How can we destroy climate change sceptics?

[Cutlass]

Let time tell who is right and wrong?


Didnt all the great minds believe the world was entering the next ice age 30 years ago?

No. That's been debunked many times. A handful speculated that it might happen in popular culture. Nothing by scientists.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

If they could be destroyed by the means of science/reason it had been done already.
So I vote for the Inquisition option.

 

[Bei1052]

I'm skeptical of AGW, not of global warming as a whole.

...When can I expect the inquisitioner?

 

[Cutlass]

I'm skeptical of AGW, not of global warming as a whole.

...When can I expect the inquisitioner?

 

[Tekee]

I like this steyn quote. :

NIWA’s David Wratt has told Investigate magazine this afternoon his organization denies faking temperature data and he claims NIWA has a good explanation for adjusting the temperature data upward. Wratt says NIWA is drafting a media response for release later this afternoon which will explain why they altered the raw data.

At least they only "altered" the data, unlike the CRU, which managed to lose it.

Upon examination of said "raw data", it seems that the country's temperature increased 0.06° over a century - ie, nada. But by the time Dr James Salinger (a big cheese at NIWA, the CRU and the IPCC), had "adjusted" the data New Zealand was showing an increase of 0.92° - ie, some 15 times greater than the raw data showed. Why?

Well he says that he will provide an explanation and denies altering data.
So for the meantime, we can be sure that the media, government, and liberals will continue to say "nothing to see here".

Too bad we got a school presentation on Global Warming from a world renowned speaker who was smug that he was due to speak in France next week.
He spoke to us days before the scandal. Otherwise I would've asked a question during "question period"

Funny also that in times of stress, when leftists dare think with common sense and not political sense, they will attempt to violently put down any dissent

 

[Karalysia]

FEMA re-education camps run by commissars trained by Organizing For America will annihilate these reactionary-capitalist-bourgeois-traitors.

 

[Glassfan]

With a background of History and Archeaology, I know that climate change is real and the norm. The temperature has always gone up or down - it's always gotten wetter or drier. The evidence is certainly persuasive that the temperature has been increasing in recent decades, particularly in terms of glacial recession. The problem is with "global warming", a political argument that the current increases are due to man's activities.

Many global warming believers feel that if they can prove the temperature is rising, they've won the argument. But climate change is the norm, not the exception - why is the current warming episode somehow different than all the others?

This question is crucial because our response is different based on which is true. If it's "global warming" - caused by man - then it's like a big forest fire (here in the States, often deliberately or accidently caused by people); we believe that if we just expend the resources and effort, we can put it out. But if it's "natural" climate change, usually caused by variations in solar or geological activity, then it's more like a hurricane - natural and unstoppable. What do you do in a hurricane? Get to high ground and endure until it's over. If we guess wrong, we will waste valuable time and resources and make things worse.

We don't need hackers to know that some of the global warming "proof" is exagerated. The "unprecidented" melting of the ice at then north pole a couple of years ago has actually been public knowledge since the 1950's when American and Russian nuclear submarines occasionally reported open ocean there.

Furthermore, the idea that the whole world will get together and put aside their differences and narrow sectarian interests to cooperate on fighting "global warming" is absurd. A lesson of history; virtually every nation will sign a treaty, virtually no nation will honor it. Indeed, some have-not nations will welcome the upset applecart.

It's not true that "all scientists believe in global warming". Many do not - you can find their objections on the internet. And many educated people have doubts about the less-than compelling evidence, as well as the insulting arrogance of the believers.

There is plenty of room for a healthy scepticism here.

 

[Integral]

@Tekee: I think much of that boils down to what the definition of 'alter' is.

Are we 'altering' data by changing actual values (bad)? By the process of imputation (an inexact art in the best of cases)? By the modeling process (possibly legitimate)?

 

[Bast]

It's not true that "all scientists believe in global warming". Many do not - you can find their objections on the internet.

Such as?

With a background of History and Archeaology, I know that climate change is real and the norm. The temperature has always gone up or down - it's always gotten wetter or drier. The evidence is certainly persuasive that the temperature has been increasing in recent decades, particularly in terms of glacial recession.

Normal climate change doesn't happen over decades.

the insulting arrogance of the believers.

What has that got to do with anything?

 

[Princeps]

I like this steyn quote. :


Well he says that he will provide an explanation and denies altering data.
So for the meantime, we can be sure that the media, government, and liberals will continue to say "nothing to see here".

Too bad we got a school presentation on Global Warming from a world renowned speaker who was smug that he was due to speak in France next week.
He spoke to us days before the scandal. Otherwise I would've asked a question during "question period"

Funny also that in times of stress, when leftists dare think with common sense and not political sense, they will attempt to violently put down any dissent

http://www.niwa.co.nz/news-and-publications/news/all/niwa-confirms-temperature-rise

What's interesting is that the whole denier blogosphere has run batshit crazy on the basis of these accusations and the illegal email hacking. Yet they can produce nothing. They are indeed the fradulent conspiracy theorists we always thought they were.

 

[Lillefix]

Such as?

Because of a course I'm doing at the university we visited scientists and so on. And one of the people we talked to(we were two or three people) was a PHD student researching how to store carbon dioxide in some sort of mineral, I think it was Magnesium or Iron Oxcide or something. And at the end of the discussion he muttered something like "If global warming is manmade" with a sarcastic voice. And the professor beside him nodded and was obviously sceptical as well.

So there you have two scientists.

 

[Princeps]

So there you have two scientists.

Were they involved in the study of the climate?

 

[Lillefix]

Were they involved in the study of the climate?

Storing of carbondioxide to prevent global warming, so not directly, but I would assume they knew more about it than the layman or most politicians.

 

[Cutlass]

Storing of carbondioxide to prevent global warming, so not directly, but I would assume they knew more about it than the layman or most politicians.

Possibly, but not certainly. A lot of science is awfully specialized. Many people in engineering or chemistry may never even read the literature.

 

[Patroklos]

Second, people like you were singing a different tune years ago and will be yet different again in a few years time. Deny while you can.

Speaking of people singing a differnet tune, people like you were predicting we would be in a civilization ending ice age right now just thirty years ago. You are invested in a disaster outcome becaust that lets you bully people in all sorts of spheres.

As to the OP, having a position that sourced in actual data may help you, at the moment AGW is little more than a faith based religion.

 

[Cutlass]

Speaking of people singing a differnet tune, people like you were predicting we would be in a civilization ending ice age right now just thirty years ago. You are invested in a disaster outcome becaust that lets you bully people in all sorts of spheres.

As to the OP, having a position that sourced in actual data may help you, at the moment AGW is little more than a faith based religion.

Repeating that myth lots f times doesn't make it true.

No. That's been debunked many times. A handful speculated that it might happen in popular culture. Nothing by scientists.

No, they didn't. Why is this myth being repeated?

 

[Murky]

The cult of denial will likely stay around until they start feeling the pain of the consequences of AGW themselves.

You can't fix stupid.

 

[Graceheart the Leopard]

Fire always works...

Okay, I'll be serious: I think we should wait until the evidence for Climate Change is undeniable, then most of them will change their minds when every area of North America under 200 metres will have to be protected with Dikes.

 

[Patroklos]

Repeating that myth lots f times doesn't make it true.

And you calling it a myth does not make it so.

You can deny it all you want but everyone knows that the self proclaimed saviors of the world spouted that line loud and clear for years. I am not talking about scientists, I am talking about the self deluded zealots like Bast who worship at the alter of "science." The current belief in AGW is no more valid than the belief in the coming ice age of doom back then, a self serving faith based worship of a helpful tool.

 

[Tekee]

What's interesting is that the whole denier blogosphere has run batshit crazy on the basis of these accusations and the illegal email hacking. Yet they can produce nothing. They are indeed the fradulent conspiracy theorists we always thought they were.

If it was a right-wing organization that was hacked it would not have been illegal to you?
But since it was your fellows with their pants down that is illegal.

Anyways it is not our duty to produce anything.

Frankly I am a big environmentalist for pollution. But talks about Chernobyl radiation, industrial dumping and poisoning of land is much more important.
But governments don't care about this because they have no profit to gain from it.
Global Climate Change is being jumped on by governments because they can tax everything we do and all it eco taxes.
And this forum has shown how popular taxes are when they are called "Green taxes".

I am not talking about scientists, I am talking about the self deluded zealots like Bast who worship at the alter of "science." The current belief in AGW is no more valid than the belief in the coming ice age of doom back then, a self serving faith based worship of a helpful tool.

And Atheists will tell you themselves are the only reasonable people.