How do you see Genghis Khan?
- Thread starter TopGearFanatic
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Meh, we understand bits and pieces here and there. I've always found the events in England to be of interest.The West after the destruction of the Roman Empire would be much more interesting if we actually had a decent idea as to what was happening.
Getting a bit past the immediate post-Roman period, but I've always found the discussion over the Anglo-Saxon conquest (whether one actually took place being a major point of contention) and the struggle for power among the Heptarchy rather interesting.What events?
)Masada's actually right. As far as the history of the British Isles is concerned, there are literally no events for two centuries after the revolt against Constantinus "III". The debate about the Anglo-Saxons is semi-interesting, but severely constricted from a lack of actual evidence, a failure to effectively describe these 'Anglo-Saxons', and, um, did I mention the lack of actual evidence?
No, it's not. Yet there are no written sources from the place until Gildas, and Gildas is a nonhistorical polemic; The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, "Stephanus'" Life of Wilfrid, and Bede's Ecclesiastical History give us the first real post-Roman written historical sources.
There are, of course, other written documents. For instance, there is the legislation of Ine of Wessex, a "king" who controlled a rather embarrassingly small plot of land and who allegedly promulgated a code of laws that were apparently wishful thinking that he had no possible way of enforcing; they are theoretically a seventh-century document included in the law code of Alfred, although technically Alfred could have just been attributing his own laws to Ine to give them a bit of historical cachet. And there are a fair few epic poems, like Y Gododdin, about a cattle raid gone horribly wrong in what is now northern England and which frankly is best read by the casual observer as satire because at least you'll laugh a few times. But none of them give any indication as to events.
Material culture, of course, does not differentiate between "Saxon" and "Briton" and "Roman" and so on (and that assumes that one thinks that they are different things); even if it could, it could not be relied upon to give even a passable timeline for 'invasion'.
There are, of course, other written documents. For instance, there is the legislation of Ine of Wessex, a "king" who controlled a rather embarrassingly small plot of land and who allegedly promulgated a code of laws that were apparently wishful thinking that he had no possible way of enforcing; they are theoretically a seventh-century document included in the law code of Alfred, although technically Alfred could have just been attributing his own laws to Ine to give them a bit of historical cachet. And there are a fair few epic poems, like Y Gododdin, about a cattle raid gone horribly wrong in what is now northern England and which frankly is best read by the casual observer as satire because at least you'll laugh a few times. But none of them give any indication as to events.
Material culture, of course, does not differentiate between "Saxon" and "Briton" and "Roman" and so on (and that assumes that one thinks that they are different things); even if it could, it could not be relied upon to give even a passable timeline for 'invasion'.
We don't actually know whether the people living in Roman Britain retained the administrative system. It seems unlikely, though, considering the material-cultural evidence of the 'Great Simplification' - a massive economic regionalization. The Roman administrative system was designed to get cash and grain to the army; cash almost disappeared in Britain after 410, and a lot of the ability to harvest and transport grain did too.
There is archaeological evidence that Roman administrative buildings were occupied in a radically different way. At Wroxeter, the old Roman administrative buildings' walls partially collapsed, so apparently people build new mud and wood buildings on top of and inside them. What used to be the main road through the place was mostly blocked off by an assortment of smaller stalls - the popular theory being that the place was what passed for a bazaar in sub-Roman Britain. But this doesn't really speak to the idea that the same types of administrators were running things in the same types of ways, just in more straitened circumstances. It's somewhat more plausible that new power-groups had emerged (well, new administrative ones; the army probably saw a helluva lot more continuity) and picked up old symbols of Roman authority as their own. Either way, Mud-and-Wood Guys probably weren't spending a whole lot of time on written records.
There is archaeological evidence that Roman administrative buildings were occupied in a radically different way. At Wroxeter, the old Roman administrative buildings' walls partially collapsed, so apparently people build new mud and wood buildings on top of and inside them. What used to be the main road through the place was mostly blocked off by an assortment of smaller stalls - the popular theory being that the place was what passed for a bazaar in sub-Roman Britain. But this doesn't really speak to the idea that the same types of administrators were running things in the same types of ways, just in more straitened circumstances. It's somewhat more plausible that new power-groups had emerged (well, new administrative ones; the army probably saw a helluva lot more continuity) and picked up old symbols of Roman authority as their own. Either way, Mud-and-Wood Guys probably weren't spending a whole lot of time on written records.
I'd say that fifth, sixth, and early seventh century Britain was 'dark' less because of the facts of life - which didn't change much for anybody outside of the old administrative and trading classes, and to a lesser extent the army - and more because we just don't know what the hell was going on. Then Bede and "Stephanus" had their extended argument and suddenly it's like somebody turned on a light switch.
christos200
Never tell me the odds
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LightSpectra
me autem minui
I was going to suggest it's because you're fascinated by the recent Staffordshire Hoard discovery, but I figure Lord Baal is less of a "becomes an expert on a subject after it becomes cool" type person and more like a "the Fonz bangs his arm on the jukebox and discovers ancient Anglo-Saxon treasure" type person.
sophie
Break My Heart
But this is infinitely more interesting than some discussion about whether or not some Steppe Chieftain burned 1,000,000 books or 1,500,000 books.
Linkman226
#anarchy
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There's the "New Thread" button for that
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