How a large influx of immigrants boost the economy

[Borachio]

I'm not saying they will necessarily become atheists, but it wouldn't surprise me. How do you think we come to have so many atheists this far? Didn't they have religious parents, or grandparents?

Actually, for atheist read secular. It might be misleading to say atheist since that implies people who devote even minimal time to the issue.

And religious people seem capable of being so alarmingly fecund, I don't think the human race is in any danger of extinction any time soon.

Let's hope most of their offspring do turn secular.

 

[Domen]

How do you think we come to have so many atheists this far? Didn't they have religious parents, or grandparents?

I don't know but it is not like everyone in the past was orthodoxly religious, or a religious fanatic. Even when 99% of people were religious, the proportion of orthodoxly (genuinely so) religious people was perhaps not that much higher than today. I liked the 2010 TV series "The Pillars of the Earth", among other things for its accurate (IMHO) depiction of religiosity in Medieval Europe - it was largely superficial, not genuine. Not so many fanatics.

By the way - as for different fertility rates between various groups. There is a model / theory that assumes that 50% of English males descent paternally from Anglo-Saxon immigrants, but that when Anglo-Saxons migrated to Britain, it was a moderate influx and they initially made up only 10% of the total population. This model assumes that they were growing at a rate 1.2 higher than that of Romano Britons - at first glance it seems not a big deal. That said, a rate of population growth just 1.2 higher is enough to turn 10% into 50% during just a dozen or so generations (or roughly 250 - 350 years).

Apply this to any other two groups. If one group is growing at only a bit higher rate - say 1.2 - then they can still increase their share from one-digit or two-digit percent to majority in several generations. Same applies to orthodox religiosity. They might win not by conversions but by wombs.

In Israel this is already taking place - Orthodox Jews breed faster and produce extra electorate for various radical anti-Arab parties.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

What exactly do you mean? Their social welfare programs?

A generous paid-leave-system for parents and good public childcare are the foundation of such a policy, as I understand. And as I recall Sweden also heavily incentives both parents to take leave and I think that may actually be a key factor. If men and women take paid leave it makes less sense to discriminate against women for doing so.

 

[Tahuti]

Fine. Secular families don't have as many children as religious ones. So future generations will be composed largely of atheists with religious parents. It seems a familiar pattern to me.

I'm not so sure about that. The babyboom generation was in part the product of post-war prosperity, which convinced parents indifferent to the idea of having children to think otherwise. I'm not buying the idea that people in general became more secularised. Rather, the advantages of nominally adhering to a faith became significantly less pronounced, though it is hardly telling of a greater degree of secularism.

The educated classes were arguably more religious in the pre-modern era than commoners. In fact, those in religious occupations arguably formed the educated classes. So children of religious parents will likely become religious as well, unless the authority of the family weakens within the context of devoutly religious groups.

 

[classical_hero]

I think that the modern state of Israel shows how a large influx of immigrants can boost the economy.

It also shows the problem with massive influx of illegal immigrants. Most of the Arabs come to the region from different areas around it.

 

[EnglishEdward]

I hazard a guess that he meant to say 'Europe'.

You guessed right.

I think I was falling asleep over the keyboard.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

I cannot speak for Sweden.

I can only speak for England and in particular London where I was born.


This sense of wealth is only for those who already own houses; those who do not own freehold property face the double whammy of:

(a) not being able to get on the housing ladder because of house price inflation; and

(b) having to compete with immigrants for rented housing which itself becomes more expensive because of excessive demand.


If you do not have a rich daddy or granny, then many young Londoners may best solve this by emigrating to Australia, Canada,
USA etc as soon as they have acquired an eligible trade such as nursing, teaching etc.

I resolved this for myself by moving to a lower cost part of England and buying my first house at the age of 37. my father
bought at age 36. I will never be able to buy a house in the area I was born or brought up.

The other problem is that the wealthy either bypass taxes or lobby to abolish inheritance/mansion tax so that the state
does not get much extra tax income.

I am not against immigration, my wife was a Filipino, but in my experience there are two lines; the anti-immigration
line which won't admit there are any benefits to immigration and the pro-immigration line which won't admit that
there are any downsides; both sides typically being intellectually dishonest in the facts they selectively present.

I think you're the only one that's attempted to answer the actual questions. The rest are digging into their usual positions.

The a) b) whammies aren't exactly the same here. I think the rental market is more regulated. It can be quite expensive, especially if you rent second hand, but otherwise, it's more about having to queue for several years to get a first hand contract in a nice neighbourhood/nice apartment.

The other thing is the ridiculously low interest rates. Even a huge loan won't cost much in interest. You don't need that much security to be able to loan for an apartment and it has been a very good investment over the last decades.
The security net is pretty strong too, so how can anyone fail?

 

[Domen]

At least 700 million people worldwide - a minimum of 10% of entire population - would like to permanently emigrate from their countries:

Almost 4 out of 10 of all Sub-Saharan Africans would like to emigrate from Sub-Saharan Africa somewhere else:

"If everyone in the world could land in his country of choice tomorrow, Singapore's population would rise by 219%. Zimbabwe's would fall by 47%."

The top 20 destinations, according to this measure:

Sources:

"The World’s Potential Migrants
Who They Are, Where They Want to Go, and Why It Matters":

http://www.imi.ox.ac.uk/pdfs/the-worlds-potential-migrants

"700 Million Worldwide Desire to Migrate Permanently
U.S. tops desired destination countries":

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124028/700-million-worldwide-desire-migrate-permanently.aspx

An estimated 166 million people want to move the USA:

But 45 million want to move to Canada (which currently has only 35 million inhabitants):

Nearly one-quarter (24%) of these respondents, which translates to more than 165 million adults worldwide, name the United States as their desired future residence. With an additional estimated 45 million saying they would like to move to Canada, Northern America is one of the two most desired regions.

The rest of the top desired destination countries (those where an estimated 25 million or more adults would like to go) are predominantly European. Forty-five million adults who would like to move name the United Kingdom or France as their desired destination, while 35 million would like to go to Spain and 25 million would like to relocate to Germany. Thirty million name Saudi Arabia and 25 million name Australia.

Roughly 210 million adults around the world would like to move to a country in the European Union, which is similar to the estimated number who would like to move to Northern America. However, about half of the estimated 80 million adults who live in the EU and would like to move permanently to another country would like to move to another country within the EU -- the highest desired intra-regional migration rate in the world.

=======================================

Almost 4 out of 10 of all Sub-Saharan Africans would like to emigrate from Sub-Saharan Africa somewhere else

"Africans in Calais: Protesting for the right to be taken in by their old colonial rulers":