How do you counter archers on cities?
- Thread starter Flower
- Start date
like said, catapults so the city goes down to 0% defence, then sac a couple catapults to wound all their units in the city. Also, if your facing a lot of archers you may pursue the 25% vs. archer unit promotion. To my knowledge there aren't any units that get an inherent bonus to archers, unless you start into some of the unique units.
If you don't have catapults yet, you can use naval units to bombard the defenses, if the city's on the coast.
After bombarding the defenses, look at the odds. You may not need to suicide catapults if you have the right attackers (macemen, well promoted swordsmen, knights), but you're in trouble if they're on a hill or have a lot of city defender promotions.
A city raider promotion usually makes sense over a "cover" (anti-archer) promotion, since CR works against anything. Of course, many units can't get CR promotions.
If you think archers are bad, wait'll you see the longbows.
After bombarding the defenses, look at the odds. You may not need to suicide catapults if you have the right attackers (macemen, well promoted swordsmen, knights), but you're in trouble if they're on a hill or have a lot of city defender promotions.
A city raider promotion usually makes sense over a "cover" (anti-archer) promotion, since CR works against anything. Of course, many units can't get CR promotions.
If you think archers are bad, wait'll you see the longbows.
You can't have frigates without construction, so no cats = nothing that can bombard.
Also, maces or knights vs archers isn't really fair - if that's the case then you don't even need the cats. Swords and axes (and early UUs) are the usual city attack troops in the archer-era. Most of the time simply axes twice the archer-count, plus half as many extra if they're on a hill or highly cultured (capitol and holy city, maybe early-wonder city), another half if cultured on a hill.
Overall, high cultural defenses and reasonable defense force means wait for the cats. It's a lot of hammers splattered on the walls if you go the suicide axe route.
Also, maces or knights vs archers isn't really fair - if that's the case then you don't even need the cats. Swords and axes (and early UUs) are the usual city attack troops in the archer-era. Most of the time simply axes twice the archer-count, plus half as many extra if they're on a hill or highly cultured (capitol and holy city, maybe early-wonder city), another half if cultured on a hill.
Overall, high cultural defenses and reasonable defense force means wait for the cats. It's a lot of hammers splattered on the walls if you go the suicide axe route.
Romans -> Iron -> Praetorians (strength 8) with city raider promotions -> pwnage against archers
If you don't have a special civilization like the Romans, you'll have to wait until construction (catapults) to beat well-garrisoned archers efficiently (those on capital cities on hills, for example). Axemen and swordsmen may suffice in some cases. By the time you have construction, though, enemy civs may [soon] have longbows, which are over twice as strong as archers!
If you don't have a special civilization like the Romans, you'll have to wait until construction (catapults) to beat well-garrisoned archers efficiently (those on capital cities on hills, for example). Axemen and swordsmen may suffice in some cases. By the time you have construction, though, enemy civs may [soon] have longbows, which are over twice as strong as archers!
Stolen Rutters
Deity
CRIII swordsman (city raider III) work best if you don't have catapults. City raider III reduces 75% of the defensive bonuses for any unit (the bonuses for CRI, CRII, and CRIII stack up).
A fully fortified Archer (+25% fortification, +50% city defender) is completely reduced to only a cultural bonus status by CRIII.
Add that to the swordsman getting an extra 10% reduction to eat into some of the cultural bonus and you are suddenly looking at a strength 6 unit attacking a more or less a strength 3 unit with first strike, which still favors the swordsman.
A fully fortified Archer (+25% fortification, +50% city defender) is completely reduced to only a cultural bonus status by CRIII.
Add that to the swordsman getting an extra 10% reduction to eat into some of the cultural bonus and you are suddenly looking at a strength 6 unit attacking a more or less a strength 3 unit with first strike, which still favors the swordsman.
Can't galleys bombard and Caravelles bombard?
Michelangelo
Prince
You're probably looking for a unit in the same stage of the game. In my experience you can best use swordman, but if they're not available you could also use a chariot or horse archer. They're stronger than a warrior and have a retreat chance, so they won't be killed as much as axemen or swordsmen.
Especially the horse archer is suitable as it has a immunity to first strikes with which the archer is "born"
Especially the horse archer is suitable as it has a immunity to first strikes with which the archer is "born"
futurehermit
Deity
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prior to construction and iron working (assuming you have copper nearby):
axes with city raider promotions. avoid cities with high cultural defense (creative civs are bad for this), cities built on hills (archers get a bonus on hills), and protective civs (their archers get free defensive promotions).
post-ironworking:
add in swords with city raider promotions. they're better than axes since they have more strength and get a bonus vs. cities.
post-construction:
this is ideal. use catapults first to bombard cultural defense (the target symbol). then suicide a couple (give them barrage promotion) to soften up the defenders. then use your city raider promotions (catapults themselves excel at this although swords are great) to mop up the city.
mass catapults + some defenders is the way to go imo.
axes with city raider promotions. avoid cities with high cultural defense (creative civs are bad for this), cities built on hills (archers get a bonus on hills), and protective civs (their archers get free defensive promotions).
post-ironworking:
add in swords with city raider promotions. they're better than axes since they have more strength and get a bonus vs. cities.
post-construction:
this is ideal. use catapults first to bombard cultural defense (the target symbol). then suicide a couple (give them barrage promotion) to soften up the defenders. then use your city raider promotions (catapults themselves excel at this although swords are great) to mop up the city.
mass catapults + some defenders is the way to go imo.
selfexiled
Chieftain
Michelangelo is right, an overlooked unit is the Horse Archer. I can't remember off the top of my head if they can get Drill (first strike) promotions, if they can then it's worth getting those as well or flanking if not. If you don't have access to iron or catapults yet your best bets are Horse Archers and axemen with city raider upgrades.
If you do have cats then may I suggest the following promotions and numbers (these maybe scaled up or down on the situation), City Raider specialists (5 units), Barrage specialists (2 units) and Drill specialists (3 units, optional I use drill when I already have heavily promoted City Raider axemen or swordsmen).
First Bombard, then Barrage units will be suicided to damage the city defender stack, followed by the 2nd wave of Drill units to soften up the stack even more (and actually survive) and on with City Raiders if I do not have any axemen or swordsmen. Of Course if you have the City Raider axemen or swordsmen then you just want the Barrage and Drill cats
If you do have cats then may I suggest the following promotions and numbers (these maybe scaled up or down on the situation), City Raider specialists (5 units), Barrage specialists (2 units) and Drill specialists (3 units, optional I use drill when I already have heavily promoted City Raider axemen or swordsmen).
First Bombard, then Barrage units will be suicided to damage the city defender stack, followed by the 2nd wave of Drill units to soften up the stack even more (and actually survive) and on with City Raiders if I do not have any axemen or swordsmen. Of Course if you have the City Raider axemen or swordsmen then you just want the Barrage and Drill cats
futurehermit
Deity
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in warlords harchers get a negative modifier for attacking cities making them inefficient imo for attacking fortified archers in cities, especially if the city is on a hill.
not to mention that hbriding is not exactly a tech you want to be beelining for 98% of the time.
not to mention that hbriding is not exactly a tech you want to be beelining for 98% of the time.
You don't. Sure... if you have 7+ catapults vs 3 archers, you should be able to beat them down... but, down to WHAT?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/107807/Colbey_BC-0775.CivWarlordsSave
This is my current game. I am attacking the Korean city. There is ONE archer at 50% HP, 1-2 first strikes, and I have an 80.4% chance to succeed after I beat the defenders down with the catapults.
Go ahead... try it...
I spent an hour.
The maceman loses EVERY TIME.
Leifmk
Deity
Let me guess, you hadn't checked the "new random seed on reload" option?
selfexiled
Chieftain
Maybe he's playing with Hall of Fame rule set?
GoodGame
Red, White, & Blue, baby!
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2004
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- 13,725
Catapults/Horse Archers and city attack promotions. Also attack early to avoid cultural defense bonuses.
Stolen Rutters
Deity
Yep, sounds like a random number seed issue again.
search in google or a wiki for "random number generator" for details on how computers generate numbers for random events. It's not truly random, and this game saves the seed that the computer uses so the sequence of random values is not lost but is actually recorded.
Wait until the next turn after a slew of random numbers have already been used between turns (thus repositioning the seed). Your attack gets delayed a turn but you are now getting an exactly different result (you might still lose but at least it is a 100% chance that it is a different number).
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