Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
How in the name of Christ do you get from "traditional narratives surrounding the Golden Horde seem exaggerated" to "the Golden Horde did not exist"?
How do you see Genghis Khan?
- Thread starter TopGearFanatic
- Start date
LightSpectra
me autem minui
I'm pretty sure that post was intended to be satirical.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Oh. Then ignore me. 
christos200
Never tell me the odds
Lone Wolf please say that this is a joke.
Genghis khan was real and the mongols were real. Do you think the whole planet from 12 century AD until today are protecting a mongolian propaganda? You must be joking.
Genghis khan was real and the mongols were real. Do you think the whole planet from 12 century AD until today are protecting a mongolian propaganda? You must be joking.
Linkman226
#anarchy
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2007
- Messages
- 2,493
^^Someone needs to refurbish their sarcasm detection skills
Lone Wold- you're satire almost sounds like a serious argument from a creationist, complete with the whole "Our opponents disagree to a very slight extent between each other- therefore we must be right!" logic.
Lone Wold- you're satire almost sounds like a serious argument from a creationist, complete with the whole "Our opponents disagree to a very slight extent between each other- therefore we must be right!" logic.
christos200 said:
Don't conflate the Mongols as a group existing now with the supposed historical Mongols existing. The current Mongols are a group of nomadic horseman who live on the fringes of the civilised world. Why is it that if these people conquered the world, there's no evidence?!
Because the Romanovs helped the Europeans hide it during the Renaissance. They don't want to acknowledge the existence of the great Russo-Tatar Empire.
christos200
Never tell me the odds
They took over almost all of asia but then they became small kingdoms that fought each other until they were all destroyed. Also china took over mongolia. Also how in the h*ll arabs, byzantines, chinese and other historians from 12 century AD write about the mongols? Wow the mongols managed to make them help in their propaganda.
I don't think the Mongols would be the first group in human history to experience a collapse or change in fortune from conquerors to the conqured. We have the Aztecs in Mexico who are now an oppressed minority in a country where they created a great civilization. We have the Maya who are in a similar condition in Belize, as also are the Inca of Peru. In the case of North Africa we have the Berbers, who are an oppressed minority in Many North African countries, inspite of the fact that they were the original population before Arabic conquests, and also inspite of the fact they were responsible for great historic civilzations such as Moorish Spain or the Almoravid empire. We also have in the Sahel and Sahara of NorthWest africa the Tuareg or Tamasheq, who were the lords of their world subjugating a number of populations throughout North West Africa ;after African independence, these nomadic Tamasheq communities became minorities in every single country they had established themselves in. Even today all over North West Africa they are engaged in hopeless struggles to gain independent status. I think we have enough evidence to be sure that the Mongols of today who live on the fringes of the civilized world are the same as the ones of the past who conqured the world. And besides the mongols have always been Nomads even at the height of their conquests, and the Chinese and Persians and other civilized states they conquered back then in the 13th century also saw them as demonic barbarians.
Linkman226
#anarchy
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Are you guys THAT stupid that you can't recognize sarcasm when you see it?
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
Some people find it hard to detect on the internet, myself included (though this case I got it after a few seconds).
Still, Genghis Khan would probably not approve of sarcasm.
Graceheart the Leopard
Resident Amur leopard
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2007
- Messages
- 3,476
That's them in the paddocks in the foreground.Indeed.
And sarcasm isn't that hard to detect on the interwebs. Certainly not from a regular poster like Masada. Someone new on the boards, perhaps.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Not quite; those are the paddocks which the horse archers are currently shooting fire arrows at, preceding a charge.
christos200
Never tell me the odds
Racsoviale
Smoke me a kipper!
Looks cool and epic
Linkman226
#anarchy
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I thought it was a decent movie.
r16
not deity
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now that it has been established the most out of turn post of the thread was a joke by popular vote ı can offer my irrelevant observations on the subject . Can't offer any answers to the real or sarcastic points raised so far . Only remark ı can make that ı had read all the loot was buried with Cengiz and a river was re-routed over to hide the site . Didn't they find the grave yet ? ( Coincidence it is that just as ı started to write this the TV channel was reporting on why we should too make archeological digs in Mongolia )
neither will ı attach much importance to my own suggestion why history is not exactly the real story . If you interpret physics or any other hard science according to your own interests , you might come to regret it . No amount of revolutionary ardour , financial splendour or social networking grandeur will make five pieces of fruits out of addition of two apples to two oranges .
interpretation of history on the hand is very open to interpretation . Is that an oxymoron ; am supposed to be good at them . And no regrets are likely to arise from fancy re-colouration in this field . Even when fiction of yesteryears can affect future like hell .
history is not reliable even with accepted methods . Sources , citations are number one requirement in any claim in the field and how trustworthy they are ?
to grease the mighty mobilization of the British power to crush the Kaiser's scum well meaning guys in London wrote graphic details of the German atrocies in Belgium . ı understand there were serious warcrimes to crush the resistance immediately to pre-empt British intervention by making it too late and meaningless by the surrender of the Belgian state . But Germans did not make soap out of civilians or raped the nuns .
fast forward to 1947 and the Empire upon which sun never sat was bankrupt in many ways forced on the by the inescapeable conclusion that Germans were too tough a nut to crack without incurring cracks and abrasions wrecking the hammer . The jewel of the crown had to go and the British officers bred up with the comforting idea that they were of a nation that was the grandmaster of divide and rule , needed to hide some leverage somewhere to come back . As the maps were drawn Kashmir was spotted .
of course there was some fiction of democracy , for those eligible . Fiction because maps were final , no challenges were to be accepted . The Nizam of Hyderabad was a Muslim , richest guy in the world and probably the most miserly , who wanted independence and denied on the account of the large Hindu majority . Some guy wanted to join Pakistan and pulled a gun on the official from Delhi , Mountbatten had to take it personally. Still the vegatarian official had to accept the feasts where he was fed with meat and champagne nonstop and flown back to Delhi in the personal plane of the Maharaja who was very much into acrobatic shows . India paid puke for Jodhpur .
kashmir was the reverse with its large Moslem majority and in Pakistan . Don't ask how . The Hindu leader was not stopped . Pakistanis were agitated , despite the 300 in the partition agreements they had received only three trains of military equipment , one with a shipment of bricks and condoms . They felt for an indirect approach and sent up the ferocious Pathans . Who somehow stopped short of the airfield, their primary target , because they were delayed . Raping 14 nuns whose Belgian leader died . Meanwhile the Brits who had arranged all "that" were airlifting Sikhs , who match the Pashtun in valour anyday . Don't ask for corroboration , London is yet to award the 2 Victoria Crosses won on the trains as they imply refugee massacres could have been stopped .
we Turks are somewhat popular in the Subcontinent for some reason ı can't fathom and ı hear the issue of the convent come up regularly on why we don't deserve the brotherhood Pakistanis ascribe to us . Pakistan is weaker , there is too much a bloody history and they feel they have to attack , to be bad to survive . They wanted two squadrons of jets in 1965 , luckily our rejection was nulled by Sidewinder , the little hummer that could . Which enabled them to stand up to the larger Indian Air Force . Though 1971 was more like India and the the sight of USS Enterprise riding shotgun was the justification Delhi needed for going nuclear . Pakistanis felt to do likewise and Zia ul Haq had to suffer the schizoid divided personality issue when it comes to Turks , where one of the sides was buying stuff under American supervision . And the project of course was why the good old Anglosaxons had to destablize Pakistan and Pakistanis had to respond with the Taliban .
yeah , it is somehow all interwined from Belgium 1914 to Afganistan 2014 when NATO was supposed to be leaving . Of course it is all bogus , now that we have been allowed to bomb seperatists we are to be gratefully accepting the unavoidable idea that USA has the means to make deals for basing rights until 2024 . Starting from the day they started to treat locals somewhat nice , they wasted 6 years in country and Karzai naturally plays their game , considering he knows there have been investigations on whys and hows of the Taliban chemical warfare on girls' schools .
yes , there are documents that have seal of the British Goverment on them about the murderous acts of Germany and one of their authors was Toynbee , a big name whose conduct as a historian would allow his peers to measure the veracity of his work and he apparently declared long ago that he had lied for the purposes of the war . Yet the exactly similar work of the exactly same committee is why the world knows all about the Armenian sufferings of 1915 . Would have been solved easily , Goverment would accuse the bloodthirsty military , political wing of the seperatists would accept the fathers of their grandfathers were murderous thugs who had robbed , defiled , maimed , enslaved and killed helpless Armenians and it would be all rosy , no reperations would be paid . Yeah , indeed as if hundreds of billions of dollars were even important . The historians blame the military for not allowing full access to the archives . Don't bother lookin' , the invading Allies could not find nor even make up in the 1920s , so the locals should keep on inventin' locally .
must be giving the impression of a thickheaded moron who put nationalistic garbage above historical truth , but even the professional historians here would agree that ı was a very agreeable guy , if ı was to park an AT-AT across their streets .
no , Napoleon did not make it to Hungary .
nor the other established methods are that trustworthy . ı have it from my brother that my grandmother knew somebody that found an human finger in a bar of soap in Bulgaria in the years of WW2 . Was it so or was it transformed in time ? Certainly one would have expected the German quality control to improve between 1914 and 1940s .We know nothing about the current prank status of the thing .
not even direct eyewitness accounts could be totally reliable . My father saw it with his own eyes that Germans in WW2 had so many planes that they darkened the sun like clouds . But he was born in 1940 , and by the time he was big enough to remember the glory days of Luftwaffe would be over . They were more likely the Liberator boxes to Ploesti and in the remote mountain village the Turkish farmers and shepherds wouldn't be able to tell the difference . The Bulgarians lacked the means to engage and the tranquil skies would imply the formations to be German .
the perception then history is a perception and no biggie ; as ı am not the first one ever to note it . Politics require modification of the truth . Past or present make no difference , when future is to be somehow assured .
let members of this forum who find Creationist views out of tune with science be informed that a Turkish newspaper said a Turkish Creationist group was allowed to give a couple of lectures in Lackland USAF base in Texas . Now while ı believe Allah created the Universe and everthing in it with a purpose ı can't fathom and fate as ordered by Allah is certainity of everything in the end as we make our choices , ı don't believe in those guys . Not because France has allowed them to print despite opposition from evolution supporters ; ı understand the leader of the group is famous for the online insulting match he was involved with certain scientists . To the purposes of these posts , it is indeed the perceptions that greatly shape the present and they will be the basis of history in due course . A couple of pictures that show less than 10 uniformed soldiers listening to the speaker is the total amount of Muslim soldiers at the base ( 0.2% of the total ) according to USAF ; they are all Christians very interested to hear the great man , according to group's website . Ten , twenty years on they can be used as undeniable proof of any particular idea that will become accepted history in time . And totally at variance with each other .
one needs the complete story to avoid pitfalls , to remain truthful to truth . As such the group was a rich man's preserve where the chief recruitment method was the chance to have the daughters of the jet-set in ways described by the names of countries in Europe . Indeed when a news magazine seemingly exposed them , it concentrated on the favourite imam of the great guy who was really a celebrity in Istanbul for the way of a certain neighbour of ours that has got stuck with the reputation . Regarding the great guy , he is famous for the slick way he can be a staunch Kemalist while sitting on a throne with the Ottoman state seal on it . Let history then record that these are the guys America has decided to be the guys who know . Their explanation for 911 is that a fusion bomb was exploded under the World Trade Center and that's why the buildings went down in freefall to fill the now empty volume . Naturally by the Zionist elements in the United States Goverment .
lack of complete story only means an incomplete examination and conclusion . To wrap it up if one comes across somebody that demands something because historical anectodes seem to suggest he can build towers out of decapitated heads and the situation seems to require it somebody could prove his word by making a two to four men tent within the hour . The modern Mongolians are that blodthirsty ?
can't answer as am really occupied by the doubt whether the shovel ı lended to the neighbour is the one he brought back .
neither will ı attach much importance to my own suggestion why history is not exactly the real story . If you interpret physics or any other hard science according to your own interests , you might come to regret it . No amount of revolutionary ardour , financial splendour or social networking grandeur will make five pieces of fruits out of addition of two apples to two oranges .
interpretation of history on the hand is very open to interpretation . Is that an oxymoron ; am supposed to be good at them . And no regrets are likely to arise from fancy re-colouration in this field . Even when fiction of yesteryears can affect future like hell .
history is not reliable even with accepted methods . Sources , citations are number one requirement in any claim in the field and how trustworthy they are ?
to grease the mighty mobilization of the British power to crush the Kaiser's scum well meaning guys in London wrote graphic details of the German atrocies in Belgium . ı understand there were serious warcrimes to crush the resistance immediately to pre-empt British intervention by making it too late and meaningless by the surrender of the Belgian state . But Germans did not make soap out of civilians or raped the nuns .
fast forward to 1947 and the Empire upon which sun never sat was bankrupt in many ways forced on the by the inescapeable conclusion that Germans were too tough a nut to crack without incurring cracks and abrasions wrecking the hammer . The jewel of the crown had to go and the British officers bred up with the comforting idea that they were of a nation that was the grandmaster of divide and rule , needed to hide some leverage somewhere to come back . As the maps were drawn Kashmir was spotted .
of course there was some fiction of democracy , for those eligible . Fiction because maps were final , no challenges were to be accepted . The Nizam of Hyderabad was a Muslim , richest guy in the world and probably the most miserly , who wanted independence and denied on the account of the large Hindu majority . Some guy wanted to join Pakistan and pulled a gun on the official from Delhi , Mountbatten had to take it personally. Still the vegatarian official had to accept the feasts where he was fed with meat and champagne nonstop and flown back to Delhi in the personal plane of the Maharaja who was very much into acrobatic shows . India paid puke for Jodhpur .
kashmir was the reverse with its large Moslem majority and in Pakistan . Don't ask how . The Hindu leader was not stopped . Pakistanis were agitated , despite the 300 in the partition agreements they had received only three trains of military equipment , one with a shipment of bricks and condoms . They felt for an indirect approach and sent up the ferocious Pathans . Who somehow stopped short of the airfield, their primary target , because they were delayed . Raping 14 nuns whose Belgian leader died . Meanwhile the Brits who had arranged all "that" were airlifting Sikhs , who match the Pashtun in valour anyday . Don't ask for corroboration , London is yet to award the 2 Victoria Crosses won on the trains as they imply refugee massacres could have been stopped .
we Turks are somewhat popular in the Subcontinent for some reason ı can't fathom and ı hear the issue of the convent come up regularly on why we don't deserve the brotherhood Pakistanis ascribe to us . Pakistan is weaker , there is too much a bloody history and they feel they have to attack , to be bad to survive . They wanted two squadrons of jets in 1965 , luckily our rejection was nulled by Sidewinder , the little hummer that could . Which enabled them to stand up to the larger Indian Air Force . Though 1971 was more like India and the the sight of USS Enterprise riding shotgun was the justification Delhi needed for going nuclear . Pakistanis felt to do likewise and Zia ul Haq had to suffer the schizoid divided personality issue when it comes to Turks , where one of the sides was buying stuff under American supervision . And the project of course was why the good old Anglosaxons had to destablize Pakistan and Pakistanis had to respond with the Taliban .
yeah , it is somehow all interwined from Belgium 1914 to Afganistan 2014 when NATO was supposed to be leaving . Of course it is all bogus , now that we have been allowed to bomb seperatists we are to be gratefully accepting the unavoidable idea that USA has the means to make deals for basing rights until 2024 . Starting from the day they started to treat locals somewhat nice , they wasted 6 years in country and Karzai naturally plays their game , considering he knows there have been investigations on whys and hows of the Taliban chemical warfare on girls' schools .
yes , there are documents that have seal of the British Goverment on them about the murderous acts of Germany and one of their authors was Toynbee , a big name whose conduct as a historian would allow his peers to measure the veracity of his work and he apparently declared long ago that he had lied for the purposes of the war . Yet the exactly similar work of the exactly same committee is why the world knows all about the Armenian sufferings of 1915 . Would have been solved easily , Goverment would accuse the bloodthirsty military , political wing of the seperatists would accept the fathers of their grandfathers were murderous thugs who had robbed , defiled , maimed , enslaved and killed helpless Armenians and it would be all rosy , no reperations would be paid . Yeah , indeed as if hundreds of billions of dollars were even important . The historians blame the military for not allowing full access to the archives . Don't bother lookin' , the invading Allies could not find nor even make up in the 1920s , so the locals should keep on inventin' locally .
must be giving the impression of a thickheaded moron who put nationalistic garbage above historical truth , but even the professional historians here would agree that ı was a very agreeable guy , if ı was to park an AT-AT across their streets .
no , Napoleon did not make it to Hungary .
nor the other established methods are that trustworthy . ı have it from my brother that my grandmother knew somebody that found an human finger in a bar of soap in Bulgaria in the years of WW2 . Was it so or was it transformed in time ? Certainly one would have expected the German quality control to improve between 1914 and 1940s .We know nothing about the current prank status of the thing .
not even direct eyewitness accounts could be totally reliable . My father saw it with his own eyes that Germans in WW2 had so many planes that they darkened the sun like clouds . But he was born in 1940 , and by the time he was big enough to remember the glory days of Luftwaffe would be over . They were more likely the Liberator boxes to Ploesti and in the remote mountain village the Turkish farmers and shepherds wouldn't be able to tell the difference . The Bulgarians lacked the means to engage and the tranquil skies would imply the formations to be German .
the perception then history is a perception and no biggie ; as ı am not the first one ever to note it . Politics require modification of the truth . Past or present make no difference , when future is to be somehow assured .
let members of this forum who find Creationist views out of tune with science be informed that a Turkish newspaper said a Turkish Creationist group was allowed to give a couple of lectures in Lackland USAF base in Texas . Now while ı believe Allah created the Universe and everthing in it with a purpose ı can't fathom and fate as ordered by Allah is certainity of everything in the end as we make our choices , ı don't believe in those guys . Not because France has allowed them to print despite opposition from evolution supporters ; ı understand the leader of the group is famous for the online insulting match he was involved with certain scientists . To the purposes of these posts , it is indeed the perceptions that greatly shape the present and they will be the basis of history in due course . A couple of pictures that show less than 10 uniformed soldiers listening to the speaker is the total amount of Muslim soldiers at the base ( 0.2% of the total ) according to USAF ; they are all Christians very interested to hear the great man , according to group's website . Ten , twenty years on they can be used as undeniable proof of any particular idea that will become accepted history in time . And totally at variance with each other .
one needs the complete story to avoid pitfalls , to remain truthful to truth . As such the group was a rich man's preserve where the chief recruitment method was the chance to have the daughters of the jet-set in ways described by the names of countries in Europe . Indeed when a news magazine seemingly exposed them , it concentrated on the favourite imam of the great guy who was really a celebrity in Istanbul for the way of a certain neighbour of ours that has got stuck with the reputation . Regarding the great guy , he is famous for the slick way he can be a staunch Kemalist while sitting on a throne with the Ottoman state seal on it . Let history then record that these are the guys America has decided to be the guys who know . Their explanation for 911 is that a fusion bomb was exploded under the World Trade Center and that's why the buildings went down in freefall to fill the now empty volume . Naturally by the Zionist elements in the United States Goverment .
lack of complete story only means an incomplete examination and conclusion . To wrap it up if one comes across somebody that demands something because historical anectodes seem to suggest he can build towers out of decapitated heads and the situation seems to require it somebody could prove his word by making a two to four men tent within the hour . The modern Mongolians are that blodthirsty ?
can't answer as am really occupied by the doubt whether the shovel ı lended to the neighbour is the one he brought back .
christos200 said:
Where's the descendants of these all-conquering Mongolians then? Where's the Mongolian works of art and culture? Where's the Mongolian language? Hint: all in Mongolia. And if the Romans, Arabs, Chinese and 'other' (whatever that means
) invented a fictious 'Mongolian' plague to discredit their domestic rivals then that's their fault. Next you'll be telling me that you believe German hordes invaded Rome. mghani said:
Great arguement: they collapsed therefore the buildings just vanished?
mghani said:
Stop straw-manning me. The 'Mongols' of the Middle Ages are fictious constructs. We have ample archeological evidence of the Aztecs and Maya and nothing but unreliable testomony to back up the 'Mongol' hypothesis.
mghani said:
I'm a serious believer in the falsity of the Mongolian hypothesis like I'm a serious believer in the culpability of the Western 'Allies' in destroying Germany and bringing the United States into an unneccesary war in the service of Imperialism.
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