How do you kill an immortal SoD?!

[Cornhog]

I don't even see how it's possible. I can out tech the AI and I can out strategize the AI, but I can't outproduce the AI when it comes to units. I was in a forest with about 15-20 riflemen, 10 macemen and a level three medic. He's attacking with macemen, trebuchets and pikemen(!). I'm killing him six units to one, but I still lose. Then he advances and takes two cities. Then the dogpile begins. It doesn't matter how many of SoDs I kill, the AI has so many unit production bonuses that it can rebuild that stack before my units even heal. It's just one SoD after another...

I don't know how to compete against that. I know the computer has always cheated, but it's like they finally reached the tipping point. I'm frustrated. It's not even fun.

 

[Sisiutil]

For starters, use siege weapons. By the point in the game that you describe, Catapults are cheap, or Cannon are strong. Throw a bunch of them at the stack. Follow that up with mounted units with Flanking promotions, then whatever else you got. If you have Physics, Airships can help out as well, and with impunity for many, many turns.

Ahead of the war, try to find out where the enemy stack is holed up. Attack that city first--amphibiously if you have to. You'll lose more units, but will have the element of surprise on your side. I find the AI rarely recovers from losing its stack right off the bat.

And finally, try building and attacking with more than one SoD yourself. The AI, I've discovered, finds this very hard to handle. Honestly, I think many human players would too! Just take a few more turns and build up a bigger military. Try the queue-building trick: build a unit to within a turn of completion, then insert a different unit ahead of it in the queue. Switch to Vassalage & Theocracy for the additional XPs and pump those units out; do it during a Golden Age if you're not Spiritual to avoid anarchy and take advantage of the production bonus to produce even more units.

 

[JBossch]

Like Sis said, definitely use siege. Another good trick is to wait a turn after you declare so that the AI sends its SoD into your borders (it helps to know where they enemy SoD is, of course). Then counterattack with your siege and offensive units to wipe it out before entering their borders. This has the added bonus of reducing war weariness.
Also, use your first GG to create a super medic to bring with your stack.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Couple ways:

- Declare early so they never get buildup (hard but doable on immortal and usually nets you enough cities to win should you succeed)

- Tech lead + good production (possibly heroic epic + upgrades even)

- Draft like 50 rifles

- settle at least 10 cities and just hammer your stack out (my favorite lately)

When fighting, if you know they have a stack, you have 3 basic options:

1. Bribe the AI to war elsewhere (or someone to declare on the target), then . Whoops, no SoD to be found .

2. Let it enter your territory first. Then, hit it with siege. In the era you describe, something like 12 cannons + enough cleanup force would probably crush most immortal stacks like nothing if they're still backwards, and even at parity possibly

3. Just be large enough in terms of production to go in and rip the AI's stack to shreds in the first city you capture (once you've gotten enough land, it's easily possible).

 

[Killroyan]

1 thing you definitely need against Stacks of DOOOOOM is besides siege a lot of horse units with flanking. The biggest problem with defending against a big stack of doom is his siege. Take away his siege and you will normally be fine. Flanking just obliterates his siege. Send in your siege first and then start attacking with your horse units.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Also since the AI underbuilds siege you can hold off large stacks in the classical/middle ages with archers/longbows respectively if you have a hill city. Hill archers with CG or guerrilla will beat even swords with similar promos. With longbows you want CG II or preferably III. In both cases you need a LOT of units, probably an archer for each attacker or so, but that's pretty easy since they're relatively cheap.

 

[JujuLautre]

kill an immortal stack? Like tanks, with spearmen obviously

Sorry, could not resist

 

[dirtyparrot]

LOL, I decided to just see how Immortal was like (I just made the jump to Emperor). I picked Asoka and happened to have Monte a few tiles away (I probably should have tried to see if I couldn't see any worker and then try to choke him as best I could). Anyway, the only thing I did well was that I managed to make someone else his worst enemy, but unfortunately there were only 3 of us on this continent and Monte was mopping the floor with Mansa and I knew it was only a matter of time before it would be my turn. Emperor to Immortal seems like a huge jump. I'm dominating in my 1st emperor game, but I have no chance on Immortal. I don't know how you all do it.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

LOL, I decided to just see how Immortal was like (I just made the jump to Emperor). I picked Asoka and happened to have Monte a few tiles away (I probably should have tried to see if I couldn't see any worker and then try to choke him as best I could). Anyway, the only thing I did well was that I managed to make someone else his worst enemy, but unfortunately there were only 3 of us on this continent and Monte was mopping the floor with Mansa and I knew it was only a matter of time before it would be my turn. Emperor to Immortal seems like a huge jump. I'm dominating in my 1st emperor game, but I have no chance on Immortal. I don't know how you all do it.

Deity is even bigger , although I have a little ways to go yet before saying I've "mastered" immortal.

 

[Sleepless]

Another one for using siege against the stacks. Remember if you don't have cannons go for cats before trebs. The AI will take some time to reduce your city defences and by that time you should have enough defenders/siege to make a big dent in his SOD. I just accept the pillaging as I find its better to retreat to a city if you don't have enough units to take out his SOD in the field.

 

[Cornhog]

Ah! Insert relieved sigh here. I won my third immortal game. Easiest way to defeat SoD? Don't fight any! Started as the Dutch on a small island with the French. So I killed them and never fought another war. Late space victory for a crappy score, but a victory nonetheless! On normal even! Yay!

About the siege suggestions, that never seems to work because it's not that I can't kill their stack, it's that the AI just builds another one so insanely quick.

 

[Learningciv]

For an enemy SOD don't try and defend a forest tile. Bait them into moving close enough then YOU attack THEM. As others said smash it with siege them mop up.

 

[Soirana]

Best way to defeat? Set world on fire with bribes. While your oponents stacks anihilate each other you drag your big stabbing knife...

 

[JammerUno]

The best defense is a good offense. Locate the stack, analyse the stack, attack the stack. Sitting there waiting for it is only an option if you're caught unprepared.

 

[Gooblah]

This is really a question for all levels: WHat's the use in attacking an enemy stack with Siege in your territory?
If you attack with Siege, the enemy will gain promotions, sit down to heal, and then rape you anyways. And it lets them open up a second front against you by making their attacks roughly simultaneous, not staggered.

 

[JBossch]

This is really a question for all levels: WHat's the use in attacking an enemy stack with Siege in your territory?
If you attack with Siege, the enemy will gain promotions, sit down to heal, and then rape you anyways. And it lets them open up a second front against you by making their attacks roughly simultaneous, not staggered.

You follow the siege with offensive units and kill their SoD, not let it sit around to heal. It helps to do it in your own territory because it reduces war weariness.

 

[Gooblah]

You follow the siege with offensive units and kill their SoD, not let it sit around to heal. It helps to do it in your own territory because it reduces war weariness.

Ohh..gotcha..

 

[Crusher1]

I'm curious as to your stack composition vs their stack composition and the date. On Immortal it is usually somewhat easy to have 9-10 cannons supporting 15+ grenadiers or 20+ other random units like Elephants, Mace, Musket, whatever OR have 15+ Rifles with spies around 1000 AD, or shortly after.

That should be more than enough to grab 3-5 cities and strengthen your empire and give you enough land to propel yourself towards a winning victory condition.

 

[Rodwell]

You had 30 units, that is far too few in the rifleman era.

Tech slightly slower, build more units.

 

[Crusher1]

You had 30 units, that is far too few in the rifleman era.

Tech slightly slower, build more units.

Horrible advice.

On Immortal + the longer you wait the more overpowering they become. You need to grab as much land as early as possible. Early war is the best, however, after early wars or peaceful REXing your subsequent wars should occur with superior tech when the AI has nothing more than LBs.

A modest force of cannon + anything or Rifles with Spies does the job, as long as you do it early enough. If going the cannon route do not bombard their defenses because it takes too much time. Besides, 1-2 cannon directly attacking a city will easily reduce any out dated units the AI is using.