Hot news!Multiplayer will come with in an official add on!

[CyberChrist]

Originally posted by XPav
Hint #1: Game designers don't need ideas. They've got enough.

This is taken straight from the official Civ3 site, I could find many more like it though so please stop speculating on issues clearly beyond your sphere of comprehension.

"...Based on feedback from the mod and scenario community we will make additional improvements and incorporate new features...."

Originally posted by XPav
MP was never promised, and was never in the game.
...
Please find a list of things that Firaxis promised. I want a link.

Heh heh, there are the promises in black and white and then there are promises hidden betweeen the lines. Firaxis have been asked numerous times about MP support and not ONCE in any interview or official release have they said that MP support was not going to be a part of the first release - except 1 month before the release when they suddenly announced that they were sadly not able to include the MP part with the first release anyway(Firaxis naturally also altered the part about multiplayer support in the FAQ to match this).

That doesn't mean that there were nothing in black and white to indicate that MP was definetly going to be in part of the first release, sadly I have not been able to access the forums on Apolyton where the debates with the Firaxis officals took place (have they been deleted alltogether or is this just something to do with Apolytons recent problems?)

Anyway, they clearly stated there would be MP support on the 2001 E3 show.

This is taken from WarGamers E3 Preview of Civ3
"Civilization III will feature 16 civilizations out of the box and current plans are that 9 of these will be playable on the same map at the same time, either as human multi-player opponents or quite adept Artificial Intelligence (AI). "

While you might argue that some of these features presented at E3 have later been altered and that the MP part might also have been altered, then we have always been officially updated with these other changes - not so with the MP support (until 1 month before release).


Here is another link to the Ask the Team section on the official Civ3 site Play Nice with others - it is on the bottom of the page.

Please note that the question and answer is PRE-RELEASE and that the answer says nothing about MP support not being part of the first relesase, even though the question leaves little doubt that is what the customer is clearly interested in.

Originally posted by XPav
Then I'll listen.

Why do I doubt this?

This will be the last time I will bother to post on this matter, as I doubt those of you that already share my view need further facts or references, and I know all this will have no effect whatsoever to - and will be summarily dismissed by - all those of you perfectly willing to pucker up and kiss the darker recesses of Firaxis and Co's collective bottom - regardless of what they do and do not do.


Time to play

 

[Trancas]

This is really enough...

Civ 3 is a good game, sure. But is it up to date with other games out there in respect to graphics, sounds, speed, music, multiplayer capability, programming technology....

The answer is clearly NOT.

I stopped playing CIV3 and started playing other games I had and realized it in no time. Started playing Baldur's Gate II and Empire Earth. Really. The difference is huge. It must be recognized.

On top of that add the features that were to be but never were. Multiplayer, for example. This is too much. Other strategy games DO have multiplayer in their initial release... Another thing that hurts is that they have on CIV3 official site an ad refering to "16 civilizations .. something". Come on! Playing with 16 civs is ultra slow, and besides the foreign advisor screen was not meant to deal with 16 civs. Don't they have decency?

On the other day I wrote to infogrames support and asked how could I disable the initial video. As many of you have noticed, it is a pain in the *ss because it take so much time to load. Compare it to any other "decent game" aka Empire Earth, Baldur's Gate II - are the examples I experienced: both of them have intro videos and logos. On both of them the video quality is better and you can actually click the video out of your way. And much faster to reach the main menu either. The infogrames response was, and I quote "Just delete intro.bik". Oh really. I DIDN'T ASK how I could delete it, I asked how I could BYPASS IT.

Firaxis has really disappointed me. I will never buy any other game of this company. I'll just try a hacked copy. I simply LOST MY CONFINDENCE in them.

Sorry if this was too long, but I had to scream.

Be well all of you and have a good year.

Bruno Trancas

 

[Zachriel]

I love Civ3. I would gladly pay double for the enjoyment I have received. I would gladly pay for an add-on, and want to buy it now, not later.

But like siege warfare in the middle ages, you have to be patient.

Catapult fwack. Missed the target.
Fwack. Missed again.
Fwack. Missed again.
Fwack. Hit a cow.
Fwack. Missed again.
Fwack. Ouch, that hurt.
Fwack, fwack, fwack, . . .

 

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by Zachriel
I love Civ3. I would gladly pay double for the enjoyment I have received. I would gladly pay for an add-on, and want to buy it now, not later.

But like siege warfare in the middle ages, you have to be patient.

Catapult fwack. Missed the target.
Fwack. Missed again.
Fwack. Missed again.
Fwack. Hit a cow.
Fwack. Missed again.
Fwack. Ouch, that hurt.
Fwack, fwack, fwack, . . .

No offense but what game are you playing? Have you played civ 2 before? Have you tried playing on a Hugh world with less civs then your supposed like 8? The game will crash over and over again on 230x230 world with 8 civs at indistrial or modern ages. I have noticed that no one has finished a game with 8 civs on a hugh world. How can you love a game that does not function properly? Or maybe you don't know how the game should look or play. I find anyone saying this is a good fun game is missing something. I have had nothing but problems with the game just like the MAJORITY of people who are complaining. It seems the only ones who are not having trouble are war mongering players. If your a empire builder this game will present many dumb ass problems caused by poor programming talent. Try not going to war, keep building cities and you will run into big problems, maybe even a crash. I have a list of 60 bugs before the patch, 20 more after the patch, and who knows what else. I build computers for a living too. High end PC has no effect on the time between turns. 8 civs takes about 5-6 minutes on a 1ghz 256 meg AMD PC. Civ3 is a big joke compared to the hype. Don't get me wrong I want the game to be good, I have waited forever for it too come out. Civ2 was my favorite game too. Civ3 is the biggest disappointment of ANY game I have seen to date! :crazyeyes

Desert Fox

 

[RogueNine]

Originally posted by Desert Fox

Or maybe you don't know how the game should look or play. I find anyone saying this is a good fun game is missing something.

He said he was playing Civ 3, and that he loved it. Why can't you accept that he enjoys it? This kind of attitude really bugs me. We all get that you don't like the game as it is now. Fine. Thats YOUR OPINION. Not a worldwide fact. Learn the difference, because its clear that some here DO enjoy the game.

 

[RogueNine]

Originally posted by Trancas

On the other day I wrote to infogrames support and asked how could I disable the initial video. The infogrames response was, and I quote "Just delete intro.bik". Oh really. I DIDN'T ASK how I could delete it, I asked how I could BYPASS IT.

LMAO, your not expecting much, are you? You asked how you could get rid of the intro. The tech guy told you. How is he supposed to know that you might want to use it later? Or that you aren't smart enough to realize that you could just move it to another folder on your harddrive? Or that you could just re-install the game later if you want it back? Yah, what an ass that tech support guy was.

As many of you have noticed, it is a pain in the *ss because it take so much time to load.

The intro screen loads in 2 seconds for me. No joke, its actually the fastest loading intro of any game on my harddrive. If I may ask, what kind of computer do you have?

Firaxis has really disappointed me. I will never buy any other game of this company. I'll just try a hacked copy. I simply LOST MY CONFINDENCE in them.

They made a game that is acceptable. (I say acceptable because others DO like it, so its not like its some piece of garbage that everyone is laughing at. It IS a good game to some people.) YOU just don't like it. So because a software company made a product that YOU didn't like, your going to steal any other game that they make in the future. I love your justification for being a thief. I hope you end up in jail where you belong.

 

[Caligula]

I´d be more willing to consider buying such an add-on if Civ3 were not inferior in design and operation to SMAC. I´m sorry to say that a version of SMAC with historical civs/techs/units, instead of those boring imaginary ones, would have been better than Civ3. SMAC was also faster and less buggy.

 

[Eliezar]

One thing that is 100 percent true is that the vast majority of people will complain about anything if you give them the chance. Sure there are things I would change about Civ III, but complaining about its performance on huge maps or that the box you bought didn't come with multiplayer even when the box doesn't say it comes with multiplayer is just whining to whine.

You want to see a bad product put out? Did anybody buy Ultima IX? That was the only computer game I have ever purchased that was truly a mess. Dozens of crashing bugs, terrible video lag, and bugs that would cause you to have to return to a saved game 2 to 6 hours previous. What happened with Ultima IX? They mailed everybody a new cd that fixed the majority of the problems a few months after the game came out.

Should multiplayer be expected in a turn based game like Civilization III? Since somewhere between 85 and 95 percent of the people who own Civ III will be playing it as a single player game I don't think it is necessary. I'm sorry, but this isn't starcraft where there will be over 1 million games played online over a weekend. If Firaxis set up a civilization III server where people could play Civ III online what would there be maybe 500 games started a week and less than half of those actually finished?

I did really enjoy playing multiplayer alpha centauri except that it sucked too. If one of the people I was playing with wasn't disconnecting then another was. If one person only had 3 hours to play is there a point? etc

Eliezar

 

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by CyberChrist
While you might argue that some of these features presented at E3 have later been altered and that the MP part might also have been altered, then we have always been officially updated with these other changes - not so with the MP support (until 1 month before release).


Here is another link to the Ask the Team section on the official Civ3 site Play Nice with others - it is on the bottom of the page.

Please note that the question and answer is PRE-RELEASE and that the answer says nothing about MP support not being part of the first relesase, even though the question leaves little doubt that is what the customer is clearly interested in.

Just in case anyone wonders why we have adopted an unofficial policy of not talking about a potential feature unless we are 100% sure it will be implemented, here's a fantastic example of why.


Dan

 

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Caligula
SMAC was also faster and less buggy.

It's amazing how time affects the memory, isn't it? I can remember just starting at Firaxis and enduring endless waves of personal attacks on forums and via email because SMAC was "the buggiest game ever written", etc.

Subjectivity aside, from what I have been told based on our bug reports and databases, Civ III is infinitely more stable than SMAC ever was.

Dan

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


It's amazing how time affects the memory, isn't it? I can remember just starting at Firaxis and enduring endless waves of personal attacks on forums and via email because SMAC was "the buggiest game ever written", etc.

Subjectivity aside, from what I have been told based on our bug reports and databases, Civ III is infinitely more stable than SMAC ever was.

Dan

Thanks Dan. Great game.

Only I can't stop playing . . . . . . . . . must sleep . . . . . . . can't stop playing . . . . . . must sleep . . . am i . . hallucinations?! . . . sleep right after I finish J.S. Bach . . . oh no, they started a war, we'll show them . . . what job? . . . . must sleep . . . . was there a warning label on the box . . . look later . . . right after I take the enemy capital . . . . you know, Joan baby, you're lookin' pretty good to me . . . don't get mad . . . Catherine means nothing to me, just someone to trade with . . . must sleep . .

 

[Charles]

Originally posted by XPav

Hint #1: Game designers don't need ideas. They've got enough.

Civ3 has 7 programmers credited, and a whole pile of artists & other folks.


Pure and utter speculation.

CommonSense#1: If they had all the ideas they needed than why did Firaxis make a global "request" for suggestions and ideas for the new coming Civilization III in 97' ? And obviously they DO need ideas because I can think of a million ways to improve the game! And if your theory is that the game *IS* how it was meant to be, then I personally find it very rude and somewhat ignorant of consumer demand that they would leave out all those much-wanted features. Either way they look bad.

And if they have 7 programmers, and plenty of artists than this (in my opinion) makes them look even worse! Why was the finished product so full of bugs? Why was the finished product missing so many of the requests that were being fed to them for the past 5 years? Maybe they couldn't code it? Nah thats not it, nothing is impossible to code, only complicated. Are they lazy? No thats not it either, they're reputable. Okay, so what is it than? Why are so many people ticked off? Hmmm... let me see here, I know! They meant for Civ3 to lack features and carry bugs. Which would put them in automatic blame for any complaints regarding those issues (again in opinion).

Basically either way you look at this pav, they'll look bad no matter what happens. I think the "highlights" of the complaint is that Civ3 lacks so many ideas and features. Which I agree with because features or not , they should have at least coded them as "customizable" so it please a larger crowd. All of this could have been avoided if they did it the "complicated" way. Sounds to me like the took the easy way out.

Charles.

 

[Charles]

Originally posted by Eliezar
One thing that is 100 percent true is that the vast majority of people will complain about anything if you give them the chance. Sure there are things I would change about Civ III, but complaining about its performance on huge maps or that the box you bought didn't come with multiplayer even when the box doesn't say it comes with multiplayer is just whining to whine.
Eliezar

On the other hand there are some element of people (like myself for example) that actually do have realistic issues and complaints for good reasons. That could be anything like "missing features" or "too many bugs" or "game is too slow on a big map" whatever the reason(s) being.. it is my right as a consumer to bring those issues up and address them. The only "whiner" is the one who complains about someone complaining. I've never heard of a "game-lawyer" until I started reading the crap in the Civ-Site-Forums. I've never seen so many people get rediculously defensive because they can't stand to see a company or a game-product bashed. Obviously these people need to get out more and pay less attention to text on their PC. A life might substitute for this obsession. Try it sometime.

Charles.

 

[CyberChrist]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
Just in case anyone wonders why we have adopted an unofficial policy of not talking about a potential feature unless we are 100% sure it will be implemented, here's a fantastic example of why.

I am not sure how to take this reply, but I am happy to see that you guys are reading up on what we rant and rave about - as exagerated some of the posts get (my own posts as well I guess)

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
Subjectivity aside, from what I have been told based on our bug reports and databases, Civ III is infinitely more stable than SMAC ever was.

Civ3 is very stable indeed. I never had Civ3 crash even once, even though I have had several applications and browser windows open at the same time.
Which is rather lucky as there is a thinking pause of 15 mins between turns in my current 16 civ game on Marlas excellent world map.
The number of applications/browser windows open have no apparent effect on the time between turns - at least not that I have noticed.
Btw then the same game takes 5 mins to load, it race to 37% and halts for 1 min and then race 65% where hold for another 4 mins before I can start making my moves.
I understand now why you have totally discarded the otherwise brilliant implementation of 4 linked maps from ToT (although I wish you hadn't, they made it possible to make some totally awesome scenarios).
If you would like one of my savegames from that game so you can have a look yourself, then I will be more than happy to e-mail it to you.

Well, my 15 mins are up

 

[Charles]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
Just in case anyone wonders why we have adopted an unofficial policy of not talking about a potential feature unless we are 100% sure it will be implemented, here's a fantastic example of why.

Dan

I can understand why you nor any other member of Firaxis wouldn't want to face hate-mail. I personally wouldn't. But what are you guys working on? Multi-player, New Editor, More Civs what? You don't have to tell us what is being added, just tell us what is being "attempted". Thank you.

Charles.

 

[OneInTen]

The games you mention only had Local Network MP support (no TCP/IP support and Kali came later) Civ2MPG had MP support for Internet(TCP/IP).

Kali was around in 1996, and Quake had TCP/IP support from the day of it's release. Doom 95 was also released in 1996, which was a windows native version of Doom that had TCP/IP support.

So check your facts instead of posting blatant lies and having the nerve to call others a troll.

 

[CyberChrist]

Originally posted by OneInTen
Kali was around in 1996, and Quake had TCP/IP support from the day of it's release. Doom 95 was also released in 1996, which was a windows native version of Doom that had TCP/IP support.

You are right, my bad entirely
That's what happen when one replies too hastily not thinking things through, I saw the name Doom and thought "1993 = no Kali and no TCP/IP support = no internet play" and then went on to staple that to Quake as well.

Originally posted by OneInTen
So check your facts instead of posting blatant lies and having the nerve to call others a troll.

Blatant lies are when you deliberately make up stuff contrary to the truth, this was a case of haste makes waste on my part, an oversight, a slip up, a mistake, a .... oh you get it already.

It seems to me that you often create your own altered version inside your head of what people have actually written, and then go from there. I don't believe I actually called you a troll, but I must admit that if I see a post that has no apparent meaning other than to aggrevate and inflame other people, then I do feel tempted to start looking for a big nose, warts and a tail.

 

[croxis]

Let me thing this out.. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just a thought.

Civ II started at version 1.0, right? And how many patches was it until it reached the latest origonal version of 2.42? (the add on packs extended it to a higher version)

 

[SteveLS]

Cyberchrist sed:

" Heh heh, there are the promises in black and white and then there are promises hidden betweeen the lines. "

Uh, sure. And when you go out shopping for a car, and the salesman does not specifically state that the vehicle is absent a trunk full o' cash, does that mean the he promised you a trunk full o' cash 'between the lines'?

In all the different hardware/software purchases I have made over the years not ONE of them have ever been perfect, nor included each and every demaned feature. Forums all over the internet are littered with examples from disapointed consumers, including this one. The sometimes juvenile, and vitriolic displays presented here by some posters is probably why we don't see more valid concerns addressed by Firaxis. Precisely because those concerns are either presented in the famous "I hate you, and will never purchase anything from you again" line of reasoning, or the concerns are maybe not so valid after all.

Many of the complaints, I suspect, are related not to the game, but to the customers hardware/software setup. Many of the features that are missing are missing for a reason. Eventually, they will appear. Bugs will be fixed, and all will be made right. If Firaxis chooses to sell, rather than give away MP support, that is their right. (And yes, if reasonably priced, I will buy it....assuming it offers other features as well....thus exercising my rights as a consumer)

 

[Desert Fox]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS


It's amazing how time affects the memory, isn't it? I can remember just starting at Firaxis and enduring endless waves of personal attacks on forums and via email because SMAC was "the buggiest game ever written", etc.

Subjectivity aside, from what I have been told based on our bug reports and databases, Civ III is infinitely more stable than SMAC ever was.

Dan

You are forgetting that you guys defended SMAC and did not hide and make comments about us having high expectations instead. What do you say about the fact you seem to not want to admit there are serious problems with civ 3. We mention on how far away this is from the greatest game ever, civ 2.

Desert Fox