only 2 minor allies subs have moved...
would it be fair that those 2 subs come back next turn where they were supposed to be as i can attack them ?
